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[Kevin Flaherty]

Hi folks,

Need some expert advice, as I cannot find a product that will meet my needs!

My equipment:
- ADJ Par 64 LED fixtures, Chauvet MiniLED Strip
- Chauvet Obey 40 Controller
- Behringer FCB-1010 MIDI Foot Controller

The Obey will only respond to MIDI NOTE ON and OFF messages, for the purposes of changing scenes and chases.  There seems to be no capability to control Fade Time, which is something I would like.  Even using the controller directly, changing from Scene to Scene (using the Scene buttons across the top of the controller), there seems to be no capability to use the "Fade Time" slider so that the change between scenes will have a fade.  Everything realtime seems abrupt only.

This is for live performance (band).  So tempos are never exactly the same.  For that reason, chases are not really good for the purpose.  My sax player uses the Behringer foot controller (connected via midi to the Obey) to change scenes in real time, and that's really how we want to continue to do it.  But we would like to apply some more gentle transition between scene changes.  The Behringer FCB1010 has two foot expression pedals that can send a midi controller parameter value range - meaning that you can tilt the pedal up and down to send an "increasing" value.  Perfect for controlling fade time in realtime, if the controller would accept more robust midi information than just note on/off.

As I say, in a live music scenario, going software or hard-time-based chases is not workable.

Does anyone know whether a DMX controller is out there that can handle what I'm describing?  I can't find one...

Thanks!
Kevin

[Dan Reavey]

There seems to be no capability to control Fade Time, which is something I would like.  Even using the controller directly, changing from Scene to Scene (using the Scene buttons across the top of the controller), there seems to be no capability to use the "Fade Time" slider so that the change between scenes will have a fade.  Everything realtime seems abrupt only.

Hi
This is from P29 of the Obey 40 manual:

'Scene Playback - scenes can be triggered manually and automatically with timing set by the <Speed Time> and <Fade Time> faders, the <Tap Sync/Display> button, or by music.'

Should work by otherwise there would be no point in having a fade slider on the board.
Regarding foot control, seems like all low cost DMX controllers, which all seems to be similar products under different brand names, are externally
controlled by midi note only.

The fade slider works on my Transcension DC-1224 Scene Setter but the fade time can't be programmed into the scene or chase, which I'd like.
The Showtec SC-1224, which looks like the successor to mine has programmable speed and fade time.
Hope this helps.

[Kevin Flaherty]

Hi
This is from P29 of the Obey 40 manual:

'Scene Playback - scenes can be triggered manually and automatically with timing set by the <Speed Time> and <Fade Time> faders, the <Tap Sync/Display> button, or by music.'

Should work by otherwise there would be no point in having a fade slider on the board.
Regarding foot control, seems like all low cost DMX controllers, which all seems to be similar products under different brand names, are externally
controlled by midi note only.

The fade slider works on my Transcension DC-1224 Scene Setter but the fade time can't be programmed into the scene or chase, which I'd like.
The Showtec SC-1224, which looks like the successor to mine has programmable speed and fade time.
Hope this helps.

Thanks Dan.  Unfortunately, what you're quoting in the Obey 40 manual, as to how it actually works, does not fit my problem.

When the manual says that fade time (and speed) can be applied manually and automatically, they mean that when playing back a chase, the scene changes within that chase will either apply fade and speed change 1) as set in the chase definition, or 2) per manual changes to the fade and speed sliders while a chase is playing back.  A chase, however, automatically advances through the scenes you define, according to these faders or the values you set.  This does not work for a live performance situation, where tempos are never exactly the same, and you want to make the scene changes happen on the fly.

What I am asking is whether anyone knows if there is a hardware based DMX controller that will allow the manual setting of the fade slider to be taken into account when manually changing from Scene (x) to Scene (y) - in the case of the Obey 40, using the Scene buttons across the top of the unit.  Even taking MIDI out of the question for a moment, the Obey 40 does not do this.  Even in chases, if I manually trigger Chase 1 and then manually trigger Chase 2, the change does not take into account the physical setting of the fade time slider.  It just changes abruptly to Chase 2.

What I'm trying to get to is to be able to adjust the fade time, say for a ballad.  Sudden on/off type changes from scene to scene spoils the mood, to say it kindly.

Thanks for your help! 
Kevin

[Dan Reavey]

Thanks Dan.  Unfortunately, what you're quoting in the Obey 40 manual, as to how it actually works, does not fit my problem.

When the manual says that fade time (and speed) can be applied manually and automatically, they mean that when playing back a chase, the scene changes within that chase will either apply fade and speed change 1) as set in the chase definition, or 2) per manual changes to the fade and speed sliders while a chase is playing back.  A chase, however, automatically advances through the scenes you define, according to these faders or the values you set.  This does not work for a live performance situation, where tempos are never exactly the same, and you want to make the scene changes happen on the fly.

What I am asking is whether anyone knows if there is a hardware based DMX controller that will allow the manual setting of the fade slider to be taken into account when manually changing from Scene (x) to Scene (y) - in the case of the Obey 40, using the Scene buttons across the top of the unit.  Even taking MIDI out of the question for a moment, the Obey 40 does not do this.  Even in chases, if I manually trigger Chase 1 and then manually trigger Chase 2, the change does not take into account the physical setting of the fade time slider.  It just changes abruptly to Chase 2.

What I'm trying to get to is to be able to adjust the fade time, say for a ballad.  Sudden on/off type changes from scene to scene spoils the mood, to say it kindly.

Thanks for your help! 
Kevin

That's ok.
I see it now.
Fader explanation from the manual:
'Fader that adjusts the playback fade time—the time of the change between each step of the chase.'
Fade time only affects scenes if they're part of a chase.

My Transcension Scene Setter can certainly do it.
http://www.djanddiscostuff.com/lighting-c1/lighting-control-c5/dmx-c116/scene-setter-dc-1224-dmx-controller-p3272/s3433?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=transcension-scene-setter-dc-1224-dmx-controller&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CIKerJnHl9ACFWkz0wodLSMNmg

The scenes are activated using the lower row of sliders and they fade in according to the fade slider position.
Setting ranges from 10min to .2 sec.

Another useful feature is 'Show Mode' which is activated when the speed slider is at the lowest position.
If you have a 'Chase' rather than a 'Scene' saved to one of the sliders, using 'Show Mode' you can
step through each scene manually using the 'Step' button. Each scene will fade in at the rate set by the fade slider.
The 'Step' function amongst many others, can be triggered by midi.

[Kevin Flaherty]

That's ok.
I see it now.
Fader explanation from the manual:
'Fader that adjusts the playback fade time—the time of the change between each step of the chase.'
Fade time only affects scenes if they're part of a chase.

My Transcension Scene Setter can certainly do it.
http://www.djanddiscostuff.com/lighting-c1/lighting-control-c5/dmx-c116/scene-setter-dc-1224-dmx-controller-p3272/s3433?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=transcension-scene-setter-dc-1224-dmx-controller&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CIKerJnHl9ACFWkz0wodLSMNmg

The scenes are activated using the lower row of sliders and they fade in according to the fade slider position.
Setting ranges from 10min to .2 sec.

Another useful feature is 'Show Mode' which is activated when the speed slider is at the lowest position.
If you have a 'Chase' rather than a 'Scene' saved to one of the sliders, using 'Show Mode' you can
step through each scene manually using the 'Step' button. Each scene will fade in at the rate set by the fade slider.
The 'Step' function amongst many others, can be triggered by midi.

Thanks Dan!  This sounds exactly like what I am looking for.  I was only able to find the SceneSetter available in the UK.  (I'm in the US).  I did find an Elation StageSetter... I wonder if that's the US-targeted version of the product you have.... - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1039679&gclid=CjwKEAiA6YDBBRDwtpTQnYzx5lASJAC57ObMFny4T8hB4IdNU3KZsd1I3mYgIyY_0E42F4qrFElQFhoCfpLw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details

I might reach out to Elation directly and ask.

I really appreciate your help getting me pointed in the right direction!

Regards,
Kevin

[Dan Reavey]

Thanks Dan!  This sounds exactly like what I am looking for.  I was only able to find the SceneSetter available in the UK.  (I'm in the US).  I did find an Elation StageSetter... I wonder if that's the US-targeted version of the product you have.... - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1039679&gclid=CjwKEAiA6YDBBRDwtpTQnYzx5lASJAC57ObMFny4T8hB4IdNU3KZsd1I3mYgIyY_0E42F4qrFElQFhoCfpLw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details

I might reach out to Elation directly and ask.

I really appreciate your help getting me pointed in the right direction!

Regards,
Kevin

That's ok.
That's basically the same and it may have programmable fade.
This is the ADJ Scene Setter 24 which is identical layout to mine.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Setter-Channel-Conventional-Controller/dp/B00075Q5HK/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1478563634&sr=8-16&keywords=elation+dmx+controller

Hope it works out ok.

[Kevin Flaherty]

That's ok.
That's basically the same and it may have programmable fade.
This is the ADJ Scene Setter 24 which is identical layout to mine.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Setter-Channel-Conventional-Controller/dp/B00075Q5HK/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1478563634&sr=8-16&keywords=elation+dmx+controller

Hope it works out ok.

Hi Dan,

Sorry to keep bugging you!  I have been looking into these Scene Setter units, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on color mixing.  My lights are LED RGB, multi channel DMX.  Usually, the controllers I use have selection buttons for a fixture, based on the fixutre's 1st DMX address, and then faders are used to set the remaining DMX values for the fixture (one for blue, one for red and so on, and some fixtures have other features such as strobe, which are set with the faders, controlling the appropriate DMX channel for the fixture in question.

So far, all I've seen on the Scene Setters is the ability to fade/crossfade the fixture.  Do these boards have color mixing/multiple channel fixture support?

Thanks again,
Kevin

[Dan Reavey]

Hi Dan,

Sorry to keep bugging you!  I have been looking into these Scene Setter units, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on color mixing.  My lights are LED RGB, multi channel DMX.  Usually, the controllers I use have selection buttons for a fixture, based on the fixutre's 1st DMX address, and then faders are used to set the remaining DMX values for the fixture (one for blue, one for red and so on, and some fixtures have other features such as strobe, which are set with the faders, controlling the appropriate DMX channel for the fixture in question.

So far, all I've seen on the Scene Setters is the ability to fade/crossfade the fixture.  Do these boards have color mixing/multiple channel fixture support?

Thanks again,
Kevin

Hi Kevin
Rather than fixture buttons, the Scene Setter uses the 24 sliders fixed at channels 1-24 so you don't actually select fixtures. You set their channels.

It has multiple channel fixture support as it has 24 channels. If you use say 4 Par 64 LEDs each using 7 different channels each then you'll run out of channels.
For band use though, I have my 4 ADJ MegaPar Profiles all using the same channels as they're for flood/wash use.

For instance, for RGB colour mixing using 4 Par64 LEDs on separate channels:
Set each light to 3 mode DMX
LED 1 set start address to channel 1
LED 2   start address  channel 4
LED 3.  start address  channel 7
LED 4   start address. channel 10

Then set the Scene Setter to 1-24 single mode and use the numbered sliders to colour mix the lights. Once in record mode,
you then press record to record up to 99 steps.

I have:
2 NJD Spectres in 3 channel mode both occupying channels 2,3,4.
4 ADJ Mega Par Profiles all on channels 5-7 or 5-11 if I use 7 channel mode.
One thing I have noticed is that when triggering the auto modes via midi when the LED's are set to 6 or 7 mode DMX, the effects
don't work properly.
They have to be triggered from the desk as the full DMX values are then output.

[Kevin Flaherty]

Hi Kevin
Rather than fixture buttons, the Scene Setter uses the 24 sliders fixed at channels 1-24 so you don't actually select fixtures. You set their channels.

It has multiple channel fixture support as it has 24 channels. If you use say 4 Par 64 LEDs each using 7 different channels each then you'll run out of channels.
For band use though, I have my 4 ADJ MegaPar Profiles all using the same channels as they're for flood/wash use.

For instance, for RGB colour mixing using 4 Par64 LEDs on separate channels:
Set each light to 3 mode DMX
LED 1 set start address to channel 1
LED 2   start address  channel 4
LED 3.  start address  channel 7
LED 4   start address. channel 10

Then set the Scene Setter to 1-24 single mode and use the numbered sliders to colour mix the lights. Once in record mode,
you then press record to record up to 99 steps.

I have:
2 NJD Spectres in 3 channel mode both occupying channels 2,3,4.
4 ADJ Mega Par Profiles all on channels 5-7 or 5-11 if I use 7 channel mode.
One thing I have noticed is that when triggering the auto modes via midi when the LED's are set to 6 or 7 mode DMX, the effects
don't work properly.
They have to be triggered from the desk as the full DMX values are then output.

Excellent - thank you so much, Dan!  This looks like the way to go.

Regs,
Kevin

[Dan Reavey]

Excellent - thank you so much, Dan!  This looks like the way to go.

Regs,
Kevin

Cool! No probs.
Dan

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