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Author Topic: Pin and sleeve..  (Read 2243 times)

Al Rettich

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Pin and sleeve..
« on: January 17, 2022, 03:16:01 PM »

Looking for a bit of help. A local amphitheater is upgrading their power to a 100a three phase, from 60a single phase. City is requiring a pin and sleeve connector. I'm having an extremely hard time finding a five wire cable that will hold 100a three phase (five wire). Is that cable called a certain name?

TIA
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Brian Bolly

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2022, 03:36:46 PM »

The Hubbell part number for the wall/panel mount outlet is: HBL5100R9W

Replace the "R" with "P" or "C" for the cable mount Plug (Male) and Connector (Female), respectively.  This link should give you more info.

Be sure you're sitting down when you look at the connector pricing.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2022, 04:24:21 PM »

Looking for a bit of help. A local amphitheater is upgrading their power to a 100a three phase, from 60a single phase. City is requiring a pin and sleeve connector. I'm having an extremely hard time finding a five wire cable that will hold 100a three phase (five wire). Is that cable called a certain name?

TIA

In my experience the largest 5W single jacket cable you can get is for 60A. For 100A you need individual conductors. I have seen CEE form connectors with 5 individual cables, but I don't know if it's legal. 100A 3 is usually CamLok (which may be described as pin and sleeve).

Mac
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Steve Crump

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2022, 04:40:26 PM »

Looking for a bit of help. A local amphitheater is upgrading their power to a 100a three phase, from 60a single phase. City is requiring a pin and sleeve connector. I'm having an extremely hard time finding a five wire cable that will hold 100a three phase (five wire). Is that cable called a certain name?

TIA

Try SOOW Portable cable. https://www.showmecables.com/2-awg-5-conductor-600v-stranded-conductor-soow-portable-cord-per-foot?msclkid=a3df37098e2718f62b1456ec6e5f3b6f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)%20Shopping%20-%20New&utm_term=4577266909614334&utm_content=Bulk%20Wire%20%26%20Cable

I posted too quickly. Without my NEC available I can't verify sizing or ratings of cables/insulation, but a search of the net indicated that the SOOW 2awg 5wire used on 3phase would not be rated for 100amps. When I am at the shop tomorrow I am going to read a little to get updated on the subject.

There are other insulation types of portable power cables that would fit, but again I would want my copy of the NEC in front of me to verify.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 10:07:56 PM by Steve Crump »
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2022, 05:42:51 PM »

I've used 125A/240v 3ph+E CEE-form connectors wired with 4x35mm2 cable, and 125A/400V 3ph0E+N with 5x35mm2.
I believe that is 2awg in the US.
So it should be available, if it's legal per your code.

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Brian Jojade

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2022, 08:17:09 PM »

There may be different power ratings on cable depending on the number of conductors.  Some sites list 2/5 cable as rated at 65 amps, others say it's rated at 120 amps.

I did find one site that has 1/5 Type W cable at the shocking price of $20.75/ft and 3lbs per foot.  I do NOT want to be the roadie responsible for dragging that mess around!

I personally have a 60' chunk of 2/4 that I use for 100 amp service with camlocks on it.  That's a beast in itself to move around.

Generally, at that point, we move into the big boy stuff which is single conductor cables with camlock connectors.

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/1-awg-5c-type-w-portable-power-cable

Generally speaking, most distros for travel rigs will be set up for 50/60 amp connectors, with the California connector being very common.  Easy and reasonably sized.

If they won't allow camlok connectors for the larger gauges, then you'll be looking at things like this Eaton connector.

https://www.homelectrical.com/100-amp-pin-and-sleeve-plug-4-pole-5-wire-208v-blue.etw-ah5100p9w.1.html

Stupid expensive, but less prone to idiots connecting things incorrectly like you may have with Cams.  If they are putting that connector in, make sure they also are providing for a sub panel to adapt to other types of connectors. 



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Brian Jojade

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 09:37:12 PM »


Stupid expensive, but less prone to idiots connecting things incorrectly like you may have with Cams.  If they are putting that connector in, make sure they also are providing for a sub panel to adapt to other types of connectors.

And one of those will need to be.... CAMS.

I think I know why governments and institutions like CEE form (and it's not a bad reason) - it puts all the liability on the user side of the outlet.  The reality is the vast majority of Production Providers You've NOT Heard Of do not use CEE forms and will have no way to directly utilize the outlet.  The Big Kids of the production world - those that have multi-jurisdictional operations - have been using these for 20 years.
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Tim Hite

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2022, 04:10:42 AM »


***SNIP***

I personally have a 60' chunk of 2/4 that I use for 100 amp service with camlocks on it.  That's a beast in itself to move around.

***SNIP***

If they won't allow camlok connectors for the larger gauges, then you'll be looking at things like this Eaton connector.

https://www.homelectrical.com/100-amp-pin-and-sleeve-plug-4-pole-5-wire-208v-blue.etw-ah5100p9w.1.html


Couple things, multi-conductor SO cable with the outer jacket stripped away no longer meets NFPA 70, so you really aren't supposed to use cams on that stuff.

Those P&S connectors are big $$$ indeed. On the upside, they are keyed differently for each voltage option and they are IP67. They are way easier to plug in than twist lock devices, as well. We installed a bunch for outdoor generator inlets over the summer and I was impressed with the build quality and ease of use. The price made me blush.
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Bad Quail
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2022, 04:39:11 AM »

Couple things, multi-conductor SO cable with the outer jacket stripped away no longer meets NFPA 70, so you really aren't supposed to use cams on that stuff.

Those P&S connectors are big $$$ indeed. On the upside, they are keyed differently for each voltage option and they are IP67. They are way easier to plug in than twist lock devices, as well. We installed a bunch for outdoor generator inlets over the summer and I was impressed with the build quality and ease of use. The price made me blush.

Note only the IEC P+S connectors (IEC60309) that have a locking ring are IP67, the ones with no locking ring are only IP44 rated, though when mounted downwards it's not a huge issue, and the IP44 230V 16/32A variants are what you'll find powering caravans over here outside in all weathers.
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Tim Hite

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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2022, 01:59:39 PM »

Note only the IEC P+S connectors (IEC60309) that have a locking ring are IP67, the ones with no locking ring are only IP44 rated, though when mounted downwards it's not a huge issue, and the IP44 230V 16/32A variants are what you'll find powering caravans over here outside in all weathers.

Ahh, I didn't realize there was another version. We were installing 60A 3 480v backup generator inlets for submersible pumps on lift stations.
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Bad Quail
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Re: Pin and sleeve..
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2022, 01:59:39 PM »


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