Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rory Buszka]

IIRC they were represented as L-G product early on.  The intention was clear - steal the IP of Lab Gruppen, represent it as L-G or "as good as" and make their money by theft of IP and good will.

We're talking about degrees of thievery, not degrees of honesty.

Your last line applies whenever talking about doing business in China.

Does this forum have a rule about discussing counterfeit products? Maybe it needs one. The only acceptable discussion should be about the risks of using them or how to identify them.

An unboxing video on YouTube shows that the amps even include a little baggie in with the instruction manual that has Lab.Gruppen and FP-SERIES stick-on badges. Egregious.

[John L Nobile]

Ther's also Sanway

https://www.china-sanway.com/FP-Series-pl84020.html

I'm wondering if there's one factory in China that makes all these amps.

[Daniel Levi]

They also seem to have a range of wireless microphone clones, I'm guessing even one of the cheapest store brand wireless microphones is probably better quality.
But then nothing is EVER a copy where the Chinese government is concerned, just look at the BMW X5 clone, despite it looking EXACTLY the same the Chinese government said otherwise!

Another really important reason for not going for counterfeit products is that the major manufacturers generally have a reputation to maintain and as such have MUCH better working conditions for their factories even in China. Plus how can you guarantee that anything in the product conforms to applicable regulations? If something goes bang and causes damage will an insurer cover you if you knowingly brought a counterfeit product of questionable origin/safety?

[Roland Clarke]

Are they truly a clone?  There are some other Powersoft rip-offs and I’ve seen talk to say that although they have similar components certain key components that the powersoft has say 6 off, the Chinese knock off only has 2 and as such can’t possibly hit the numbers a genuine product can.

In one of the DIY forums, it was pointed out that best guess real performance would not likely exceed products from Peavey and Behringer that you can buy at this sort of price and have a useable guarantee.

My view is that like almost everything, you get what you pay for.

[Ivan Beaver]

Are they truly a clone?  There are some other Powersoft rip-offs and I’ve seen talk to say that although they have similar components certain key components that the powersoft has say 6 off, the Chinese knock off only has 2 and as such can’t possibly hit the numbers a genuine product can.

In one of the DIY forums, it was pointed out that best guess real performance would not likely exceed products from Peavey and Behringer that you can buy at this sort of price and have a useable guarantee.

My view is that like almost everything, you get what you pay for.

I have seen videos (I can't say they are real or not) in which the power supply capacitors were taken apart.  It was a larger can with impressive values, but on the inside was a much smaller capacitor that was doing the work.

But not as well as a proper sized capacitor.

Almost reminds me of the old CB days in the 70s in which you had mics that advertised 7 transistors (as if that was better than 1 or 2).

Yes there were 7 transistors in the mic, but only 1 or 2 were actually doing anything.  The others were just on the board.  And there were also lead weights inside the mic to make it feel as if it was more solid or better built.

Buyer beware.

[Sam Costa]

I question the rationale of supporting counterfeiters.

Tim, is there a site that shows the factory for Lab Gruppen amps and where they are built and the products are purchased for those amps?
Nowadays, it's so hard to find a proprietary product that 1 company makes.

How would I know if this Chinese company (Sinbosen and Sanway) does't build the amps for Lab?
Believe me, this is all a learning curve for me in knowing who truly builds LG's amps. A part of me wants to believe they DO build their own amps, but what exactly is built there in Europe and what parts are outsourced?

I recently learned that Behringer purchased Lab. Any confirmation to that?

[John Roberts {JR}]

Don't get distracted by the small sh__ ... Good manufacturers also build amps in China...

Focus on brand value, customer support, and verified performance.

If a deal seems too good to be true it probably isn't true.

JR

[Tim McCulloch]

Tim, is there a site that shows the factory for Lab Gruppen amps and where they are built and the products are purchased for those amps?
Nowadays, it's so hard to find a proprietary product that 1 company makes.

How would I know if this Chinese company (Sinbosen and Sanway) does't build the amps for Lab?
Believe me, this is all a learning curve for me in knowing who truly builds LG's amps. A part of me wants to believe they DO build their own amps, but what exactly is built there in Europe and what parts are outsourced?

I recently learned that Behringer purchased Lab. Any confirmation to that?

One of the concerns for a brand is using a contract manufacturer where the 3rd shift production is not for the benefit of the brand.  It's happened.

There are times when a contract manufacturer brings out a product with similar performance specifications and almost-copied control layout.  Yamaha had this happen with their graphic EQs 25 years ago.  The difference was the mirror-image front panel layout.

And yup, Uli acquired Lab Gruppen with several other brands back in 2015
https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/av/music_group_acquires_tc_group/

Knowing what is real and what isn't... requires some institutional memory and remembering that it's always.... ALWAYS about the money.  Ask why these knock off companies use the trade look/dress of known brand.  I bought a charger for my phone, a Samsung Galaxy.  The Amazon listing said "Samsung".  The inferior product was labeled "Samsnug" in the same type face.  I didn't notice until it failed.

[Gary Weller]

Ther's also Sanway

https://www.china-sanway.com/FP-Series-pl84020.html

I'm wondering if there's one factory in China that makes all these amps.

IIRC, there was a guy on AVS Forum using the Sanway "clones" for live sound. The people on that forum claim the Sanway is the best clone.

[Daniel Levi]

Tim, is there a site that shows the factory for Lab Gruppen amps and where they are built and the products are purchased for those amps?
Nowadays, it's so hard to find a proprietary product that 1 company makes.

How would I know if this Chinese company (Sinbosen and Sanway) does't build the amps for Lab?
Believe me, this is all a learning curve for me in knowing who truly builds LG's amps. A part of me wants to believe they DO build their own amps, but what exactly is built there in Europe and what parts are outsourced?

I recently learned that Behringer purchased Lab. Any confirmation to that?

ANY Lab product made in china WILL be made at the Music Tribe factory, Music don't do contract manufacturing they believe it ain't worth the risk.

[ProSoundWeb Community]