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[Mac Kerr]

We can speculate all day long about what happened

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Mac

[Randy Pence]

And who are they going to send?  The person they have hired to oversee their touring audio-who by the way-has a vested interst in making the touring sound system sounds the best? Even if they try to make a good faith unbiased judgement that's a tough order.  In some situations (perhaps 1-2% of the venues?) it might be very obvious-but is it worth it for those?

Is it worth it? Well, the discussion in this thread is not how good the show sounded..

The money is there.  Send someone trusted. Could be a producer. Could be someone who they have a good personal relationship with and is respected, just not applicable to their sound. Send a family member, a friend.  Go themselves? Really, just send anyone besides someone from the production or promotion companies to play a few tracks and record the results. Tens of thousands of people paying good money and there is no way to advance the show because some trucks will be carrying speakers?

[Tom Roche]

Related... re sound in indoor arenas: I swore off attending concerts in large indoor arenas about 20 years ago after having so many bad experiences.  Then my girlfriend surprised me with tickets to see the Eagles in a large indoor arena.  This was on their last tour a few months before Glenn Frey passed.  I have no idea if it was a tour or house system; all I know is that it was superb.  I never thought it could sound that good.  It was spiritual. 

[Justice C. Bigler]

And who are they going to send?  The person they have hired to oversee their touring audio-who by the way-has a vested interst in making the touring sound system sounds the best? Even if they try to make a good faith unbiased judgement that's a tough order.  In some situations (perhaps 1-2% of the venues?) it might be very obvious-but is it worth it for those?

Yes. You send an "Advance Tech". That's what their job is, to do a site visit and determine what the needs of the show are, if any of the in house systems are usable and to what degree. They confer with the touring head and make those decisions based on what needs to be done. It's really not that hard, nor is it that expensive. Some airfare and a hotel room for a night or two. Some guys even really like doing the advance work because get they get to travel a few days and then go home for a week or two between shows and don't have to be living on the road, eating catering and sleeping on a bus every night for 6 to 24 months at a time.

[Keith Broughton]

So in all how bad are the acoustics of the building? Was there any acoustic remediation done at all? Or were you expected to fix everything with electronics?

It is my understanding that there was acoustic treatment included in the design but it has not been installed at this time.

[Thomas Lamb]

It is my understanding that there was acoustic treatment included in the design but it has not been installed at this time.

👎🏼

[brian maddox]

Yes. You send an "Advance Tech". That's what their job is, to do a site visit and determine what the needs of the show are, if any of the in house systems are usable and to what degree. They confer with the touring head and make those decisions based on what needs to be done. It's really not that hard, nor is it that expensive. Some airfare and a hotel room for a night or two. Some guys even really like doing the advance work because get they get to travel a few days and then go home for a week or two between shows and don't have to be living on the road, eating catering and sleeping on a bus every night for 6 to 24 months at a time.

yup.

I'd be fine doing this kind of thing.  And i'm sure there's plenty of other grey-haired but not dead yet guys out there that would be just as happy to do it as well.  For a tour of the magnitude we're talking about it'd be a tiny expense.

There's plenty of guys out there with the experience and knowledge to do this kind of thing.  But the real issue is trust.  They would have to be someone that the tour audio guys REALLY trust, and most of them barely have a stable of trusted techs large enough to fill all the normal touring positions.  As usual, this problem isn't really a practical one, it's a human one....

[Spenser Hamilton]

yup.

I'd be fine doing this kind of thing.  And i'm sure there's plenty of other grey-haired but not dead yet guys out there that would be just as happy to do it as well.  For a tour of the magnitude we're talking about it'd be a tiny expense.

There's plenty of guys out there with the experience and knowledge to do this kind of thing.  But the real issue is trust.  They would have to be someone that the tour audio guys REALLY trust, and most of them barely have a stable of trusted techs large enough to fill all the normal touring positions.  As usual, this problem isn't really a practical one, it's a human one....

And what happens when the advance guy says the rig is fine, but on show day that doesn't end up being the case (which could be due to any number of factors).

I have a hard time faulting Clair for wanting to use their own rig.

[brian maddox]

And what happens when the advance guy says the rig is fine, but on show day that doesn't end up being the case (which could be due to any number of factors).

I have a hard time faulting Clair for wanting to use their own rig.

Well, in practice i don't think that it would be a 'use the house rig' vs. 'use the touring rig'.  It would be more of a scouting expedition to see what the problem areas of the venue were and whether any of the house system was already well suited to solve some of those issues.  It's also a way to introduce the tour to the venue staff, which can help smooth a LOT of things later on.

But, the bottom line is that the advance guy/girl has to know their stuff and the touring guy/girl needs to already have a trust relationship with that person.  I think the issue is finding qualified people who would want to do this kind of job and who also already have those relationships....

[Justice C. Bigler]

And what happens when the advance guy says the rig is fine, but on show day that doesn't end up being the case (which could be due to any number of factors).

I have a hard time faulting Clair for wanting to use their own rig.

Then he's the one who made the wrong decision, or (like almost all touring shows) they failed to advance their show with the house properly. Making the correct determination about how to load in, load out, and what of the house stuff to use is the job of the advance tech and/or the head of that department for the tour.


Case in point: Clair used all their own rig, and by many hundreds of documents accounts, it sounded like shit. Who's fault is that? Clearly Clair is a bunch of cowards and are not going to man up and take the blame for making the wrong decision and offer refunds out of their cut to all of the people who were disappointed by the experience they had. IF those people get refunds, it will come out of the house's cut--which isn't right because it wasn't their wrong decision. It was the wrong decision of the touring company/staff, i.e. Clair Global.

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