Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kevin Rhodus]

Howdy,

I am designing an install and am looking for recommendations on a system controller. What I want is the ability to control the unit and specifically the levels for the zones remotely (from a computer) and possibly (not required) from a control panel on the rack. There is going to be 5-6 different zones that all are going to be getting a feed from an iPod (hopefully in the future a network audio feed). Also, the controller (or another unit) needs to be able to mute the audio from the iPod at night (on a set schedule).

I found the Symetrix Zone Mix 760 which seems to do almost everything I am looking for, but I am open to other suggestions. The nice thing about the Symetrix is the ability to add control panels that have mic in's. This would give us the ability to have someone plug a mic in and give a presentation from 2-3 of the zones, which is always a plus.  

Thanks!

[Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC]

Possibly off topic but you mention an iPod as a music source. Aside from the fact that it amazes me that someone would consider a personal audio device as a music source in a commercial venue anyway, (and yes, I know they make all kinds of cables and docking adapters) I think it's worthwhile to again talk about the legalities of using music in a business environment. Unless what you have on that iPod is royalty free music or you are paying royalties directly, the use of that music in a commercial venue is illegal.

I assume that you thought that this would be a quick and dirty way to provide music. It might be in your home for you or your guests personal enjoyment, but for business use you have to pay up.

-Hal

[Kevin Rhodus]

We do pay ASCAP and BMI fees yearly. Currently throught the park we are using multiple Muzak systems, iPods, Alcorn McBride players, and others. We have found that the iPods have been the most cost effective and also reliable players. Our only problem with them is there is no easy way to program them to come on and off at a set time.

[Jason Lavoie]

I love the 760, but keep in mind that when you add one of their controllers with a mic jack on it you still have to wire it into one of the four mic inputs on the main unit.

for the features you describe I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything cheaper

Jason

[Craig Hauber]

Even though it's not correct everybody is doing it.  Managers and owners are unplugging muzak boxes and CD changers all across this country and plugging in whatever adaptors they bought at radioshack to use an ipod instead -all by themselves and without our assistance too!  It's going to be a serious and unstoppable trend that will only get worse if the music industry tries to enforce the "proper" way with fines and lawsuits.

From an equipment standpoint they are awful.  Inconsistent volume between songs even with soundcheck on.  Clipping and distortion by the 'pod itself if bass boosters and other EQ settings are selected.  No crossfade between songs (c'mon apple, I'ts been years -add that damn feature -iTunes has had it from the beginning running on machines with less processor capability than these portable devices currently have)

What's even worse is the wholesale dumping of entire music libraries from the owners other restaurants into a new location.  Or a management employee that used to work for one chain bringing a HD copy of their old employers library with them to their new job.

The whole situation is one big cloudy legal mess.

[Tim Padrick]

I don't know how many controllers you can have at a given time, but the Rane RPM88 may be the ticket for you.  8 in (mic or line level) + 2 AES, 8 out (+ 2 AES), fully configurable (in your case you could do four stereo inputs mixed to four mono sources, split to 8 mono outputs.  Each in and out can have comp, EQ, volume leveling....  If you can buy used, they sell on eBay for less than 1/3 of MSRP.  http://www.rane.com/rpm88.html

[Ivan Beaver]

I would look at the Biamp line of products-specifically the Audia and the Nexia.

The biggest difference is that the Nexia is more limited on inputs and outputs.

You can control via various panels by Biamp-computer or Crestron via RS232.

[Lee Douglas]

You might also check out Penton Audio for some solutions.

http://www.penton-usa.com/dsp.php

[Tom Young]

I also like the Biamp Audia/Nexia stuff quite a bit. Not the cheapest but very reliable, easy to maneuver and with lots of processing functions.

[Ivan Beaver]

Tom Young wrote on Tue, 25 August 2009 06:42

easy to maneuver and with lots of processing functions.

If you choose to use them.

There is a brand new (think weeks old) local HS football stadium job that we are going to replace in a week or so.

The origional installer put a Nexia in.  The TOTAL processing for the system is a high pass filter-feedback eliminator and a limiter. That is IT!

SO why go with an good processor?  OH, higher profit margins.

They didn't even lock it out so we went right in to see what they had "not done".

I guess those paging horns are so good they don't need any eq  

[Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC]

Craig Hauber wrote on Sat, 22 August 2009 03:36

Even though it's not correct everybody is doing it.  Managers and owners are unplugging muzak boxes and CD changers all across this country and plugging in whatever adaptors they bought at radioshack to use an ipod instead... It's going to be a serious and unstoppable trend that will only get worse if the music industry tries to enforce the "proper" way with fines and lawsuits... The whole situation is one big cloudy legal mess.

If the storm troopers do what they did with those kids and soccer moms who were downloading music you will see how fast it will stop. All they need to do is make a few examples and make sure the media picks it up. It's much easier to find places in violation than with the internet stuff.

I could also see some kind of DRM being forced into iPods so that you won't be able to take the audio off of it so easily. Look what they made Microsoft and all the computer and consumer video manufacturers do. I wouldn't like to see it but I can see it happening.

-Hal

[Tim Padrick]

Tim Padrick wrote on Sat, 22 August 2009 20:49

I don't know how many controllers you can have at a given time, but the Rane RPM88 may be the ticket for you.  8 in (mic or line level) + 2 AES, 8 out (+ 2 AES), fully configurable (in your case you could do four stereo inputs mixed to four mono sources, split to 8 mono outputs.  Each in and out can have comp, EQ, volume leveling....  If you can buy used, they sell on eBay for less than 1/3 of MSRP.  http://www.rane.com/rpm88.html

There's one on eBay now for $650.  Phoenix connectors will cost you another $50 or $60 (get the Rane ones, with the tail for strain relieving the cable).

[Tom Young]

I hear you.

But you also have guys who start adding processing "just because it is there" and end up wither "choking" the sound with all sorts of dynamics processing and/or *over* equalizing the loudspeakers. I've seen a few set ups that had meters placed through the signal chain, using up gobs of processing power and for no real reason or need.

oh well.

[Ivan Beaver]

Tom Young wrote on Thu, 27 August 2009 03:57

I hear you. But you also have guys who start adding processing "just because it is there" and end up wither "choking" the sound with all sorts of dynamics processing and/or *over* equalizing the loudspeakers. I've seen a few set ups that had meters placed through the signal chain, using up gobs of processing power and for no real reason or need. oh well.

You mean like mix guys who HAVE to use every comp available-just because?

BTW I place meters on the inputs and outputs-just so I can "track" what is going on.

Agreed-sometimes the "really cool" ideas don't yeild much-and sometimes cause more damage than good.

[Duane Massey]

+1 on the Biamp, BUT they are hard to get except thru an established dealer. Very easy to use, even for an old analog guy like me.

[Ivan Beaver]

Duane Massey wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 16:37

+1 on the Biamp, BUT they are hard to get except thru an established dealer. .

Where else would you buy your gear?

[Lee Douglas]

Duane Massey wrote on Sun, 30 August 2009 13:37

+1 on the Biamp, BUT they are hard to get except thru an established dealer. Very easy to use, even for an old analog guy like me.

And becoming an established dealer is even more difficult, which is why I mention the Penton Audio above.  And while we can't chase bids with exclusive Biamp designs, we can  do our designs with the Penton Audio and generally arrive at the same result in most cases.