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[Justin Reed]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system including the following pieces:

4X TFS 760HS (floodlight skeleton 3-way 1/6/12 - all factory drivers)
4X TFS 780L (floodlight 1X21 - all factory drivers)
4X TSW 718 (2x18 sub cabs - using fane 18" drivers)

we also own a Xilica 4080 speaker processor/active crossover

We are looking into procuring amplifiers for this system with the following configurations in mind:
2 X TFS 760Hs + 2 X TSW718 (4-way) mobile rig
2 X TFS 760Hs + 4 X TFS 780L (4-way) mobile rig

Our partner on the purchase is helping us design the system is adament about using MC2 amps...It's his contention that nothing will drive the TS cabs to the optimum ability besides MC2 kit. 

While this may have been the only acceptable choice back in the mid-90's i can't help but wonder if amp technology has advanced to the point where competitors are making top quality alternatives to this?

Any assistance into helping determine great amplification for these configs would be much appreciated.
I am REALLY have a hard time conceptualizing the amplification for the tops in particular -

From the TS archives

TFS 760Hs
LMF: 250 watts r.m.s., 500 watts program, 625 watts peak
HMF: 100 watts r.m.s., 200 watts program, 250 watts peak
HF: 50 watts r.m.s., 100 watts program, 125 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: LMF: 500 watts@8 ohms, HMF: 200 watts@16 ohms, HF: 100 watts@16 ohms

TFS 780L
1X21" 600 watts r.m.s., 1200 watts program, 1500 watts peak
(could not find recomended amplifier ratings)

TSW 718
2x18" 800 watts r.m.s., 1600 watts program, 2000 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: 1600 watts @ 4 ohms

Bonus points:
Full system - 5-way configuration (i cannot see if the Xilica processor can do a 5-way configuration using mono outputs for the subs...)

thanks everybody!

[Mac Kerr]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac

[Ivan Beaver]

Our partner on the purchase is helping us design the system is adament about using MC2 amps...It's his contention that nothing will drive the TS cabs to the optimum ability besides MC2 kit. 

While this may have been the only acceptable choice back in the mid-90's i can't help but wonder if amp technology has advanced to the point where competitors are making top quality alternatives to this?


Bonus points:
Full system - 5-way configuration (i cannot see if the Xilica processor can do a 5-way configuration using mono outputs for the subs...)

thanks everybody!

So what is so "special" about the MC2 amps?  Why were they the "only" amps back in the 90's?

You did not say which Xilica processor you were looking at-they make several different lines and input/output configurations.

But you can configure them anyway you want-so even the 6 out version will do a 5 way system.  Now if you are talking about stereo with subs-then that is a different story.

The more details you give about the questions will give better results.

[Chris Van Duker]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system including the following pieces:

4X TFS 760HS (floodlight skeleton 3-way 1/6/12 - all factory drivers)
4X TFS 780L (floodlight 1X21 - all factory drivers)
4X TSW 718 (2x18 sub cabs - using fane 18" drivers)

Sounds a bit like the new Freakeasy Rig to me ;-) Welcome to ProSoundWeb.

While the MC2 amps are well-regarded, I don't think there's anything magic about them. There are plenty of options which should work just as well.

-Chris

[Bob L. Wilson]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system including the following pieces:

4X TFS 760HS (floodlight skeleton 3-way 1/6/12 - all factory drivers)
4X TFS 780L (floodlight 1X21 - all factory drivers)
4X TSW 718 (2x18 sub cabs - using fane 18" drivers)

we also own a Xilica 4080 speaker processor/active crossover

We are looking into procuring amplifiers for this system with the following configurations in mind:
2 X TFS 760Hs + 2 X TSW718 (4-way) mobile rig
2 X TFS 760Hs + 4 X TFS 780L (4-way) mobile rig

Our partner on the purchase is helping us design the system is adament about using MC2 amps...It's his contention that nothing will drive the TS cabs to the optimum ability besides MC2 kit. 

While this may have been the only acceptable choice back in the mid-90's i can't help but wonder if amp technology has advanced to the point where competitors are making top quality alternatives to this?

Any assistance into helping determine great amplification for these configs would be much appreciated.
I am REALLY have a hard time conceptualizing the amplification for the tops in particular -

From the TS archives

TFS 760Hs
LMF: 250 watts r.m.s., 500 watts program, 625 watts peak
HMF: 100 watts r.m.s., 200 watts program, 250 watts peak
HF: 50 watts r.m.s., 100 watts program, 125 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: LMF: 500 watts@8 ohms, HMF: 200 watts@16 ohms, HF: 100 watts@16 ohms

TFS 780L
1X21" 600 watts r.m.s., 1200 watts program, 1500 watts peak
(could not find recomended amplifier ratings)

TSW 718
2x18" 800 watts r.m.s., 1600 watts program, 2000 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: 1600 watts @ 4 ohms

Bonus points:
Full system - 5-way configuration (i cannot see if the Xilica processor can do a 5-way configuration using mono outputs for the subs...)

thanks everybody!

Used to run four Floodlights with eight 780Ls at a permanent install in a 500 seat theater. The system used two Crown Macro-Tech 10000s linked push-pull into a single mono channel driving all the 780L as a single 1 ohm load, two Macro-Tech 2400 one channel per LM, one Macro-tech 2400 each channel driving a pair of HM, and a single PS400 in stereo driving pairs of HF.  The system ran on two BSS FDS360 units with the subs being aux fed and tied together mono between the two crossovers as they were center flown. It was installed and tuned by a competent company and with the crossovers, limiters and the system EQ hidden away in the BSS units it was super reliable. The FDS360 units were fitted with the blank tamperproof faces but I measured one once and got 30Hz to 160Hz bandpass for the subs, LM bandpass 180-1.3K, HM bandpass 1.5K-7.5K, HF bandpass 8.0K-26Khz all slopes 24dB/Oct.  The installer had added a couple very narrow notches in the low midrange and a wide smooth depression centered at about 1.0Khz. it was run hard for many years and never lost a driver. Most of the time I ran it with the 31 bands at FOH pretty much flat unless there was huge stage wash. I have heard a number of these systems and the things that stand out to me are:

The 780L is an odd duck for a 21" speaker they don't play very low but they sound really smooth up past 150Hz. Four is the bare minimum and then they must be center stacked or flown so they can couple. They flatout suck as split pairs or heaven forbid singles. They really start to giddy-up once you have eight of them coupling.

Do not try to run the sub to LM crossover point lower than 150Hz the LM design doesn't have the extension to support.

The HF needs a top quality amp. Now that the cabinets have been abandoned by so many pro users and have become readily available budget users have started pairing them with cheap power, I have heard them with Crown XLS and QSC GX and both were nasty. These same types of amps sounded okay on the LM, and HM.

I am a Crown guy so  I would think about something like an MA-9000i for the 780L, an MA-12000i for the TSW718, two MA-2402 for the LM, two MA-2402 for the HM, and two MA-602 for the HF or four MA 24X6 for the HM and HF.

None of the TS specific drivers are cheap to fix so I would set the limiters carefully and conservatively.

[Steve Payne]

You do not need MC-2 amps to get optimum performance out of Floods.  It seems odd to me that someone would insist on using those but spec an Xilica processor.  Turbo leaned hard on the package approach for the Flash and Flood systems for most of their lifespan.  Towards the end marketing won out over engineering and they loosened up on the  of Flood rigs and actually listed some acceptable amplifiers in the Floodlight manual.  The Flash and Flood systems were originally packaged with rebadged BSS amps and processors and later MC-2 amps and xta processors.  I ran a good sized Flood rig for more than 10 years using Turbo branded BSS Omnidrive, XTA and Linea Research processors.  I think my favorite was the xta.  During it's history with us we powered the rig with Crest 8001/4001, then QSC PL, and finally Lab fp amps.  I think my order of preference was Lab, Crest, QSC in that order.  But really, any high quality amp of sufficient power will do the job fine.  I would tend to use a processor that Turbo speced and issued settings for so that you know you have that right.  Just adjust levels and limiter settings to accomodate the sensitivity of whatever amps you choose.  FWIW.

[Steve Payne]

Justin -
I found this older post on the board.  It is specifically about a different Turbo product, but there is a lot of info that should be helpful to you:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=93102.0

[Justin Reed]

Thanks for the feedback - answers in bold below:

So what is so "special" about the MC2 amps?  Why were they the "only" amps back in the 90's?

From what i understand the MC2 amps had superior thermal protection, extremely accurate and stable power output and some kind of "special" signal to the drivers that facilitated optimum performance.
- i said they were the only amps back then presuming that whatever advantage MC2 enjoyed in the 90's their competitors should have created comparable and less expensive amps by now!

You did not say which Xilica processor you were looking at-they make several different lines and input/output configurations.

Xilica 4080

But you can configure them anyway you want-so even the 6 out version will do a 5 way system.  Now if you are talking about stereo with subs-then that is a different story.

I am NOT talking about stereo subs - i can't find anything in the xilica documentation to imply that i can split the outputs as you are describing - that said i am FAR FROM an expert on the kit...

The more details you give about the questions will give better results.

Thanks so much!

[Justin Reed]

Hey Chris - are you a burning buddy?
Word spreads fast to Sacramento

i agree with you on the mc2 question which is really why i am posting here...
We're looking at 15G's+ in MC2 amps to drive this whole system and that would put a MAJOR dent in the joy of putting this together...

cheers
jr

Sounds a bit like the new Freakeasy Rig to me ;-) Welcome to ProSoundWeb.

While the MC2 amps are well-regarded, I don't think there's anything magic about them. There are plenty of options which should work just as well.

-Chris

[Chris Van Duker]

Hey Chris - are you a burning buddy?
Word spreads fast to Sacramento

i agree with you on the mc2 question which is really why i am posting here...
We're looking at 15G's+ in MC2 amps to drive this whole system and that would put a MAJOR dent in the joy of putting this together...

cheers
jr

Indeed I am, and I'm hoping you get this thing tuned up as best you can -- I have a lot of friends who are likely to play on it in the coming years.

If it was me doing this, and if I could afford to wait for an indefinite amount of time, I'd wait for the big Crest ProLite DSPs to ship. If I wanted to do it right away, I'd be looking at used Itech 6k's for both the 21's and double-18's, and Crown XTI4002-2002-1002 for the tops. You could put that all-Crown rack together for around $5k with some careful shopping.

Cheers,
Chris

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