ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI  (Read 10096 times)

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2015, 09:40:32 pm »

I'm not suggesting Line to Ground. This would be connected Ground to Neutral. ;D  I know that's a small distinction, but you're probably correct. So where do you buy Y-rated suppression capacitors? I've been looking around but don't see a source.
Y caps are available but not very common that large value.
Just looked at digikey and biggest Y2 or Y3 rated caps are 4700 pF

Still looking

JR
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2015, 07:06:08 pm »

i showed a pic of JR's advanced outlet tester at AES today, and the concept was well received. But several attendees came up after the presentation and asked where they could buy one. So?????
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 08:08:21 pm by Mike Sokol »
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2015, 10:14:48 pm »

I am trying to get a good partner company interested... So far it doesn't seem promising... If I have to I can do this myself, just not looking forward to the UL approval. I wouldn't sell these without that.

I can probably make these until somebody rips it off... It needs to be out there...

JR

PS: Yesterday I took one of my prototypes to check out a few outlets in a storage shed my neighbor built. He did the wiring himself. Two outlets coming down from the roof over an open air sink (for cleaning fish), and one outlet inside the storage room. All had correct polarity, but only one of the three has a ground connection.
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2015, 01:09:14 pm »

OK... After letting my fingers do some walking I have determined that the UL standard covering my tester is UL 1436 which I can buy for only $400 in pdf or $500 for hard copy...  ::)

This will not be cheap to do right... and UL1436 references a half dozen other standards so I won't know until I get this how much more it could cost just to see the specs.

JR
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2015, 06:13:06 am »

I'm not suggesting Line to Ground. This would be connected Ground to Neutral. ;D  I know that's a small distinction.....

This is one of those funny, political things.  In the USA, the terms grounding and grounded are (confusingly) used to identify the neutral and earth, and there is this thing that they are the same.  In pretty much every other non-110V country, in regulatory terms, the neutral is required to be treated as a "live" conductor, and thus there is no distinction between N/G and N/G, they are both "live" to ground, and both require the use of Y rated caps.  (There is also an X rated cap to go between L and N)

Try Newark for Y rated caps; Newark is now the USA arm of Element 14, formerly known as Farnell Electronics, and they definitely know what a Y cap is.
Logged

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2015, 12:44:34 pm »

I just received my 100' of wire so I can string a separate ground from my panel to my washing machine/dishwasher outlet , and kitchen outlet. This should either eat the leakage from my mixer or burn it up... either result is acceptable.

I have a spare GFCI that I plan to use in the washing machine/dishwasher outlet so I'll be GFCI and grounded there after I finish this project.  Hopefully this weekend.

JR
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2015, 01:17:31 pm »

Update, while not a final installation I just pulled some wire through the dishwasher hole and grounded it to a fuse panel screw.

Using my trusty VOM I measure 2 mA current coming from my mixer chassis to that real mains ground. Not enough current to trip the GFCI by itself (5mA +/-1), 2 mA certainly reduces that operating margin.

I wonder if that 2 mA changes over time? Only 1/4W of power dissipation.

JR

PS: my metal counter trim strip measures open circuit resistance to ground but 0.75 nF
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2015, 04:47:26 pm »

Update, while not a final installation I just pulled some wire through the dishwasher hole and grounded it to a fuse panel screw.

Using my trusty VOM I measure 2 mA current coming from my mixer chassis to that real mains ground. Not enough current to trip the GFCI by itself (5mA +/-1), 2 mA certainly reduces that operating margin.

I wonder if that 2 mA changes over time? Only 1/4W of power dissipation.

JR

Everything (any everyone) leaks a little... and the older we get, the more we leak.  ;D
PS: my metal counter trim strip measures open circuit resistance to ground but 0.75 nF
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 05:34:48 pm by Mike Sokol »
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Jonathan Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2999
  • Southwest Washington (state, not DC)
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2015, 05:03:27 pm »

Everything (any everyone) leaks a little... and the older we get, the more we leak.  ;D

I find that as I get older, my overnight capacitance gets lower and lower.
Logged
Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16394
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2015, 05:04:02 pm »

Well this just got more interesting... If I touch my new improved ground wire to the GFCI outlet frame the gfci trips. ????? This is with nothing plugged into the outlet...  My NCVT confirms that the ground is really no/low voltage.

The outlet tests and resets properly. This seems like a pretty obscure fault if the outlet is faulty.

JR
Logged
Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: How much fun (shock) can we have without tripping our GFCI
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2015, 05:04:02 pm »


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.042 seconds with 20 queries.