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[Isaac South]

Thank you for your time.

I'm really close to purchasing a powered sound system.  I currently use a passive system for my band.  We travel with a youth group a few times per year.  Our venues are anywhere from 100 people to 300.  Small to medium sized churches.  We have two guitars, bass, drums, keyboard, organ, drums, and 3 vocals.  We do anything from Chris Tomlin to Jason Crabb to William McDowell.

I'm going powered, so that I can reduce my hookup time and also lessen the number of items I have to carry everywhere.  I know some people are against powered-systems.  If you are, please let me know why I might be making a mistake.

Otherwise, here is my question:

I'm purchasing the following items.  I already have a mixer and snake and other items.  I'm just replacing the speakers and amps and such.

Type          Qty           Brand   Model            Price
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
                                                     
Is this gear over-kill? Do I need more?  Thanks for your suggestions and help.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thank you for your time.

I'm really close to purchasing a powered sound system.  I currently use a passive system for my band.  We travel with a youth group a few times per year.  Our venues are anywhere from 100 people to 300.  Small to medium sized churches.  We have two guitars, bass, drums, keyboard, organ, drums, and 3 vocals.  We do anything from Chris Tomlin to Jason Crabb to William McDowell.

I'm going powered, so that I can reduce my hookup time and also lessen the number of items I have to carry everywhere.  I know some people are against powered-systems.  If you are, please let me know why I might be making a mistake.

Otherwise, here is my question:

I'm purchasing the following items.  I already have a mixer and snake and other items.  I'm just replacing the speakers and amps and such.

Type          Qty           Brand   Model            Price
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
                                                     
Is this gear over-kill? Do I need more?  Thanks for your suggestions and help.

Powered speakers generally are great.  The KW181 is a significantly better speaker than the KSUB.

The Mackie Thumps are pretty bottom of the barrel.  I would rather have used higher-grade speakers than new junk ones.

[Corey Scogin]

Powered is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

I'd consider the Yamaha DSR112 over the K12.  It's $100 more expensive but will play louder and cleaner.  The slightly wider dispersion may help in many of the venues you describe.  If you often end up in a wide audience arrangement (a lot of churches), you may need something that arrays decently (not the DSR or K12) so that you can use 2 per side.

For monitors, I prefer something like the Alto SXM112 (or anything Alto) over the Mackie Thump.  As long as you don't need tons of low end in them, they sound very good.

[Jay Marr]

I'm not against powered systems, but there is a reason I don't prefer them.
In my experience, they take longer to set up and break down....and I have also had two powered speakers have amp failures, which left me dead in the water.

With passive speakers, if your amp dies, you can double up on one side (of a working amp), or also carry a back up power amp (that can run ANY of your speakers if one of them loses it's amp).  I like the redundancy options with passive.  But that's just a matter of preference.

On the set up and break down:
Two powered tops and two powered subs requires:
4 XLR cables
4 IEC power cables
2 Extension cords (to get to each side of the stage)
(and maybe a power strip on each side of the stage...unless your extension cables have two outlets on each end)
....so total of 10 cables (and maybe two power strips)

Passive set up (that I currently run).
2 power cables to my rack (to power my amps).
2 four conductor speaker cables, one to each side of the stage.
....so total of 4 cables.

Having run both, I can set up my passive system much faster.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I'm not against powered systems, but there is a reason I don't prefer them.
In my experience, they take longer to set up and break down....and I have also had two powered speakers have amp failures, which left me dead in the water.

With passive speakers, if your amp dies, you can double up on one side (of a working amp), or also carry a back up power amp (that can run ANY of your speakers if one of them loses it's amp).  I like the redundancy options with passive.  But that's just a matter of preference.

On the set up and break down:
Two powered tops and two powered subs requires:
4 XLR cables
4 IEC power cables
2 Extension cords (to get to each side of the stage)
(and maybe a power strip on each side of the stage...unless your extension cables have two outlets on each end)
....so total of 10 cables (and maybe two power strips)

Passive set up (that I currently run).
2 power cables to my rack (to power my amps).
2 four conductor speaker cables, one to each side of the stage.
....so total of 4 cables.

Having run both, I can set up my passive system much faster.

You're using different math depending on what you're talking about - you claim 4 XLR cables for the active system, but only list 2 speaker cables for a passive system.  You'll need 4 speaker cables for the passive system if you have subs and mains.  On the active side, you cover all of the cabling from board to speakers, but the passive side you neglect the signal cables to your rack.  Maybe, MAYBE you save two cables with a passive system.

If it really bothers you (it doesn't for me), you can get Siamese power/XLR cables.

The downsides of passive speakers are:

- You have to store, transport, carry, and have space on stage for a rack.
- Your cost is just as high or higher than active speakers for similar (usually poorer) performance.
- Generally speaking, passive boxes don't sound as good as active.  This is especially true for box/amp combos that cost less than $2K per side.
- Passive systems are much easier to damage due to less-integrated speaker protection algorithms, etc.
- Now that the most recent crop of active boxes come with FIR tunings built-in make it an even harder sell to stay passive.

[Stephen Snipes]

For what you're doing I thin powered would be the way to go.  I like my kw181 and for tops I've heard the k12 before but I do like the dsr112 more.   

[Ray Aberle]

You're using different math depending on what you're talking about - you claim 4 XLR cables for the active system, but only list 2 speaker cables for a passive system.  You'll need 4 speaker cables for the passive system if you have subs and mains. 

I believe that based on this:

2 four conductor speaker cables, one to each side of the stage.

He's currently using 4-conductor cables, to send both LF and HF to each side of the stage using one cable. Although he's also using a jumper cable from the sub to the top (or a breakout box PLUS another cable) so the cable count ends up being the same. It's just one LONG run, as opposed to two, to get to the other side of the stage I can see a bit of time/weight savings there, more time then weight. Although I can pull two cables at the same time.

-Ray

[claude cascioli]

Thank you for your time.

I'm really close to purchasing a powered sound system.  I currently use a passive system for my band.  We travel with a youth group a few times per year.  Our venues are anywhere from 100 people to 300.  Small to medium sized churches.  We have two guitars, bass, drums, keyboard, organ, drums, and 3 vocals.  We do anything from Chris Tomlin to Jason Crabb to William McDowell.

I'm going powered, so that I can reduce my hookup time and also lessen the number of items I have to carry everywhere.  I know some people are against powered-systems.  If you are, please let me know why I might be making a mistake.

Otherwise, here is my question:

I'm purchasing the following items.  I already have a mixer and snake and other items.  I'm just replacing the speakers and amps and such.

Type          Qty           Brand   Model            Price
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
                                                     
Is this gear over-kill? Do I need more?  Thanks for your suggestions and help.

i hate powered setups why most powered speaker don't put out the power they say and you need to run more cabling power and audio and if you're outdoor and caught in the rain you're screwed. and Siamese cable for power and audio are very bulky

[Tom Roche]

The QSC K12 speakers at my church sound decent at low to moderate levels.  If you think you might need a speaker that can go louder and sound better doing it, then consider the QSC KW122 or the Yamaha DSR112.

IMHO, the KW181 is far superior to the KSUB for not much more money.

[Tim Weaver]

Thank you for your time.

I'm really close to purchasing a powered sound system.  I currently use a passive system for my band.  We travel with a youth group a few times per year.  Our venues are anywhere from 100 people to 300.  Small to medium sized churches.  We have two guitars, bass, drums, keyboard, organ, drums, and 3 vocals.  We do anything from Chris Tomlin to Jason Crabb to William McDowell.

I'm going powered, so that I can reduce my hookup time and also lessen the number of items I have to carry everywhere.  I know some people are against powered-systems.  If you are, please let me know why I might be making a mistake.

Otherwise, here is my question:

I'm purchasing the following items.  I already have a mixer and snake and other items.  I'm just replacing the speakers and amps and such.

Type          Qty           Brand   Model            Price
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Main           1           QSC           K12                    800.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Sub           1           QSC           KSUB or KW181    1,080.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
Monitor   1           Mackie   Thump 12            300.00
                                                     
Is this gear over-kill? Do I need more?  Thanks for your suggestions and help.

Just a suggestion here:

Mains      Yamaha DSR112    $900 each
Subs       JBL PRX718XLF      $1200 each
Monitors  Alto SXM112's       $300 each

And invest in some siamese cable for the rig to make things just as easy as a non powered setup.


I know this is higher than what you proposed, but it's not that much more money and is a significant upgrade in output and sound quality (IMO).....



P.S. If money is not too much of a concern, consider using the same boxes for monitors as you do for mains. That way you have a backup plan in case something fails. 6 Yamaha DSR112's would give you 2 mains, 3 monitors and 1 spare/fill speaker. Plus they would fit in cases as pairs and pack better.

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