ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: What's your problem?  (Read 6330 times)

Ken Cross

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
What's your problem?
« on: November 30, 2017, 10:21:40 am »

Hi all
I've been volunteering in small to medium size churches to help with their sound system issues. Most of these places have no budget and little expertise.
So far I've been seeing the greatest issues as poor speaker placement, poor microphone choice, and poor microphone technique.
Clearly failed equipment also fits in there.
I'm just wondering what you see as common church sound issues? It seems like some sort of a publication could help these folks, but I know they wouldn't read it.

Ken
Logged

Nathan Riddle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Niceville, FL
    • Nailed Productions
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 10:32:46 am »

What does small to medium size mean to you?

Why do these places have "no budget" (what does no budget mean to you?)

Are we speaking technically only or can we include the 'human' element?
Logged
I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke

Tim Barber

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 105
  • Eastern Washington State
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 12:06:29 pm »

Speaking as a lifelong church sound man:

1. The expectation that unpaid and untrained volunteers (often using poorly configured, inadequate equipment in difficult rooms) will achieve a magical result that makes everyone happy.
Logged

Scott Helmke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1629
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 12:22:36 pm »

Speaking as a lifelong church sound man:

1. The expectation that unpaid and untrained volunteers (often using poorly configured, inadequate equipment in difficult rooms) will achieve a magical result that makes everyone happy.

Wow, that's what I was thinking but put much better.

I'll add a similar expectation applied to cheap equipment.
Logged

Mark Olsen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 59
  • Canberra, Australia
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 02:33:14 pm »

I think the biggest problem in a lot of churches is that A/V is an afterthought, a line item that has to be minimized at all costs. This leads to no budget, no vision and very little thought to how A/V can assist in the broader purpose of the church.

If a church leader has a great message to portray, then isn't the delivery of that message important? Shouldn't the message be clearly seen and heard? Shouldn't the focus from the congregants be on the words being said, rather than the fact that something is squealing or can hardly be heard at all?

In my mind, the vision of a church must include an understanding of how the building, including the A/V, works into the broader vision of the community outreach and spiritual teachings of the church.

It must be a means to a clearly defined end, rather than an afterthought.

Mark
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3416
  • Toronto
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 02:43:16 pm »



If a church leader has a great message to portray, then isn't the delivery of that message important? Shouldn't the message be clearly seen and heard? Shouldn't the focus from the congregants be on the words being said, rather than the fact that something is squealing or can hardly be heard at all?


Absolutely!
So why is it that they (generally) don't want to pay for good results?
I may be mistaken, but it seems to me the preacher isn't a "volunteer"  ;)
And further to that, as a consultant, why am I asked to give churches a "break" on pricing? ???
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2382
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 03:13:03 pm »

Very well put, Tim.  Some time ago in a discussion with my pastor on how we could improve an event we do using headset mics, he made the statement referring to a high end production, "They do it."  My response was, if you want to do what they do, then you have to do what they do. 

Usually the problem boils down to being willing to spend an appropriate amount of money to get the desired results.

On the other hand, sometimes that is a reaction to sound providers/contractors that are not willing to put together a system that meets a churches needs and part of that need is defined by their budget.  IME, potential contractors tend to say you need top of the line, everything else is junk. A lot of times very good results can be had with a smaller budget.  Even in other areas, i have been in situations where an initial overly high quote turned people of to even considereing a professional job and the results where disasterous.  By no means do I mean that contractors should work for cheap, or sell substandard gear-but a country church in a rural area running100-200 people using 3-4 wireless systemscan certainly get decent results out of Shure SLX systems, if their budget won't support QLXD's.

That's the problem I run into-finding someone that will say, "Let's see what we can do within your budget."  Maybe that includes an upgrade/growth plan, too.
Logged
Steve Swaffer

Jamin Lynch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1968
  • Corpus Christi, TX.
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 05:01:03 pm »

This is what I have told many churches who are planning either a new building or upgrading the existing system.

"What is the one thing you always get comments on (usually negative) every Sunday?" Their answer is always sound.

"Think of it this way. Almost everything takes place on the stage at a church. Weddings, funerals, Sunday service, special events like Christmas and Easter, etc. Typically it requires sound, video and lighting. Why would you want to cut corners on the equipment that supports all of that? How would you feel if a poor quality system ruins someone's special day?"

A wireless mic started freaking out at my Mother's funeral several months ago. The sound guy/volunteer couldn't figure out what to do. I had to go fix it.  >:(

 
Logged
MAGA-Make Audio Great Again

Ken Cross

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 08:59:30 pm »

Wow, I was expecting a different set of answers. Small to medium churches in our area are usually between 50 and 150 worshippers. Throughout the US these congregations are actually the norm. Most of these are older buildings with equipment put in in the 80s or earlier. When I say no budget, I mean to pay clergy, electricity, etc. uses up the available budget.

It could be that people who do work with these congregations aren't on this forum.  My goal helping these folks is to establish priorities so they can improve, without bankruptcy. I don't know of anyone in our geographic area doing this.

Seminaries don't teach facility stuff. The church leaders are therefore left to their own devices in these areas. There seem to be plenty of folks who can fix a roof, but sound systems just aren't that intuitive. I also notice a huge number of churches where the sound system was never good. Such as putting parallel speakers in the corners of a rectangular worship space and no one can hear in the middle. Poor mic choices, distortion, and a myriad of issues.

Ken
Logged

Caleb Dueck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1311
Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 10:06:28 pm »

Wow, I was expecting a different set of answers. Small to medium churches in our area are usually between 50 and 150 worshippers. Throughout the US these congregations are actually the norm. Most of these are older buildings with equipment put in in the 80s or earlier. When I say no budget, I mean to pay clergy, electricity, etc. uses up the available budget.

It could be that people who do work with these congregations aren't on this forum.  My goal helping these folks is to establish priorities so they can improve, without bankruptcy. I don't know of anyone in our geographic area doing this.

Seminaries don't teach facility stuff. The church leaders are therefore left to their own devices in these areas. There seem to be plenty of folks who can fix a roof, but sound systems just aren't that intuitive. I also notice a huge number of churches where the sound system was never good. Such as putting parallel speakers in the corners of a rectangular worship space and no one can hear in the middle. Poor mic choices, distortion, and a myriad of issues.

Ken
Another issue is that the cost of audio/video/lighting for a 1000 person church doesn't scale down linearly to a 40 person church, nor does budget. 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Logged
Experience is something you get right after you need it.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What's your problem?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 10:06:28 pm »


Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.07 seconds with 23 queries.