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[Bob Leonard]

Jerome,
You state you need coverage up to 400 feet. $10K won't buy a rig that meets the need, and that's what Dick meant when he said "Don't try to do outdoor sound with indoor gear." You need to be realistic, and you should start by understanding that 400 feet is more than the length of a football field. So, the last time I was around a system of that size and capable of providing the proper coverage for that size area I was at a Stones concert at Gillette Stadium, home of the Patriots. If that's your expectation you'll need to save more money. You could also be realistic and tell us about how many people you expect to be in the audience with the understanding people will move towards the music if the band is good and they want to hear it better.

[Jerome Casinger]

The end of the "real crowd" would be at probably 125 - 150ft mark, but it just depends on where the bikes actually start parking if that makes sense.  I have run this rig out doors and been fine before.  The difference here is the noise floor of 500-1000 motorcycles through the night coming in and out.  While I understand it will take a serious rig to completely "overtake them" and that is unreasonable if I can upgrade on my part to not have to push it quite so hard and have more HR, that's all I am looking to do.  As stated if my tops are doing what they do and with all the new bells and whistles that have come out, its best to just stick with what I got then that is what I will do, yes it works, but yes I also have money that this is its dedicated purpose. 

Running Dual PA might help and getting a few more subs, but at that point I have 12k in the stacks.  If that rig is as good as it gets for that price, then ok.

I get what Dick was saying.....and I have no problem with it, its just how Dick says it....on every.....single....post....that is on this forum.  I just prefer people who actually contribute instead of constantly deterring people from using the forums cause they know "that guy" will comment, need more answers, then just ask and I will give more details of course.

Jerome,
You state you need coverage up to 400 feet. $10K won't buy a rig that meets the need, and that's what Dick meant when he said "Don't try to do outdoor sound with indoor gear." You need to be realistic, and you should start by understanding that 400 feet is more than the length of a football field. So, the last time I was around a system of that size and capable of providing the proper coverage for that size area I was at a Stones concert at Gillette Stadium, home of the Patriots. If that's your expectation you'll need to save more money. You could also be realistic and tell us about how many people you expect to be in the audience with the understanding people will move towards the music if the band is good and they want to hear it better.

[Jerome Casinger]

and a double again....

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

The end of the "real crowd" would be at probably 125 - 150ft mark, but it just depends on where the bikes actually start parking if that makes sense.  I have run this rig out doors and been fine before.  The difference here is the noise floor of 500-1000 motorcycles through the night coming in and out.  While I understand it will take a serious rig to completely "overtake them" and that is unreasonable if I can upgrade on my part to not have to push it quite so hard and have more HR, that's all I am looking to do.  As stated if my tops are doing what they do and with all the new bells and whistles that have come out, its best to just stick with what I got then that is what I will do, yes it works, but yes I also have money that this is its dedicated purpose. 

Running Dual PA might help and getting a few more subs, but at that point I have 12k in the stacks.  If that rig is as good as it gets for that price, then ok.

I get what Dick was saying.....and I have no problem with it, its just how Dick says it....on every.....single....post....that is on this forum.  I just prefer people who actually contribute instead of constantly deterring people from using the forums cause they know "that guy" will comment, need more answers, then just ask and I will give more details of course.

You're doing s*** biker jobs for little or no money and you want free advice.

You have to take what you get.

[Jerome Casinger]

You're doing s*** biker jobs for little or no money and you want free advice.

You have to take what you get.

Funny s*** biker jobs pay well over double what all other outdoor gigs do when the turn out is over 1000 in a night,  not many bars bring in that kind of money... and therefore I am happy to do them, plus I am home by 10pm.  That's right...Dick Rees knows everything...all bow at his feet for his awesome 2 cents he gives on here thinking everyone needs to have 500k to spend and shouldn't start working in a profession that clearly he is the master of.  Free advice.....clearly you have got real far in life on your own and paid for all the advise you have ever received.

I bow at your feet o great DICK Rees....I will never be to the level you are.....(puke)

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Jerome...

You've been hanging around the Forums long enough to have seen your question posed dozens of times.  There are lots of specific recommendations in these other threads.

I made an initial post directy to your point.  You can't get your stated/desired result with the level of gear you're using/considering.

You have to find some REAL money, re-adjust your expectations to fit what you have or take quieter gigs.

[Jerome Casinger]

Jerome...

You've been hanging around the Forums long enough to have seen your question posed dozens of times.  There are lots of specific recommendations in these other threads.

I made an initial post directy to your point.  You can't get your stated/desired result with the level of gear you're using/considering.

You have to find some REAL money, re-adjust your expectations to fit what you have or take quieter gigs.

Sounds good, Thanks for your opinion that the KW rig is the best bet right now.

[Scott Wagner]

This year I have been swamped with all kinds of gigs.  I don't do this for the money ( but I don't undercut ), but have found recently as I get hired for some of the larger gigs, I am reaching my systems capabilities.  Mostly outdoor biker nights where the noise floor is high etc etc, I am really riding it to get the most out of it. 300 to 400 feet back and people are still beyond that.

I sold off my JBL powered rig a couple years ago after it went thermal on an outdoor gig and got a KW rig (4 - 153's and 4 - 181's), its been rock solid.  I found at my last biker gig, I was pushing the tops into clip and was really having to work them hard having to run everything through them unlike inside.  Coverage wise I was only using one set on the subs, because I didn't need the width of coverage.  I am thinking of running the dual set up this month with Vox in one set, instruments in the other to see if I can get further output, but I don't really like having that be my bandaid fix.  Bass wise, I know I was pushing them, I stacked and centered them together, Ive always been surprised at the output of them for the size/cost for front loaded.

My vote is to save your pennies, and run what you have. Run a pair of 153s as FOH, and use the other pair as Delay Stacks. That will actually help your situation, instead of throwing a bunch of speakers up front together (making things worse). Equipment isn't the solution; knowledge is.

[Scott Wagner]

Back to the original question, I have 6 to 7 grand to work with currently, if there is a better scalable option that I can easily use for indoor gigs then scale up for out, I have about 10k to burn.  However the ease of use on the KW system indoors, one set of tops/subs, really is convenient and would like to keep it that way.  If the KW system is a good rig and there is nothing in the price I have to work with that will be a decent upgrade for outdoors, then I wont upgrade.  Simple as that.

Take 4 of your 6-7 grand and buy two Honda EU3000is generators for your delay speakers. Problem solved.

[Jerome Casinger]

Take 4 of your 6-7 grand and buy two Honda EU3000is generators for your delay speakers. Problem solved.

Ive got one EU3000is already and was reading earlier in a post about how to do it wirelessly.  I have run delays but always wired from my FOH position.  This location however that isn't an option.  I never thought to use standard wireless units to feed them and will have to tool around with what I currently have to see how that can work out.  I can handle the delay within the console, so that could be a good option.  Thinking a few more subs may be in order of course as well, I imagine 2 to 4 more will be about the extent I could expand it on that end.

[ProSoundWeb Community]