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[Steve M Smith]

If I'm using a quality analog rig and the talent is happy with it, the last thing I need is a stranger coming up and sneeringly asking why I'm not running digital

It's not just in live sound.  I get asked similar questions when using film cameras.  The classic is "can you still get film for it?" Perhaps they think I just like the sound of the shutter!


Steve.

[Kevin Maxwell]

It's not just in live sound.  I get asked similar questions when using film cameras.  The classic is "can you still get film for it?" Perhaps they think I just like the sound of the shutter!


Steve.

Now that you say it that way I can see totally taken out of context how if someone just came up and asked why aren’t you using a digital console would sound rather strange. It was just a small part of a larger conversation. This was a few years ago and I think I was looking for his opinions on the whole digital console subject at that point in the conversation. 

But it is funny that if you have a problem with an expensive piece of gear the client is more understanding then if you have a problem with a cheap piece of gear.

[Len Zenith Jr]

But it is funny that if you have a problem with an expensive piece of gear the client is more understanding then if you have a problem with a cheap piece of gear.

So true! All gear can break down but the old saying was that you get a lot more sympathy if a piece of gear goes down in a rack full of Brand new DBX and Crown than if you have a rack full of Berry!

[Andrew Hollis]

Certainly there are riders out there with "No B, No M, No XYZ clauses." Under closer scrutiny this direction seems based on some pretty flawed premises.

Simply, the kind of venue that would choose these 'lesser' (less expensive) products is additionally likely not spending the money to put high quality infrastructure around them, nor the proper talent behind them. One can see how this compounds to create an inferior product--and by product I mean the resulting aural experience. Blaming one single item in a system seems a fool's game, and is best practiced by amateurs without appreciation for the big picture.

[Ivan Beaver]

But it is funny that if you have a problem with an expensive piece of gear the client is more understanding then if you have a problem with a cheap piece of gear.

VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen a number of cases in which an expensive piece of gear was given a "free pass" when it does not work-yet a cheap piece of gear that is working just fine is somehow "messing up the sound".

I remember Hartley Peavey once saying (when asked what amp he thought was the "best") -"The one that works"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How true-yet not everybody believes that.

[Brian Jojade]

The challenge for me was that ALL the small format digital's have different workflows, implementations, user interfaces, etc. but ALL essentially do the same as an analog console. I've comfortable walking up to an analog console and mixing. Can't say the same for digital as the UI (User Interface) and workflow variances are so divergent between the X32, QU16, Presonus, Si and DL1608 offerings that it's not a grab-and-go thing like analog would be.

It depends on the size of the system you're working with.  I'd much rather walk up to a digital console that I've never used before versus walking up to an analog system with custom patched outboard.  At least with digital, you would have access to a manual and could quickly learn what you needed to.  With a custom built system, there's not likely to be a reference manual available.

And while analog boards are pretty similar, once you get into the larger systems, you have to learn what their block diagram is like.  There are plenty of differences for each.

[Mac Kerr]

It depends on the size of the system you're working with.  I'd much rather walk up to a digital console that I've never used before versus walking up to an analog system with custom patched outboard.  At least with digital, you would have access to a manual and could quickly learn what you needed to.  With a custom built system, there's not likely to be a reference manual available.

And while analog boards are pretty similar, once you get into the larger systems, you have to learn what their block diagram is like.  There are plenty of differences for each.

And on the digital console the insert patch on the compressor is more likely to work. Troubleshooting insert cables is something I'm glad I don't do anymore.

Mac

[David Parker]

VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen a number of cases in which an expensive piece of gear was given a "free pass" when it does not work-yet a cheap piece of gear that is working just fine is somehow "messing up the sound".

I remember Hartley Peavey once saying (when asked what amp he thought was the "best") -"The one that works"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How true-yet not everybody believes that.

at a show several years ago, a friend was promoting it, had hired a local soundco, and they brought out thus HUGE Biamp 32 channel mixer. Everyone oohed and aahhed over it, and it was noisy. The guy who brought it out told us it was noisy. But it was really big, so everyone oohed and aahhhed!

[Jason Raboin]

In Jason's case, he works for an internationally recognized singer/songwriter with a career spanning 50 years (or nearly so), and she can easily hear the difference between the gear that sounds good and the gear that does not meet her standards.  She's got the clout (and chops) to require the equipment and support needed to deliver her performance the way she wants it heard and there's nothing wrong with that.  Jason isn't dissing VRX because he's a gear snob, he refuses it because his artist can hear the difference and doesn't like what she hears (and at her age she still has very good hearing to go with her voice).

Well, almost.  Joan uses in-ears and doesn't really hear what's coming out of the FRONT of the PA.  What she does hear, and is very sensitive to, is what is coming off the BACK of the PA.  Pattern control is very important to the success of our show.  She sings very quietly, which doesn't help matters either.

You also have to remember that tickets are sometimes more than $100.  There aren't stage moves, set pieces, or even much of a band up there with her.  All there is is the music, which isn't serving as the backdrop to people trying to get drunk or laid.  It is the focus.  I think I owe to them to hear every word in every seat, and at a relatively consistent volume.

[Ray Aberle]

Well, almost.  Joan uses in-ears ....

Glad I was right as to who I thought the artist was.

You also have to remember that tickets are sometimes more than $100.  All there is is the music, which isn't serving as the backdrop to people trying to get drunk or laid.  It is the focus.  I think I owe to them to hear every word in every seat, and at a relatively consistent volume.

And there's the hallmark of true professionals. "I don't get cool toys just because I can, I get the tools that I need to do my job properly, and provide the experience that our guests are paying for."

-- and that was the origin of this entire thread, and the discussion about riders-- it's less the brand that matters, and more what's the right tool for the job.

-Ray

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