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[Robert Brock]

I'm figuring audio with a crest value of probably 12db, since I'll probably be using a little buss compression.  With rock music using that spec, how loud do I need to be for a venue the size I just listed?  People giving me suggestions on speakers is great, but I also want to know the math/ science behind the choices so I can make informed desicsions on my own if the parameters change.

I'm trying to learn.....  I know there are people here that can get a gig like this and know immediately what equipment they want to use and how well it will work.  I'm trying to get to that point.... understanding what I need to accomplish and how to use the specs or whatever to figure out how to get there.

I'm trying to avoid the dreaded situation where I set everything up and then realize (too late) that it's not loud enough for the environment that I am in.  I don't just want to thbrow money at it and get way too much rig.... I want to understand how to figure this stuff out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

So then can you give me specifics of what I should be shooting for given a rock band in an outdoor venue roughly 50ft wide by 100ft deep.  Please take no offense to this, but just telling me I'm wrong isn't really helping...

Channeling Ivan...it depends.

Rather than guessing according to the minimal information provided you will likely be informed bit by bit of the relevant info required.  Internet ping-pong takes a while, so you'll have to endure a long time-line in learning what basics apply.  Best is to find an experienced sound person in your area, hire them for a couple of gigs and get schooled on-site for your SPECIFIC requirements.

Such things as deployment, power/processing and basic live mix techniques will all come into play.  Compromises WILL have to be made and applying them to best effect is not something you can get quickly and free over the Nintershnet.

Again, the best way to learn is from a live teacher.  HIRE HELP and pay attention.  If you're going to do it as a business you don't want your clients to suffer through the steep learning curve ahead of you.  Any rep you get starts with day one.

Don't forget the liability insurance...

Edit:  simultaneous post

Get your speakers up high, point them down at the audience.  This will even out the SPL over the area a good bit.  You'll find this difficult with the speakers you have, but scaffolding is helpful.   With your horns 7' in the air pointing straight out you'll have it hot up front..which may be OK or not so much.  The sad fact is you'll only get your "rock level" sound out to about 50' even if you elevate the speakers and aim them at the 50' median.

Forget mix compression as a way to make it louder.  You'll lose dynamics and overall headroom.  This ain't the studio.

[Robert Brock]

I can appreciate what your saying about working with an experienced sound guy... that's probably good advice.  In my situation, running the system is not really the problem.  I'm basically confused on how much/what kind of speakers to bring.  maybe I could phrase the question differently:

A client asks you to provide sound for a rock show at a wide open outdoor event.  the coverage area is 50' wide by 100' deep.  what are you going to bring and why?

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I can appreciate what your saying about working with an experienced sound guy... that's probably good advice.  In my situation, running the system is not really the problem.  I'm basically confused on how much/what kind of speakers to bring.  maybe I could phrase the question differently:

A client asks you to provide sound for a rock show at a wide open outdoor event.  the coverage area is 50' wide by 100' deep.  what are you going to bring and why?

Too many variables and a whole lot of undefinable subjective terminology.

What SPL over how much of the area?  Where does it have to be loud?  Do you need the same SPL over the entire area?  What else is making noise in the are?  Heavy highway traffic?  Carnival rides?  Other stages?

Once you decide which larger system you're going to rent (yours won't do it mostly because it's basically an indoor system) will you have enough power on site to run the rig?

A WAG  given your description of your gear would be that you need something flyable with 2x-3x the output you'll get with your no-name traps.

Sorry, but if you want to use what you have, set your mix position 50' out and take your 4 extra tops 2/side in line with the stage mains, set up two more sections of scaffolding at 55-60' and run delay stacks to un-wimp the sound at the back.

Or get the presenter to move the stage to the side so it'll be 50' deep and 100' wide.  Then you'll stand a chance.

[Robert Brock]

Ok, so I've pretty much moved on from the speakers that I currently have.  I'm looking toward what I should be getting.  The 100ft deep venue is probably pretty extreme, its more likely in the 50-60ft range.  I would say that people at that distance would not be expecting ear splitting levels.  with the types of events I'm talking about, flying cabs is not an option.  It needs to be more like this video an earlier poster put up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cIUeaIIpcU

This appears to be a much larger coverage area than what i am referring to.  What i am looking to do is a configuration similar to what I posted originally, but with higher output speakers?, between 2 and 4 a side.  Background noise will be limited to basically what people are capable of making---- no rides or heavy traffic.

I know clients don't generally know technical aspects of sound, they are relying on the sound company to know.  so when presented with a requirement like I laid out above---- rock bands-50x50 coverage area-- ground stacks only--- what would be your go to system.  Im trying to get ideas of what people would use with these constraints so I know in what direction I should be looking as far as upgrading my equipment.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

If you're going to keep changing the requirements this is a waste of time.  You'll do what you'll do.

Good luck, BE INSURED FOR LIABILITY. To do less is criminal.

[Robert Brock]

sorry for wasting your time, you are obviously very busy and important.  I do have insurance, by the way.

[Ivan Beaver]

maybe I could phrase the question differently:

A client asks you to provide sound for a rock show at a wide open outdoor event.  the coverage area is 50' wide by 100' deep.  what are you going to bring and why?

A system for AC/DC for that size is quite different than a system for the "local rock band down the street at their first gig".

Also the budget is very different.

Without a budget as a "target", it is easy to suggest an overkill system.  But that may not be realistic for you or your client.

What are they willing to spend for the show?

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

sorry for wasting your time, you are obviously very busy and important.  I do have insurance, by the way.

Event liability or just your equipment? 

Is all your AC cabling event rated?

Do you know how to check the power for safe operation?  You're dealing with peoples lives here.

[Robert Brock]

Id like to get 2 or 4 tops with a budget of around $5000-$6000.

I don't mean to change the requirements--- its just that with the foldout stage you cant hang anything. After my post about 100 ft, i thought a bit more about it.... the stage was 28 feet wide at the gig that i wasn't quite loud enough.  the crowd wasn't 4 stage-widths away from it... so i revised it to 50-60 ft. which is more representative of what I'm trying to prepare for.

I believe my subs are loud enough, that didn't seem to be much of a problem.  what I'm getting at is, for instance, the 2-12 ev cabs I put a link up for earlier--- those I'm expecting to be possibly twice as loud as the cabs I currently have.  If I were to use 2 a side, either splayed properly to reduce interference, or stacked (as someone mentioned) with the top one upside down, does it appear that I may be loud enough for my requirement?  I understand the concept of raising the cabs and pointing downward as a way of attempting to equalize the distance between the front and the back--- so i may be able to stand mount them somehow---I have the ability/resources to make custom stands if need be.  I could probably get the horns 10-12 feet high under those circumstances- but I would rather stack them on the stage (horns probably 8 feet high) as its less complicated and let people move where they want to based on their preferred listening level (if its crazy loud up front.)


As far as insurance, I have 1/2 mil liability policy.  At the gigs I have done I have required a licensed electrician inspect/setup the power and distro box, and i run multiple 10 gauge cables from there to my meager (so far) power requirements. I haven't had any problems in that department so far...

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