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[Rob Spence]

it was up and angled down

How high? What did you use to angle them?


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[Yoel Klein]

How high? What did you use to angle them?


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As I said, I was not doing this job, I was there as a guest and was surprised to find the Danley SM80's, which I was going to demo my self.

See the Pic.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k67b04d0q6ay1lb/2018-11-12%2021.40.32.jpg?dl=0

[Nick Andrews]

Nick!!
You nailed it! This is exactly what I'm trying to FIX! and suggesting to the big players in the community to ditch the JBL's with the T-bars... (oh, don't get me started now..) and the others with their Line Array, and ditch all the Fill speakers, as a matter of fact, they are still not happy, but they lack to understanding the real reason it sounds like trash!

I had a meeting with the "Decision makers" of those big events and told them about using just 2 Danley tops, -Just 2!
I want to demonstrate it to them, but I'm afraid to do it with 2 SM80's...  Because at the one wedding it was used by a freind of mine, (see the clip in the beginning of this thread) they demanded 'Fill speakers', and up came 2 RCF's, which is not bad on its own, but it was totally out of sync with the SM80's in literally every aspect!

So (with permission) I turned off the RCF's' and pushed the SM80's fader up, but I was scared to drive it with so much Watts, when it's only rated for 400 watts!  I did not feel comfortable riding the fader up that high with those cheap China amps as you can see on the clip, the TH118 was using 2 channels in bridge mode and already hitting RED, and the SM80's almost at full power!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3i020qjjfii2dp/2018-11-12%2022.20.02.mov?dl=0

Therefore I thought about the SH46! bringing to the job 2 SH46's could impact their minds to use ONLY THOSE 2 BOXES! plus subs of course.

So here every one is telling me that the SM80 is overly enough! , so Nick,  what is YOUR opinon about the SM80's?

P.s. I Edited this post to add another clip fro the other end of the hall, (RCF's are in between on one side as fills) note the Disastor of a sound!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdl4hz1xme9bb55/2018-11-12%2020.55.46.mov?dl=0

I think the sm80 and honestly all of the danley stuff is fantastic, It is a tool, just like any other job you use specific tools for specific situations at hand. I wouldn't use a hammer to spackle a hole in the wall  I'm sure you know what I mean.

Unfortunately there is no single solution if you will be mobile in this business, I have wide dispersion and narrow dispersion boxes in my inventory to account for that.  If you are in the same room every time, then we can discuss a consistent solution for that.

I would say an average wedding you'll be doing you'll want about 110 to 120 degrees of horizontal coverage (hard to get true performance here as most specs lie, and boxes can get beamy), with the box angled down at the crowd for some pattern control off the ceiling.

Everyone thought I was crazy when i brought my NXL24a columns stacked 2 per side on top of each other on top of a 2x18 sub to these jobs, No one thought it would work, and for sure in some situations it isn't the right tool. But for alot of the jobs, it's incredible!

SM80 has some serious power and clarity, the sh46 as well, obviously the pattern is the concern there.

Also as Rob said , how was the system being processed? x32 matrices to the sanway amps?


btw it looks like they are getting ready maybe for a mitzvah tantz in the last picture ? I try to run away as fast as possible when this is happening ! lol

[Jeff Lelko]

So I’m confused.  You came upon some SM80s at a wedding, then tested 2 SM80s and a TH118 which you found to be inadequate, and then used more SM80s at another gig?  If true, I would think by now you should have a decent idea of how these speakers sound and perform.  Short of the brief debate about horns I’m not sure what the end goal of this discussion is now that it’s 5 pages in.  Are you looking to buy a system?

[Yoel Klein]

I think the sm80 and honestly all of the danley stuff is fantastic, It is a tool, just like any other job you use specific tools for specific situations at hand. I wouldn't use a hammer to spackle a hole in the wall  I'm sure you know what I mean.

Unfortunately there is no single solution if you will be mobile in this business, I have wide dispersion and narrow dispersion boxes in my inventory to account for that.  If you are in the same room every time, then we can discuss a consistent solution for that.

I would say an average wedding you'll be doing you'll want about 110 to 120 degrees of horizontal coverage, with the box angled down at the crowd for some pattern control off the ceiling.

Everyone thought I was crazy when i brought my NXL24a columns stacked 2 per side on top of each other on top of a 2x18 sub to these jobs, No one thought it would work, and for sure in some situations it isn't the right tool. But for alot of the jobs, it's incredible!

SM80 has some serious power and clarity, the sh46 as well, obviously the pattern is the concern there.

Also as Rob said , how was the system being processed? x32 matrices to the sanway amps?

It was using the (Horrible quality) x32. right down to the amp.

So, you do agree that pattern control is key, so, therefore, I was thinking of the SH46 sideways...
In the town of Monroe the Big Shul, was covered by 2 J6's (tops only) those people need that kind of power!
and at the night of a celebration around a huge fire and a crowd of thousands of participant, it was covered with 2 J1's, and It was not enough! 2 Danley engineers actually came down by airplane to investigate the fact that 2 J1's was not good enough... and they concluded to add the 2 J6's in addition to the J1.

The guy who did that job is a member here, and I invite him to post pictures of it!   

[Nick Andrews]

It was using the (Horrible quality) x32. right down to the amp.

So, you do agree that pattern control is key, so, therefore, I was thinking of the SH46 sideways...
In the town of Monroe the Big Shul, was covered by 2 J6's (tops only) those people need that kind of power!
and at the night of a celebration around a huge fire and a crowd of thousands of participant, it was covered with 2 J1's, and It was not enough! 2 Danley engineers actually came down by airplane to investigate the fact that 2 J1's was not good enough... and they concluded to add the 2 J6's in addition to the J1.

The guy who did that job is a member here, and I invite him to post pictures of it!

Farkas right ? I remember seeing pics and hearing about it actually, crazy!

[Yoel Klein]

So I’m confused.  You came upon some SM80s at a wedding, then tested 2 SM80s and a TH118 which you found to be inadequate, and then used more SM80s at another gig?  If true, I would think by now you should have a decent idea of how these speakers sound and perform.  Short of the brief debate about horns I’m not sure what the end goal of this discussion is now that it’s 5 pages in.  Are you looking to buy a system?

Let me clean it up.
As I was about to borrow and test the SM80's, I walked in at a wedding and found it was being used there. I asked him to please turn off the RCF's he used as fills, so I can better hear the SM80, that was the only night I was in physical contact with the SM80 and the Th118. from there I want to research more about it. I came to the conclusion that I want to test the SH46 before I make a decision. My decision to buy a Danley system and amp will surely be followed by others as well.
So they are all relying on and upon my research.

Like I did with all the speakers I recommend in our community, I have to be confident in it. then I can advise others to upgrade.

[Yoel Klein]

Farkas right ? I remember seeing pics and hearing about it actually, crazy!

Yep! Mr. Farkas!
I believe Mr, Farkas should go work at Danley's engineering team... lol
 

[Stephen Kirby]

A couple of things.

The SM80 horn is deeper than 6" depending on the frequency.  The Senergy patent is to create a horn loaded source with all the bandpasses merged into an apparent coincident source.  A coax speaker like the one in an SM80 in a horn does exactly that by using the LF cone as part of the HF horn loading.  Thus the HF has something like 12" or more of horn (I'm not really sure about the internal phase plug and transition to the cone on that model driver).

I noted that Yoel said that the system he heard was being driven by low grade amplification with the crossover apparently being done from the output processing of an X32.  No way to tell if anything like the Danley processing was done there.  And no way to know if the speakers were being utilized anywhere near their capabilities.

I think he should still arrange a demo in the venue with a proper dealer of a correctly processed and amplified rig.  Many folks think of "punch" as mid bass.  Many DJ systems have extra 15" boxes specifically for that 80-200 bandpass.  As pointed out, using a single sub away from the SM80s isn't going to make as much of an impression in this range as time aligned separate stacks.  On sticks, the only way of down tilting SM80s that I know of are Nimrod's tilters.  They're too heavy for the K&M ones.

I did a briefcase gig once for an Andalusian group.  The SPL the audience wanted, and the stage SPLs expected by the musicians from acoustic instruments, was way beyond what was rented.  It was something like 110A slow on stage and they were giving me the hairy eyeball all night!  I could have really used an SM80 over TH118 system there.  Not to mention 10 good wedges. 

[Rob Spence]

A couple of things.

The SM80 horn is deeper than 6" depending on the frequency.  The Senergy patent is to create a horn loaded source with all the bandpasses merged into an apparent coincident source.  A coax speaker like the one in an SM80 in a horn does exactly that by using the LF cone as part of the HF horn loading.  Thus the HF has something like 12" or more of horn (I'm not really sure about the internal phase plug and transition to the cone on that model driver).

I noted that Yoel said that the system he heard was being driven by low grade amplification with the crossover apparently being done from the output processing of an X32.  No way to tell if anything like the Danley processing was done there.  And no way to know if the speakers were being utilized anywhere near their capabilities.

I think he should still arrange a demo in the venue with a proper dealer of a correctly processed and amplified rig.  Many folks think of "punch" as mid bass.  Many DJ systems have extra 15" boxes specifically for that 80-200 bandpass.  As pointed out, using a single sub away from the SM80s isn't going to make as much of an impression in this range as time aligned separate stacks.  On sticks, the only way of down tilting SM80s that I know of are Nimrod's tilters.  They're too heavy for the K&M ones.

I did a briefcase gig once for an Andalusian group.  The SPL the audience wanted, and the stage SPLs expected by the musicians from acoustic instruments, was way beyond what was rented.  It was something like 110A slow on stage and they were giving me the hairy eyeball all night!  I could have really used an SM80 over TH118 system there.  Not to mention 10 good wedges. 

The photo referenced earlier had Nimrod’s tilters.



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