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[Pierre Olivier]

In almost every case, the ACOUSTICAL and ELECTRICAL crossovers are NOT the same.

So while it may "appear" to be a hole in the response-there is not and in many cases there is actually a HUMP in the area you "think" there is a hole.

Yeah. and War is Peace.

(sorry, I couln't resist)

[Pierre Olivier]

Hey!
I got new measurements taken today.
"les deux" shows the two speaker's curves, red is right. As before, the horns track pretty well, but the woofers differ. Left channel is more linear, while right shows a descending curve. both show weak output below 170 Hz.

And for those who said crossover was wrong, the other curve shows left channel with the horn polarity reversed. Easy to see the original setup was OK...

What I'd REALLY like to see is a graph of a new UPA-1A (or at least one in good shape) so I can compare with what I've got.

More listening tests today, and the region where an EQ cut is most effective is around 650Hz.

[Ivan Beaver]

Hey!
I got new measurements taken today.
"les deux" shows the two speaker's curves, red is right. As before, the horns track pretty well, but the woofers differ. Left channel is more linear, while right shows a descending curve. both show weak output below 170 Hz.

And for those who said crossover was wrong, the other curve shows left channel with the horn polarity reversed. Easy to see the original setup was OK...

What I'd REALLY like to see is a graph of a new UPA-1A (or at least one in good shape) so I can compare with what I've got.

More listening tests today, and the region where an EQ cut is most effective is around 650Hz.

So it appears the position was the problem with the different response.

In looking at the response, it is +/- 1dB  (model to model)  Not bad for any speaker-much less an old speaker.

Now whether this is what it is "supposed to be" I have no idea-but the fact that they are that close means that they are VERY close in the same sound.

It is hard to say what you are hearing. 

Are you feeding both of the THE SAME signal when you are listening to them? and not listening in stereo?

[John Sulek]

What I'd REALLY like to see is a graph of a new UPA-1A (or at least one in good shape) so I can compare with what I've got.

More listening tests today, and the region where an EQ cut is most effective is around 650Hz.

You are in the same province as a very large Meyer shop if you're looking for a  newer one for comparison. Offices in Montreal and Quebec City. Starts with S.
Might be worth a phone call.

[Riley Casey]

Does your analysis software include a phase display?  That would provide some significant detail on the characteristics of the speakers.

[Pierre Olivier]

Does your analysis software include a phase display?  That would provide some significant detail on the characteristics of the speakers.

I do think the software has phase measurement capabilities, but I don't know how to set it up for that yet. Bear in mind this measurement setup was very hastily put together with me beign unfamiliar with any of the three possible software packages, all running in "demo" mode... It has been some kind of "crash course".

Anyways, this project will be on hold for a little while, as we tore down this morning and put the equipment away to clear the hall for regular events. Next step will be to setup again with a good parametric EQ and bring in a band for a real-life test.

Aha! I always thought those S guys were acquainted with Meyer. We'll look into that file.

We made some listening in mono, and some in stereo to please ourselves.

[Pierre Olivier]

Frequency response is quoted from UPA-1A brochure "60-16000 Hz +- 4dB"
The ones at hand are more like 180-13000Hz +- 4dB

[Ivan Beaver]

I do think the software has phase measurement capabilities, but I don't know how to set it up for that yet. Bear in mind this measurement setup was very hastily put together with me beign unfamiliar with any of the three possible software packages, all running in "demo" mode... It has been some kind of "crash course".

Anyways, this project will be on hold for a little while, as we tore down this morning and put the equipment away to clear the hall for regular events. Next step will be to setup again with a good parametric EQ and bring in a band for a real-life test.

Aha! I always thought those S guys were acquainted with Meyer. We'll look into that file.

We made some listening in mono, and some in stereo to please ourselves.

If the program can show a phase display, then it HAS to have some sort of "delay  locator", "ETC", "time arrival" etc.

If that is not set properly, then there is way of putting any sort of "confidence" in the measured response.

I would suggest reading the manual a bit more.

Just because you something to show up on a computer screen DOES NOT mean that it is even close to being "correct".

Yes it is "something", but on some platforms (like TEF), if you are off, the response can the wildly different, because the "window" is opening at the wrong time.

And every time you make a measurement-even of the same source, you will get a different result.

YES IT DOES MATTER.  Especially if others are looking at your "data" and trying to help solve YOUR problem.

PROPER information is ESSENTIAL. 

[Cailen Waddell]

Frequency response is quoted from UPA-1A brochure "60-16000 Hz +- 4dB"
The ones at hand are more like 180-13000Hz +- 4dB

Also didn't we determine you aren't using an actual measurement microphone, so other than the results allowing you to compare the two speakers, the graphs don't mean shit about what is actually happening?   I'm just checking....


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[Jim McKeveny]

This thread reminds me of things I see in "Ferrari Chat": Some bloke purchases a tired 308 (or Testarossa) and discovers that comparative real-world performance is not there, and bringing it up to factory spec is costly.

If you aspire to Meyer performance send the units to Meyer or a Meyer specialist, who can confirm and identify the nonperformance issues. Then a true remedy will be offered.

This is ostensibly a "Pro Sound" forum, and we have taken the bait on this hobbyist question.

If anyone offered to satisfy a for-profit situation with the aggregate pile of gear offered here it would be rejected out-of-hand, at least in the NE corridor circles.

I rant, therefore I am.

Happy New Year all!

[ProSoundWeb Community]