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Author Topic: quattro  (Read 9158 times)

Berti Jacobs

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quattro
« on: July 17, 2010, 12:17:29 PM »

Hello All

What block of 4 subs (per side) will give me the lowest extension
at highest spl and cleanest sound quality. It does not have to go
higher than 80Hz.
electronic dance music will be the main thing, so ultra deep
bass need to be reproduced & live performances will be from
from the heaviest thrash metal to more relaxed pop.

venue size; 45 foot wide, 18 feet high, 75 foot length.
stage 45 foot wide, 17 feet deep.
stage height is 48 inch   subs need to be no higher
than that.

top cabs: (4 per side)
http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/8-SK-F -amp.pdf

low/mid cabs: (2 per side)
http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/11-LM3 amp.pdf

best Berti
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: quattro
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 12:44:21 PM »

Obviously the TH812.

Edit: except it doesn't satisfy the height requirement. So maybe TH221s or TH412s.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 8x1 or 4x2
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 01:23:09 PM »

Berti Jacobs wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 12:17

Hello All

What block of 4 subs (per side) will give me the lowest extension
at highest spl and cleanest sound quality. It does not have to go
higher than 80Hz.
electronic dance music will be the main thing, so ultra deep
bass need to be reproduced & live performances will be from
from the heaviest thrash metal to more relaxed pop.

venue size; 45 foot wide, 18 feet high, 75 foot length.
stage 45 foot wide, 17 feet deep.
stage height is 48 inch   subs need to be no higher
than that.

top cabs: (4 per side)
 http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/8-SK-F -amp.pdf

low/mid cabs: (2 per side)
 http://www.audio-performance.com/assets/files/touring/11-LM3 amp.pdf

best Berti


Maybe Ivan could comment on how they might work in this configuration, but 8 Danley DTS10s across the front of your stage would add a 16" deep thrust that you could use for a monitor stand, or whatever else you might need a little more stage depth, and if they are available in mirror image pairs would let you couple the horn mouths together as 4 pairs across 40' of stage width, each pair being 10' wide. You are not likely to find subs that go lower in frequency that also have the high output you want. You will need 8 amp channels that can supply about 1500W to 2000W into 4Ω to power them. A couple of Lab Gruppen 10000Qs should do the trick. Since the minimum impedance is below 3Ω within the useful range you probably do not want to use amps loaded down to 2Ω/ch, or amps bridged into 4Ω.

Mac
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: quattro
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 01:39:46 PM »

Is price an issue?

Why are you limiting your choice to 4 per side?  Is there something special about that number?

Usually the limitations are a particular physical size (you did mention the vertical-but what about horizontal) and price.

What do you have to power them?  A good impedance match might be a good idea to look at also.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: How low is low?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 01:59:44 PM »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 13:23


Maybe Ivan could comment on how they might work in this configuration, but 8 Danley DTS10s across the front of your stage would add a 16" deep thrust that you could use for a monitor stand, or whatever else you might need a little more stage depth, and if they are available in mirror image pairs would let you couple the horn mouths together as 4 pairs across 40' of stage width, each pair being 10' wide. You are not likely to find subs that go lower in frequency that also have the high output you want. You will need 8 amp channels that can supply about 1500W to 2000W into 4Ω to power them. A couple of Lab Gruppen 10000Qs should do the trick. Since the minimum impedance is below 3Ω within the useful range you probably do not want to use amps loaded down to 2Ω/ch, or amps bridged into 4Ω.

Mac


That is a good idea, but while the DTS10 is great for a home theatre, I don't feel it would be real good for the usage he is looking for.  It would give him a lot of depth-but would likely not give him the "ounch" he is looking for.

I would say (in the Danley lineup) that the TH412 or new DBH218 (not on website yet-but is available) would be better choices.  The TH812 would be the best choice, but does not fit the height requirement.

His statement of Lowest and loudest is really hard to qualify.

What is "low"?  If he considers low to be 10Hz, then yes the DTS10 is going to really hard to beat and is pretty much the only commerical choice (that I am aware of).

Of couse if his definition of "low" is around 1 or 2 Hz (that is getting pretty low if you ask me Laughing ) about the only choice is the Thigpen rotating fan.  But the size requirements would be a real problem-unless he can go really wide to build a large room to put the fan in.

If he only to go to 7 hz, then the Keith Yates "Blunt Force Trama" would be a good choice.

But if low is 30hz, then other choices start to open up.  Low means different things to different people.

As you go lower and lower-it takes more and more output can capability.

Given the same "parameters" you generally pay a 9dB/oct price for extension.  That is-if you need to go anohter octave lower (and still stay flat) the sensitivity drops around 9dB in the upper bands.

You can't just keep going lower and keep the same sensitivity-unless something else starts to change-such as cabinet size-driver count etc.

So when choosing a sub-you get one that only goes as low as you really need it-so that it will be as loud as possible.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Mac Kerr

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Re: How low is low?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 02:42:11 PM »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 13:59

That is a good idea, but while the DTS10 is great for a home theatre, I don't feel it would be real good for the usage he is looking for.  It would give him a lot of depth-but would likely not give him the "ounch" he is looking for.


He already has a pair of double 15s per side that will take him down to 70Hz, and most other subs are going to eat up a lot of floor space being 45" deep or so. In addition to the extreme low frequency response that EDM requires the DTS10s are only 16" deep, so they take up little room arrayed across the front of the stage, while providing some useful extra stage space.

I'm also certain money will make this discussion moot.

Mac

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: How low is low?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 02:53:43 PM »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 14:42

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 13:59

That is a good idea, but while the DTS10 is great for a home theatre, I don't feel it would be real good for the usage he is looking for.  It would give him a lot of depth-but would likely not give him the "ounch" he is looking for.


He already has a pair of double 15s per side that will take him down to 70Hz, and most other subs are going to eat up a lot of floor space being 45" deep or so. In addition to the extreme low frequency response that EDM requires the DTS10s are only 16" deep, so they take up little room arrayed across the front of the stage, while providing some useful extra stage space.

I'm also certain money will make this discussion moot.

Mac



The only restriction he gave was the height (and he didn't say if the subs hasd to less than 48" or go under a 48" stage (which gives less room). It could be that he plans on putting the subs under the stage-I don't know.

I doubt there are many EDM systems that even get down to 20Hz solid-so is a octave lower really going to help?  Maybe-if he uses enough of them.

As usual-more details are needed-of course for now we assume his budget is unlimited Rolling Eyes  I still wonder what is so special about "4" units. Confused
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Berti Jacobs

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Re: How low is low?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 03:35:04 PM »

Thanks for the response,

I was aiming for something that has serious response down to around 25Hz.

The "4 per side" was based on my initial idea to build
LABS (they need to be in a group of 4 according this forum)
4 per side seemed a decent companion to the rest of the system.

I can not put something under the stage so the idea of the DTS10's is actually great regading size, could indeed be an extension of the stage. On the other hand te "ounch" is important, I think I dig what Ivan means.

Ivan how about the DBH218, how do they compare as a quattro to the LAB. Do they go lower? spl?

thanks, Berti


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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: quattro
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 04:46:34 PM »

d&b J-sub or J-Infra. Though, they'll probably leave your tops in the dust, and are waayyy more then you could afford.

The LAB sub is a good affordable option, as are the Danley products.




Evan
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: How low is low?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 05:16:04 PM »

Berti Jacobs wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 15:35


Ivan how about the DBH218, how do they compare as a quattro to the LAB. Do they go lower? spl?

thanks, Berti




The DBH218 is the same size as the lab sub-but has a higher sensitivity and a much higher power handling-so the output would be much higher.

It can be run as a single 2 ohm or dual 4 ohm load-or it can be ordered with 8 ohm drivers for a single 4 ohm or dual 8 ohm load.

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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
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