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Author Topic: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space  (Read 1109 times)

Caleb Dueck

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2021, 08:39:07 PM »


I have thought hard about IEMs, very specifically Westone AM Pro series, as they only partially insulate the sound and attenuate ca. -12db (around the level of my ear plugs, if equally flat not sure though), so (hopefully) I could use them for vocals only, and get the rest of the mix from other sources.

Why?  If you have good ear buds, such as UM Pro 30 or 50 - put everything through them.  Including mics for the audience, and switched mics (can be super cheap ones) for inter-band talkback. 

You seem to still be hung up on thinking IEM = vocal.  No, IEM = full band.  That way you can ditch the graphic EQ, and use the parametric on the console for tone shaping of all inputs. 
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Luke Geis

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2021, 09:37:26 PM »

Radoslaw,

    Feedback is a curable disease, and like any disease, there is a cause for it. What most of us are telling you is that your guitar is too loud, your singing voice is too quiet, and your monitoring rig is not optimal. How do you cure that? You turn the guitar down by using a load box like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or similar, sing louder so your voice wins at the mic, and or improve your monitoring situation. I think your EV monitor speaker is fine. I think you need a real mixer and DSP similar to a Behringer DEQ2496 ( something with multiple parametric EQ filters ). My prescription is to use a low-cut filter that rolls up as high as practical to eliminate low-end woof and fullness. Then use parametric EQs to eliminate the first two or three problem frequencies with as small a width of filter as you can. Do this with ANY mic other than the Super 55. We are not kidding, that mic is for nothing more than looks. Once you get to a point where you can walk up to the mic and sing and the monitor is very much clear as day and stable ( free from feedback ) then introduce your guitar into the situation. Add in guitar level until the desired mix is achieved. If you don't have enough crunch ( distortion, or breakup ) then either use a pedal to add the needed crunch, or get a load box to allow you to push the amp into breakup. I got myself a Torpedo Captor X and it is an AMAZING tool. The major takeaway is that you have to play within the confines of what your environment will allow. If your guitar is too loud, it doesn't matter how much monitoring you have, the guitar will still win.

The litmus that I go by is that if things are loud enough that you are wincing ( cringing, gritting teeth, tensing up, or some other sign of discomfort ), and you feel the need for earplugs at all, it is probably too loud.
   
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2021, 07:36:00 AM »

Turn the guitar down.  Remove your earplugs.
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Ned Ward

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2021, 10:45:56 AM »

30 watts cranked is WAY too loud for a rehearsal space. Get an overdrive pedal to get the tone you want at normal levels. Otherwise, all these other fixes are just bandaids that aren't addressing the elephant in the room.

Rehearsing with a band isn't about cranking your amp and dealing with feedback - it's about playing with others and learning songs and learning to play together and listen. I'll go to any rehearsal studio and I'm fine with a Line 6 Spider amp - generally hated by everyone - and with my pedalboard and the amp set on clean, I can get a tone that works for rehearsal.

So get an overdrive pedal or an attenuator, but the answer you probably don't want to hear is turn your darn amp down...
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James Rowe

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2021, 05:25:18 AM »

Turn the guitar down.  Remove your earplugs.

At last a sensible reply, thanks Tim. I did FOH at some metal gigs a few years back where I seemed to be the only person in the room and on stage not wearing earplugs... I don't take those gigs anymore!
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Steve Mason

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2021, 06:22:07 AM »

30 watts cranked is WAY too loud for a rehearsal space. Get an overdrive pedal to get the tone you want at normal levels. Otherwise, all these other fixes are just bandaids that aren't addressing the elephant in the room.

So get an overdrive pedal or an attenuator, but the answer you probably don't want to hear is turn your darn amp down...

Agree whole heartedly.  My lead guitar player will be noodling around with Van Halen etc etc  during rehearsals and it sounds like Van Halen even at low volumes.  His tone comes from years of experience and a pedal board used with skill and knowledge.

"Singing louder" puts stress on the vocal cords and can lead to a plethora of problems for a singer down the road. Turning down the amp is probably a better solution.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2021, 06:22:05 PM »

I would argue that straining your voice to sing louder is a potential long-term problem, but it does have a solution. MANY so-called singers are perhaps really good but lack any formal training and regular practice to actually be great singers. This lack of training and practice makes them work around their problems. One such horrid " vocal saving " technique is the MJ whisper singing crap that became popular. I know many great singers that would use this trick to save their voice during the crap shows so they could kill it at the big shows. The problem is that you perform as you practice, so when the big shows came they would go flat, get pitchy and still tear their throats up. In the meantime, they are fighting a losing battle in the crap shows with monitoring.

Get some vocal training and you can learn how to sing with power and not tear your throat apart.

The first time I heard a real opera singer I was blown away!!!!! She started warming up and the whole room was moving, I could hear her as if she was in my ear and I was on a balcony 75' away. She filled the room with her voice to the point where the orchestra needed to be amplified to keep up with her... And she didn't complain about a torn-up throat. To say WOW was not even close to enough, it was truly otherworldly. Go see an opera if you want to gain a new respect for the power of the human voice. They don't use microphones, and they don't need them.

So get vocal training, and work within the confines of the environment. If you have crap to work with, it means you have to do more work on your end to make what you have be able to do anything. The big thing I always tell bands that keep snowballing the monitors is that this isn't your show, the monitors are a crutch to suckle your insecurities. Use as little as needed to do what you need to do and give the guy at FOH every chance to sell you to the crowd. When feedback is an issue and you still need more, it is generally because of unreasonable expectations, not operator incompetence. Once the operator is painted into a corner, he is stepping on wet paint and tracking it everywhere to get himself out.


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John Bosco

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2021, 03:03:49 PM »

Turn the guitar down.  Remove your earplugs.
^^^
This
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John Bosco

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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2021, 11:53:57 AM »

^^^
This

Let me elaborate, it appears as though you are searching for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. You are playing by yourself in your rehearsal space, so why is your guitar amp so loud that you need to wear ear plugs and completely mess up you monitor mix, because that's a volume you imagine your future drummer will play at? Remember, this is your starting point now and you have no where to go.

For a brief history, I'm a sound man/drummer/guitar player, mostly sound, but I've been in bands as both a drummer and guitar player, never a singer, but I have 3 out of the 4 covered. Try getting your guitar sound in your rehearsal space, just you and your gear no ear plugs, now lets work on getting the vocals working, with no earplugs and your guitar at a normal level instead of trying to be louder then an imaginary drummer it'll be alot easier now. Now when an actual drummer shows up they'll play at the level they are comfortable with, around a volume you have already set, it will most likely be a lot lower then you imagined, if not, you start to bring the levels up, I bet it'll still be a lot quieter and more manageable then before.
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Re: Need help with setting up vocal monitor in rehearsal space
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2021, 11:53:57 AM »


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