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Author Topic: Basic Dante questions  (Read 7761 times)

Craig Hauber

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Basic Dante questions
« on: March 03, 2016, 10:51:34 PM »

Things I haven't been able to find clear answers on and want to see what you all think before spending hours on the phone:

Consider a large institutional installation,

How do you hook a desktop PC to Dante primary, Dante Redundant and the internet simultaneously?
   -for playing back internet-derived audio streams to a CL-series system using Virtual soundcard

Similar question, how do you run Dante controller, CL Editor and iPad control aps and a web browser on the same network (Primary, Redundant, Control and Internet networks)
  -when you are in a large multi-building institution with it's own networking to serve internet.

And what would be a good router to handle all that :-)


-I don't ask much :-)
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Craig Hauber
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 11:39:32 PM »

How do you hook a desktop PC to Dante primary, Dante Redundant and the internet simultaneously?
   -for playing back internet-derived audio streams to a CL-series system using Virtual soundcard
Generally, you don't. Generally you do not connect DVS to the secondary network, only the primary. While you can connect that network to the internet, I would avoid it if you can. The safe way is to use a second Ethernet port on your computer to access the internet.
Quote
Similar question, how do you run Dante controller, CL Editor and iPad control aps and a web browser on the same network (Primary, Redundant, Control and Internet networks)
  -when you are in a large multi-building institution with it's own networking to serve internet.
Again, Dante Controller, CL Editor, and iPad control app can be on the Dante Network, it would be safer to not have the Internet on that network. You can also achieve that separation with multiple computers.

Mac
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David Sturzenbecher

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Basic Dante questions
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 11:56:26 PM »

I spec all my large venue computers with three NICs. Amp/DSP/Wireless control on the Dante primary network, the second NIC for Dante secondary, and the third for Internet. I don't typically run DVS so the dual NIC connection is for Dante controller. All of the computers stay connected to the Internet for remote diagnostic purposes.


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Josh Millward

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 11:32:38 AM »

I spec all my large venue computers with three NICs. Amp/DSP/Wireless control on the Dante primary network, the second NIC for Dante secondary, and the third for Internet. I don't typically run DVS so the dual NIC connection is for Dante controller. All of the computers stay connected to the Internet for remote diagnostic purposes.


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Yes, this is the typical way to implement such connectivity. You will need a computer with separate network interfaces. These can be a combination of WiFi and wired Ethernet connections. I traditionally do something very similar to what David mentioned above, but I'll typically separate the control network away from the audio transport network. Yes, they can work fine together and often will, but I prefer a dedicated network each for Control, Dante Primary, Dante Secondary, and finally Internet. Remote diagnostics is wonderful!

You will need to have different IP address ranges for each network. If you do not specify the IP addresses for the Dante Primary, they will AutoIP into the 169.254.xxx.yyy range. Dante Secondary will always fall into the 172.16 (17, 18).xxx.yyy. Often, your Internet IP address will be provided by the IT department via a DHCP server.

You will need to specify an IP address for your Control network if you are separating it from the Dante Primary network. It will need to be different from the others, so you can NOT allow it to AutoIP (otherwise it will also be in the 169.254.xxx.yyy range). I will often use the 10.xxx.yyy.zzz range for the control network, though there is no reason you can't use something in the 192.168.xxx.yyy range. Often the IT department will be using one of these ranges for their internal networks, so it will be provided by the DHCP server on your internet connection. Use the other one for your control network.
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Josh Millward
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 08:45:31 PM »

And there is no reason not to share Dante and Internet if you know what you are doing....


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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2016, 08:47:13 AM »


And there is no reason not to share Dante and Internet if you know what you are doing....


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If you are in charge of configuring and managing the router delivering the Ethernet data, sure. In my case that is always handed by a force of IT guys. I can get it set up and working, but who knows when they will deploy new configurations that cause havoc to audio pieces...even though my needs are clearly documented.  In my experience with audio networks, isolated audio networks can and do work flawlessly for years with zero attention, while audio networks merged under IT departments supervision need routine attention.


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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 08:51:59 AM »


If you are in charge of configuring and managing the router delivering the Ethernet data, sure. In my case that is always handed by a force of IT guys. I can get it set up and working, but who knows when they will deploy new configurations that cause havoc to audio pieces...even though my needs are clearly documented.  In my experience with audio networks, isolated audio networks can and do work flawlessly for years with zero attention, while audio networks merged under IT departments supervision need routine attention.


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Absolutely - I agree. 

Our one merged data and Dante network is completely under my control from a management standpoint and is separate from our corporate network.  Primary shares with device remote protocols, lighting console remote, any OSC triggering/control, and Internet access for control iPads iPhones, downloading sound effects, etc. 

I have discussed with our it guys joint networks, and we both agree to keep 'em separated....


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Josh Millward

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 01:05:48 PM »

If you are in charge of configuring and managing the router delivering the Ethernet data, sure. In my case that is always handed by a force of IT guys. I can get it set up and working, but who knows when they will deploy new configurations that cause havoc to audio pieces...even though my needs are clearly documented.  In my experience with audio networks, isolated audio networks can and do work flawlessly for years with zero attention, while audio networks merged under IT departments supervision need routine attention.

Oh man, this is the truth right here! (bold typeface added by me for emphasis)

Yes, Dante CAN be shared with any other network traffic with no issues, as long as the network is configured appropriately. That is the problem... "configured appropriately"... Many audio people are not IT people and they don't want to become IT people. Likewise, most IT people are not audio people. If you must use a unified global network, the audio people can work together with the IT people to make it happen, but all too often the IT people will do something to make the audio network non-functional. Whereas if you just have a stand alone network that is not being fiddled with (much like your analog copper snake system is not fiddled with by outside people) it will run perfectly fine for years and years.
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David Buckley

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 03:49:17 PM »

Many audio people are not IT people and they don't want to become IT people.

Yeah, unless you're a megastar mix maestro with a reputation with staff, then the reality is that not being IT competent is a career limiting move.  Networking and computers are here.  Time to get with the program.


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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 08:57:58 AM »


[T]he reality is that not being IT competent is a career limiting move.  Networking and computers are here.  Time to get with the program.

Shure has a nice, little webinar on the topic.


- Jordan Wolf
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Re: Basic Dante questions
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 08:57:58 AM »


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