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Author Topic: A question about large arrayed systems  (Read 6073 times)

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A question about large arrayed systems
« on: October 20, 2005, 12:15:58 am »

Ok, here's the scenario: A big, traditional array of boxes, like Yorkville TX, or EAW KF850, with ground-stacked sub horns like LAB horns.

How would it grab you to have another type of box in addition to the full-range boxes and the LAB Horns, with the same form factor as the rectangular full-range boxes being used (and thus being able to be arrayed together with a consistent appearance) yet designed specifically to deliver bass in the range from 150 to 60 Hz with greater impact and "punch"? The full-range boxes would be used from 18kHz to 150Hz, and then these intermediate bass boxes would be used from 150 Hz to 60 Hz, and then the LAB Horns would take over from there down to 27 Hz or whatnot. It has been said that the LABs  seem to lack the "punch" because the design is so much more focused on the "sub" in sub-bass.

Does this seem like something you would want to have in your system or would it be kind of stupid?
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Tom Manchester

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 12:25:06 am »

I think some people use and reccomend the speakerplans.com HD15 for this exact same application. I built a pair for my high school Sr. Research project and loaded them with eminence Delta 15lf's (specs for them and the kappas are pretty close, just different power handling) and I am pretty impressed. alot of output in these little boxes.
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 12:36:34 am »

You're essentially talking a "mid-bass" speaker in a 4 or 5 way system. Not at all uncommon. Peavey even makes one in the QW series, intended to take over where the QW218 leaves off and let go where the QW1 starts.

http://peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/110 961/number/00571300/cat/256/begin/1/QW%AE+215+Subwoofer+Mid+ Bass.cfm
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David Buehler

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 12:37:57 am »

Something like a Meyer DS-4P?
It's the mid-bass companion for the MSL-4s and other Concert Series Boxes.
 http://www.meyersound.com/products/concertseries/ds-4p/eleme nts/ds-4p_new.jpg
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David Buehler
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Jason McLaurin

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 01:54:51 am »

Stupid?  No way.  Big PA's produce more energy in that range than any other, so it makes perfect sense to design a system accordingly.

I'd say that the 80's approach centered around the belief that 40 per side of the exact same box was a good thing, and today's approach centers mostly around adapting HF and midrange devices to work well in the vertical arrays.  Your approach is easily as valid; the biggest question is whether MF and HF subsystems could be designed around it.  The EAW KF900 system is the closest thing that comes to mind, but it never won the "easy for monkeys to deploy" award Smile

-Jason
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Peter Morris

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2005, 03:11:31 am »

Not really - That’s basically what the low section of 850, 852, 853, 650, Xarray, Nexo Alpha and Alpha E etc does! - 80 to about 200-250.  The 750 is a bit closer to your selection, 60-80hz to 170hz.

The old Martin F2 is even closer in some ways – double 18 reflex subs 30 to 65, lows- double 15 horn – 65 to 220, mids 220 to 1K2, hi mid 1K2 to 7K isk and Hi’s 7K up.

In a large array these boxes don’t run out in this area. Very very roughly, small PAs tend to run out in the low frequency end, big PAs run out at the other end.

For dance type music with a small 850 rig – a couple a side, just double the number of subs and cross them over at 120hz……


Peter
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Tom Young

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Re: A question about large arrayed systems
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2005, 08:24:15 am »

Although this is not commonly used, I have seen this done on some occasions and at least one manufacturer has a specifric product to address this.  See: www.meyersound.com and go to the
DS-4P

EAW also makes such a device as part of the KF series (if I recall correctly).

Historically there have been such products, such as the Martin 2x15 "butterfly" bass horn.  I guess one could argue that prior to us all deploying "real" subs (that extend the frequency response down below 50-60Hz) that most bass horns and/or "subs" we have used covered the range you describe.

Whether or not you really need this depends on the acoustics, the musical style and the whims of you and the others who mix.
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Tom Young
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Shane Ervin

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Re: JSI's large arrayed systems
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2005, 10:08:37 am »

Jason Sound Industries (JSI) is a name that should be mentioned here.  Jeff Berryman was the technical director and is duly credited for his designs.  Bryan Adams, BTO & others used JSI's rigs starting with the 1975 BTO tour on up to the mid 1990's. Ongoing improvements and modifications led to this arrg't:

Fully horn-loaded 5-way rig, in 3 boxes, called the J-60 system.

J-61 sub:
  • Ground stacked
  • freq range to 75 Hz
  • Kinda big !
The remaining boxes flew and looked like S4's from a distance, (causing some confusion in those days).

J-62 flying woofer box:
  • Flyable
  • freq range 75 Hz to 160 Hz

J-63 3-Way : Lo-Mid / Hi-Mid / Hi
  • Flyable
  • freq range 160 Hz on up

Noteworthy also: an excellent sidefill stack could made from a J-62/63 and prepped by just disconnecting the bullets, allowing the 2 inch to run up to 15 k or so.
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Shane

Emil "Gus" Gawaziuk

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Re: JSI's large arrayed systems
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2005, 10:14:05 am »

Would one of these boxes have been known as "the piston"????  Keep hearing about them, never have seen or heard them in person.

Gus
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Brad Channing

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Re: JSI's large arrayed systems
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 10:46:49 am »

I don't know the specifics of it, but Clair Bros. made/makes? a P-4  I think, that everyone around here refers to as pistons.  But don't quote me on that, its been awhile since I've seen any.
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BradC
Production Express Inc.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: JSI's large arrayed systems
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 10:46:49 am »


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