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Author Topic: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?  (Read 24047 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?
« Reply #140 on: February 18, 2016, 07:30:35 am »

No, the soundsystem itself because it's not that good, and the room, because it's terrible, are changing the sound of what the artist had in mind. Then my job is to use all the tools i have to get it as close as the soundsystem can get it back to the original.
I try my best to know the music i'm working with that night. I listen to it before on a pair of monitors. Also i use music very familiar to me when i'm soundchecking and i know this system won't push it out nearely the way it should.
I'm not making the transient stand out more then it should. I'm just making sure it stands out like it should if i can because the combination of yamaha subs and the room would destoy and drown it.
As long as it works for you and your customer.

But you made it sound like it was a good idea for everybody to use-since it was considered a "trick", and not a "tool" for just your room.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Eugen Jeličić

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Re: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?
« Reply #141 on: February 18, 2016, 08:17:02 am »

As long as it works for you and your customer.

But you made it sound like it was a good idea for everybody to use-since it was considered a "trick", and not a "tool" for just your room.

Yes i wrote it the slightly wrong way. With a good system and a good room this would only be deforming the music for no reason. Here the situation is different.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?
« Reply #142 on: February 18, 2016, 01:05:46 pm »

The problem I see with trying to use this as you describe is that now YOU are affecting the sound the artist is trying to project to the audience.

The sound system should simply make their sound louder and not change the sound.

Can you post this on the main board?  You've just described almost every soundperson I've worked with in my muso life.   ;D
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?
« Reply #143 on: February 18, 2016, 11:21:20 pm »

Can you post this on the main board?  You've just described almost every soundperson I've worked with in my muso life.   ;D

I'll derail this thread.  Blame me 8)

When I was the BE what I was hired to do varied with the act.  It ranged from "sound like the record" to "sound like the record, LIVE!" to "we do it live like THIS, so forget the record and pay attention".  The middle choice is where my personal taste was give more berth but was still subject to the bands desired presentation.  It took a lot of will power to not over produce when I was young, today as a system guy that mixes openers I find I tend to a more minimalist hand unless I've had a good chat with the artist.

It's a delight to get good direction from an act regarding tonality, musical parts balance, effects, and overall vibe.  These days I've got them for 30 - 45 minutes.  I try to give them what they want and stay out of the way, musically.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 11:23:43 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Eugen Jeličić

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Re: Cardioid array in a 800ppl club. Possible options?
« Reply #144 on: February 19, 2016, 07:18:33 am »

Honestly i believe that as long as a band is relatively educated and knows what they want you should give them only that and not what you think is better. That is yours job. If something can not be done then you need to spend the time to explain why can't it be done. If you are touring with a band of course. When you are working in clubs or festivals with multiple small bands this is almost impossible.

The other thing is, i don't think you realise up to which extend the room i'm working in is acousticaly terrible. This is one of those places where you are happy if all instruments can be recognized withouth getting yours head chopped of. You don't bother with the small detalis like colour of the mix, you fight with getting everything out without drowning everything else.
Things like all guitars having a side chanied compressor triggered by the vocal so you can hear the vocal at all are normal here.
Guy is cupping the mic, this is the second time he is on stage. You are running 3 bearely working yamaha monitors and can't give him any stage level. The room is a huge concrete basement that can fit 900ppl, you only have 80 on the concert. There is more reverb then in a 4km tunnel. You have very little gain before feedback. You had to ring out the monitors AND the PA because od this. You don't bother with details here.
When i'm doing parties i try as much as i can to try and get the song as close as possible to what it sounds like on a pair of monitors but this is not really very possible. You can't get a yamaha club series system at a 110dB in a more the half-empty huge concrete basement to be comfortable for listening unless you dich 1-5k area for even up to -5dB in the worst spots.
Of course, this depends on the music itself, sometimes you have minimal techno with very little elements up there so you don't have to do this.
And the amount of people + humidity + temperature affects this a lot. So i do changes during the party all the time.
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