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[Eddy Houk]

Looking at a few different medium format line array boxes.

Currently I am looking at:

RCF HDL-20a
DB Technologies T12
Vertec 4887a

Would like to find a powered box. 8-12 boxes per side. Thoughts on these boxes or other boxes to look at...maybe DAS? Meyer will be too pricey.

Thank!

[Jack keaton]

Looking at a few different medium format line array boxes.

Currently I am looking at:

RCF HDL-20a
DB Technologies T12
Vertec 4887a

Would like to find a powered box. 8-12 boxes per side. Thoughts on these boxes or other boxes to look at...maybe DAS? Meyer will be too pricey.

Thank!

ill get these out of the way...
What type of music. How many people trying to cover. AND do you really need a line array? also are you covering riders?

[Eddy Houk]

First... Yes I need a line array for smaller sized arenas and some theatres. 1500-5000 seats. Mainly for Christian type events. It's a broad range of music so kind of music is kind of an amatuer question. If a box does rock n roll does it mean it won't do jazz and vice versa? Rider is not a concern.

[Sebastian Ciho]

I am to in "quest" for a rig update. almost the same principles, up to 2000 outdoor/3000 max sited event, 8 to 12 box per side, active if it could. Till recently my plans went to lacoustics, the kudo box, but I`m getting more and more opinions, event pm on the forums that it is not such a great box...

@Jack: a friend of mine, worked with das`s dual 12, the aero 38A said that in configuration, anywhere from 6 to 12 box they sound verry good, better even that kudo in same cases.

the vt4887a could also be a good candidate but don`t like the lowmid lack dew the dual 8" to 18" transition...

[Tim McCulloch]

the vt4887a could also be a good candidate but don`t like the lowmid lack dew the dual 8" to 18" transition...

Use the 4 way mode.  It makes the flown 4881 "sub" a LF module, and then ground stack the subs.  When we did this in VerTec class, IIRC we used the 4882 for subs... but that was 4 years ago and it could have been 4880.  Sounded very good.  A starting point for the smaller of audiences the OP is talking about would be 8-4887, 2-4881 and 2-4882.  For bigger venues I'd consider 12-4887, 3-4881 and and 3-4882 or 2-4880.  Chest pounding bass will require more subs, as will any sub steering.

Ultimately it is about output.  After a certain point putting more small boxes in the air doesn't translate into enough additional SPL.  Carefully consider the maximum output needed over the audience area.  I strongly suggest using the coverage prediction tools available from the respective manufacturers as a preliminary way to determine if a particular model constitutes Enough Rig for the Gig®.  When we were considering the VerTec 4888 I started making some predictions and came to the conclusion that we'd be pushing it too hard on some of the shows we do.  Buying the right product the first time is cheaper than continually fixing blown up stuff... and eventually replacing it with what we should have gotten the first time around.  Buy once, cry once.

We went big and bought 4889 and 4880 subs.  Eventually we bought 16 4887 that get used as side hangs or PA for corporates and "soft seater" gigs.

Finally, do you need a vertical array because of the venues you're working or do you need a line array for competitive reasons, or perhaps some of both?  There are other options that are lighter and require far less computer time to correctly deploy, but they don't have the cachet of "line array."

[Sebastian Ciho]

@tim
Well, at least in my case it a bit of both. almost all the venues and outdoor location that we encounter can also use other system, like a well deployed pointsource sistem. It has be done, but, at least, competitive speaking, almost along the entire country, linearray sistems get more gigs, because their look, assuming that la systems sound good all the time. Bonus of all that, would be the fact that a line array could be paid better.
 
One of our competitor has a rig vt4887 with 4880, itech amps. Recently, heard it a small gig, 4-4 4887 and 2 4880 each side. It sound good, leaving a side the hf sparkle classic to vertecs, but that was one of the moments that low mid did not felt right!  addition of 4881 could be the solution, as you say, but I doubt that it shall be implemented, at least in his case.
I am also wondering, if it could be possible to some gigs, which din`t require much LF, with out subs, or a lot of subs! especially corporate with lower spl levels. One thing that could get a bonus would be to deployed as a 6 box stack , if necessary.
Unfortunately, I`ve only heard das aero 38a some time ago at a scorpions concert, and pa was a mix between adamson and das...so can`r really say if that is.

[Tim McCulloch]

@tim
Well, at least in my case it a bit of both. almost all the venues and outdoor location that we encounter can also use other system, like a well deployed pointsource sistem. It has be done, but, at least, competitive speaking, almost along the entire country, linearray sistems get more gigs, because their look, assuming that la systems sound good all the time. Bonus of all that, would be the fact that a line array could be paid better.
 
One of our competitor has a rig vt4887 with 4880, itech amps. Recently, heard it a small gig, 4-4 4887 and 2 4880 each side. It sound good, leaving a side the hf sparkle classic to vertecs, but that was one of the moments that low mid did not felt right!  addition of 4881 could be the solution, as you say, but I doubt that it shall be implemented, at least in his case.
I am also wondering, if it could be possible to some gigs, which din`t require much LF, with out subs, or a lot of subs! especially corporate with lower spl levels. One thing that could get a bonus would be to deployed as a 6 box stack , if necessary.
Unfortunately, I`ve only heard das aero 38a some time ago at a scorpions concert, and pa was a mix between adamson and das...so can`r really say if that is.

4-4887 is not a "line", it's more of a "dash."  You need at least 6' for any appreciable LF pattern control, so you're looking at at least 8-4887 for each side of the stage.

The primary reason for bad sounding vertical arrays is due to improper deployment, and there seems to be a lot of that in regional sound companies.  Not sure why, it doesn't take extensive efforts or astronomical IQ to do it right.  When I have a BE or client comment that our VerTec rigs sound particularly good I think to myself "sure, we put it up the way JBL said to."  A comprehension of acoustics and the ability to follow training/instruction seems to be sufficient for most of our work.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

It's a broad range of music so kind of music is kind of an amatuer question. If a box does rock n roll does it mean it won't do jazz and vice versa?

Actually it's not - there are a number of boxes suitable for one thing and completely unsuitable for another.  You gave almost no information in your post.  Maybe you were insulted that some clarifying questions were asked, but the "which one box a side line array should I buy for $2000 for my DJ birthday party" questions appear here about 3 times a week.

[Steve Milner]

4-4887 is not a "line", it's more of a "dash."

   
  Quote of the day Mr. McCulloch!! 

Christian type events. It's a broad range of music so kind of music is kind of an amatuer question. If a box does rock n roll does it mean it won't do jazz and vice versa?

  You will find on this forum and in general with this industry, that specifics can almost never be too specific. Our jobs are all about details and specifics, generalizations and inferences are confusing and difficult for us to work with. When you say "Christian Type Events" ... it does not tell us anything about your real needs. I've worked Christian type events that were on both extremes of the spectrum as far as system and volume needs.
 
  Similarly, the difference between Rock and Jazz can be just as ambiguous. I've worked with many an acoustic rock group and have also worked with plenty of power-jazz groups, I'll let you take a guess at which ones required the bigger system.

  If you're following along, you're starting to see hopefully just how hard it is to answer your question with anything other then a guess. Now, with all of those variables, we're covering between 1500 and 5000 people in both small arenas and theaters... which may be the biggest variable of all. Are you going to actually deal with getting proper coverage in these various rooms (balcony fills, delays, under balcony fills etc.) Or are you just going to throw two big hangs up L/R and call it a day. 

 
 

[Steven Barnes]

I am to in "quest" for a rig update. almost the same principles, up to 2000 outdoor/3000 max sited event, 8 to 12 box per side, active if it could. Till recently my plans went to lacoustics, the kudo box, but I`m getting more and more opinions, event pm on the forums that it is not such a great box...

@Jack: a friend of mine, worked with das`s dual 12, the aero 38A said that in configuration, anywhere from 6 to 12 box they sound verry good, better even that kudo in same cases.

the vt4887a could also be a good candidate but don`t like the lowmid lack dew the dual 8" to 18" transition...

I don't know why the L-Acoustics Kudo have such a bad name around here. I freelanced for a company that has 12 top and 8- SB218's as an A-Rig when the boxes were first introduced and we never had any issues with the rig. It was an excellent sounding box and was very rider friendly. The only Kudo rig I have worked on that needed some work was running version 2.0 Presets on a XTA powered by QSC PL6.0. Keep it to L-Acoustics Spec and it is a great sounding rig.

I still spec out this box regularly for shows, and 4-6 per side make a hell of a sidefill rig on bigger shows.

[ProSoundWeb Community]