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[Bob Leonard]

Chase,
You could start by letting these unfortunate people know if they should be using fully shielded cable with the proper metal encased connectors on both ends, one end, or not at all. There seemed to be a difference in opinions between the Asian and German Behringer sites.

[James A. Griffin]

Chase,
The info that is downloadable from the website shows SHIELDED Cat5e not un-shielded for use with the Powerplay devices.  Will shielded cause a problem for connection between the console and the S16's?  Do we need to use shielded for Powerplay but un-shielded for other connections?

Thanks,
Lee

Just for kicks, try a different cable and see what happens.   Even if it's a couple of short runs at the shop, you'll know if it's a cable issue

[Chase McKnight]

Dear Bob,

We're finding that the difference between shielded and un-shielded CAT 5e is playing a smaller role than the type of cable and wiring standard is (T568B).  This is something we should hopefully have a more definitive answer on soon!

Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, Care
MUSIC Group

[Bob Leonard]

Thank you Chase for the response. T568B, or WECO 568B dictates the RJ45 termination among other things, as I'm sure you are aware. Although often referred to as a straight through cable 568B is not straight through as the second pair of the dominant white set (green) is split to accommodate the blue pair (reversed). The blue pair was originally intended for phone services and reversed to prevent the possibility of phone line voltages from entering the LAN connection. I don't see how an RJ45 wired to 568B could be a problem unless for some reason there is voltage on the blue and brown pair where it shouldn't be.

I will suggest that the OP, or anyone else experiencing this problem try a cable wired using only the four (4) wires required for Ethernet according to 568B. In other words, a cable using ONLY the orange and green pairs. The blue and brown pairs can be cut prior to entering the RJ45, or simply wrapped around the cable and not crimped into the connector. Any good quality cable supporting CAT5 or above should work as long as the cable does not exceed 328'.

If there is a unit in or near Boston I would be willing to make and provide the cable for test purposes as a help to the members of this site.

[Michael Kurczeski]

Hey Bob
I am sending the boards to behringer after the weekend. I haven't used the S16 since I've had the issue and don't plan to unless the problem is identified and a fix is in place.

[Darren Scaresbrook]

Well, I took the replacement desk and stage racks that Behringer swapped over for two shows on the weekend.
Using the same cat5 cable as before, everything worked just as it should. No pops,crackles or loss of sync.

(ps: for those of you old enough to remember, the band was Hermans Hermits. What a great bunch of guys, a pleasure to work with, and hilarious, on and off stage. From the era when bands didn't just play music, but knew how to "entertain")

Darren

[Bob Leonard]

Glad to hear it worked out for you. Good band, good songs from a day well past.

[Mark McFarlane]

...

(ps: for those of you old enough to remember, the band was Hermans Hermits. What a great bunch of guys, a pleasure to work with, and hilarious, on and off stage. From the era when bands didn't just play music, but knew how to "entertain")

Darren

Now I'll be stuck all day with this in my brain:

...I'm 'enery the eighth, I am,
'enery the eighth I am, I am...

[Bob Leonard]

I can hear it from across the river.

[Joe Sanborn]

Hi Guys,

Most of these types of problems are cable related.  As Jan indicates below you must use shielded CAT-5 cables.
While unshielded cables many work at one gig, they may not work properly at another show due to interference. It is the same general principle as balanced mic lines.


I wanted to share this information directly from Jan Duwe:

Jan DUWE
Assistant Manager, Conceptual Engineering
MUSIC Group Services EU GmbH

I'd like to take the opportunity to advise on some statements/postings which were made in the course of this discussion. First of all, Behringer did not and does not endorse the use of UTP (unshielded) CAT5 cable for two reasons. On one hand the international regulations, i.e. FCC and EN, are very strict about radiated electro-magnetic interference, and we can only ensure reasonable dB margins when even the tiniest contributions are controlled--here shielding actually makes a difference. And on the other hand, there may be common mode interference by extreme spikes from neighboring lighting cables for example, which we rather do not want to allow entering the console at all. Of course, the receiver's CMRR will prevent mis-interpretation, but it is definitely sage to prevent any sort of uncontrolled HF noise penetrating the console, if there are so simple means for achieving it. (Needless to say, when we are talking about shielded TP, the shield obviously needs to be reliably connected to ground on both sides)

Nevertheless, I think we are all in accord with a couple of crucial facts:
> For good reasons the X32 has got the best available CAT5 connectors using orginal NEUTRIK Ethercon.
> It has got one of the most robust networking interfaces, which is 100% Klark Teknik FPGA based SuperMac technology, the same as MIDAS.
> AES50's physical layer is 100 MBit Ethernet based, all proven and mature technology for many years.
> AES50 provides extremely solid clock propagation, superior to many other networking standards (which is why it was chosen by MKT in the first place).
> The X32 has successfully passed all the international certifications, which includes radiated and received electro-magnetic interference.
> The S16 and X32 (... and P16) are performing flawlessly, are set up with ease and have absolutely no inherent communication issues
> Considering roughly ~35k units (X32 and S16) out there, working in all sorts of venues, simple and insane applications, operated by skillsets from seasoned audio pro's to absolute beginners...
And what we are talking here about is less than a handfull of non-reproducible glitches...

People who have followed us during the market introduction of X32 and S16 know that we are considering customer concerns v e r y seriously, and I garantee we are doing our best to spot any room for improvement. In this case however, it seems there are outside factors, fairly unrelated to the products, that generally would deserve attention. There are many recommendations and best-practices, which apply to basically every digital sound reinforcement system, digital networking or mixing console in the audio world:
> use the same power lines for all audio equipment
> preferably use power line filters and/or a quality UPS with integrated filters
> prevent running audio and lighting or other high-current or switched-mode equipment from the same outlet etc.

These general precautions have helped improve the reliability in many applications throughout the industry, and using the S16 / X32 is no exception to these rules.

The people who had visited us at WNAMM13 in January, might have noticed how easily we had setup a system of 13 X32 consoles (including the first prototypes of the new models) with all sorts of Wifi routers attached and Protools PC feeding the multitracks. Everything was working 5 days in a row in an odd tradeshow environment, without the slightest glitches whatsoever. ;-)


I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

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