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[Damien Johnson]

Hi all,

Hope you are doing well. I come in peace and am looking for some friendly advice - will happily admit before you read any further that live pro audio is absolutely not an expertise of mine (as you will learn quickly). Any advice is much appreciated

After a career performing I'm getting to the point of moving over into running my own event production / AV company. I'm fortunate enough to be in a part of the world where the budgets are good and there is plenty of demand but this is the start of a new journey and I'm having to learn quickly. There are talented freelancing sound men that work with me on events and have recommended certain things to me but I would love some neutral advice here.

So far it's all been relatively straight forwards. For the last year I've built up a good stock of backline (I know far more about keyboards and guitars than speakers) and some small powered PA rigs - we mainly do weddings, small corporate events and private parties indoors to 60-120 people. I've primarily been using powered EV EKX 12" tops with EV EKX 15" subs which have been doing the job.

However, we're starting to attract quotes for larger events - nothing too big for now, but parties / weddings with 200 guests or so outdoors, so the EV's really aren't going to be loud enough.

I'm at a bit of an impasse here as to where to go next. I've got a budget of around £10-15k maximum and would like to make the right call. Would something like the QSC KW122 / KS118 rig be enough of an update (this is coming in at about £6-7k so would leave room to potentially get two sets for days when we work on multiple events) or is it a bit of a baby step from the EVs (I'm talking in terms of volume here but also in terms of quality)?

I've also come across the Nexo P12 / P18s. No idea if I'm comparing apples with oranges here! All in all what would your opinions be on the best powered rig for regular outdoor events to 200 people at this kind of price range?

One thing to note is, when receiving requests we're getting lots of bands asking for line arrays, and this is where my knowledge completely falls apart! I've just read through similar topics on this forum so I apologise if you've read all this before and rolling your eyes in boredom ! One benefit I see from potentially buying a line array is it would give us more scope to do larger events (500-1000 capacity gigs) in time, if and when they come, but are they entirely unsuitable for the 200 capacity gigs? I tend to have a team of 4 or so per event and we usually have plenty of time to set up.

I've seen the RCF HDL series and had wondered about potentially starting with 3 a side and buying as we go to upgrade (not sure on the thoughts based on the 6/10/20 options) plus a pair of 18" subs, but is that completely inappropriate for a 200 person capacity event? I've also seen the DAS audio Vantec range (never come across this brand so don't know anything about them - no idea if that is slanderous!) and the QSC Kla range so would be intrigued as to how they compare.

Having read through here I've seen comments that having a small line array (2/3 a side) isn't really a line array at all and much better flown, and that instead of doing so it would be better to get a standard set of speakers on poles with subs, as I do now. I can understand the logic completely but given a lot of competitors have them, and they're the most asked for on quotes, it's something I have to consider from a business point of view.

Lastly, if I did go the line array route, could someone talk me through the different in potential venue / capacity size based on the different sizes (for example, 5 a side of the RCF HDL 6-A vs 5 a side of the RCF HDL 10-A) would be suitable for X amount of people. Is it better to have X amount of the 6s if we're mainly doing the 200 capacity gigs, or would it be worth paying extra for the larger speakers to give us scope to do bigger gigs?

I have absolutely no idea if all of this is infuriating to read but thank you for any assistance you can offer.

[Caleb Dueck]

I've got a budget of around £10-15k maximum and would like to make the right call.

Having read through here I've seen comments that having a small line array (2/3 a side) isn't really a line array at all and much better flown, and that instead of doing so it would be better to get a standard set of speakers on poles with subs, as I do now. I can understand the logic completely but given a lot of competitors have them, and they're the most asked for on quotes, it's something I have to consider from a business point of view.

There are line arrays, baby line arrays, and fake line arrays (vertical arrays).  True line arrays, like d&b KSL and V series, are nowhere near your budget.  Baby line arrays need multiple boxes, and often the matching low-mid box, and when done well also aren't anywhere near your budget.  Fake line arrays, like VRX, KLA, etc - are IMHO a step down from solid trap boxes, and simply hang in a vertical line to fool the unwary. 

Yes, any line array purchase will require logistics - trucking, cabling, cases, power distribution, rigging hardware, lifts. 

Any option you go with - you'll need to raise your budget, likely by a significant amount. 

My opinion - go with something that performs well, and later on, IF you need an array because you're losing business - you'll have time to find out what will work best, give actual ROI, get trained/certified by the manufacturer, look for other companies to cross-rent from, etc.  And by then you'll have financining or savings setup to actually purchase what will make you money. 

I'd look at RCF TT+ line, like the TTL4A, maybe FBT.  The TW T24N is another option.  These can all go on poles, or be flown.  Danley may be an option, depending on what country you're in.  Any of these are a significant step up from the cheap QSC/JBL/EV/etc options. 

Subwoofers are going to be expensive no matter what.  This is where I'd look into Danley. 

[Doug Jane]

So you are working with professional sound guys who you know, but you would rather come on this forum for advice?
The people you are working with know exactly what you are doing, so trust them to give you advice.
And you dont need line arrays. people have done events with box pa's for years, and line arrays only suit certain venues, mostly outdoors.

[Damien Johnson]

So you are working with professional sound guys who you know, but you would rather come on this forum for advice?
The people you are working with know exactly what you are doing, so trust them to give you advice.
And you dont need line arrays. people have done events with box pa's for years, and line arrays only suit certain venues, mostly outdoors.

Indeed - there's a language barrier with my sound technicians, I'm working in Europe and I'm from the UK, and whilst we have a professional understanding I do struggle with the technical chat in their language, so it's good to get a bit more advice. Hope that's ok?

The gigs are mostly outdoors, but happy to receive any advice you may have.

[Damien Johnson]

There are line arrays, baby line arrays, and fake line arrays (vertical arrays).  True line arrays, like d&b KSL and V series, are nowhere near your budget.  Baby line arrays need multiple boxes, and often the matching low-mid box, and when done well also aren't anywhere near your budget.  Fake line arrays, like VRX, KLA, etc - are IMHO a step down from solid trap boxes, and simply hang in a vertical line to fool the unwary. 

Yes, any line array purchase will require logistics - trucking, cabling, cases, power distribution, rigging hardware, lifts. 

Any option you go with - you'll need to raise your budget, likely by a significant amount. 

My opinion - go with something that performs well, and later on, IF you need an array because you're losing business - you'll have time to find out what will work best, give actual ROI, get trained/certified by the manufacturer, look for other companies to cross-rent from, etc.  And by then you'll have financining or savings setup to actually purchase what will make you money. 

I'd look at RCF TT+ line, like the TTL4A, maybe FBT.  The TW T24N is another option.  These can all go on poles, or be flown.  Danley may be an option, depending on what country you're in.  Any of these are a significant step up from the cheap QSC/JBL/EV/etc options. 

Subwoofers are going to be expensive no matter what.  This is where I'd look into Danley.

That's useful, I'll check those out - thanks.

What is your opinion on the Nexo P series please? I hear great things about Nexo but would that still be underpowered for 150-200 capacity events?

[Alec Spence]

What is your opinion on the Nexo P series please? I hear great things about Nexo but would that still be underpowered for 150-200 capacity events?

Only you know what you're trying to achieve, SPL and coverage-wise.

You would just about squeak a P12 or P15 over L18 rig for your budget, but not the second rig.
You could also get a very tasty D&B Y7P over B6 rig.
Quite a few RCF TT options, too.
I was also very impressed by TW's T24n when an act bought it in on one occasion.  Less recognised in the UK, and less mainstream, but a highly capable system.

Rather than ask here, why not get demos of some of the above, or hire in, and see how you get on.

[Damien Johnson]

Only you know what you're trying to achieve, SPL and coverage-wise.

You would just about squeak a P12 or P15 over L18 rig for your budget, but not the second rig.
You could also get a very tasty D&B Y7P over B6 rig.
Quite a few RCF TT options, too.
I was also very impressed by TW's T24n when an act bought it in on one occasion.  Less recognised in the UK, and less mainstream, but a highly capable system.

Rather than ask here, why not get demos of some of the above, or hire in, and see how you get on.

Sure - I'll get some demos but thought I'd try here first for advice! That's what this place exists for, I thought! 

I'd have thought I would have been completely out priced for a D&B rig?

[Tim McCulloch]

Only you know what you're trying to achieve, SPL and coverage-wise.

You would just about squeak a P12 or P15 over L18 rig for your budget, but not the second rig.
You could also get a very tasty D&B Y7P over B6 rig.
Quite a few RCF TT options, too.
I was also very impressed by TW's T24n when an act bought it in on one occasion.  Less recognised in the UK, and less mainstream, but a highly capable system.

Rather than ask here, why not get demos of some of the above, or hire in, and see how you get on.

That d&b combo is my side fill rig, with M4 for wedges.  Love it, and I'm not the monitor guy...

[Brian Jojade]

For most smaller (non stadium) events, trap boxes will perform better than line arrays for a fraction of the cost. However, some customers are convinced that a line array is the only acceptable solution. As long as the client is willing to spend the money on the array, you almost have to be willing to oblige. If you don’t, they will look to the next provider. A big problem though is some providers are sending out line arrays at trap box prices. Makes it much harder to be profitable when your speakers are 5x more expensive and take 5x as long to deploy.

[Steve-White]

Indeed - there's a language barrier with my sound technicians, I'm working in Europe and I'm from the UK, and whilst we have a professional understanding I do struggle with the technical chat in their language, so it's good to get a bit more advice. Hope that's ok?

The gigs are mostly outdoors, but happy to receive any advice you may have.

Find some decent used gear.

[ProSoundWeb Community]