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Author Topic: Speaker vs amp power rating  (Read 9388 times)

Cameron Barber

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Speaker vs amp power rating
« on: December 30, 2013, 03:29:42 PM »

I have a cluster hung at the ceiling of my sanctuary and I an trying to figure out if I have enough power running to the cluster. 

The cluster is 3 Peavey Impulse 1012 rated by Peavey at 1000w program/2000w peak.  I have a Peavey CS800S two channel amp rated at 240w per channel or 840w total if bridged.  I an using the 8 ohm rating. 

The 4 ohm ratings are 1400w program/2800 peak for each speaker and 400w X 2 channels or 1200w if bridged. 

Do I need to bridge my amp to power all three speakers or do I even have enough power bridged?  All suggestions are welcome.
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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 04:11:11 PM »

I have a cluster hung at the ceiling of my sanctuary and I an trying to figure out if I have enough power running to the cluster. 

The cluster is 3 Peavey Impulse 1012 rated by Peavey at 1000w program/2000w peak.  I have a Peavey CS800S two channel amp rated at 240w per channel or 840w total if bridged.  I an using the 8 ohm rating. 

The 4 ohm ratings are 1400w program/2800 peak for each speaker and 400w X 2 channels or 1200w if bridged. 

Do I need to bridge my amp to power all three speakers or do I even have enough power bridged?  All suggestions are welcome.

Never mind power:

You've got three 90 degree patterned speakers in a cluster.  "Properly" splayed, you'd be covering 270 degrees.

Are the two outside speakers covering the sides directly? 

Powering these properly will not correct an existing mis-application of them.

Well, you said "all suggestions are welcome"...
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Cameron Barber

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 04:27:28 PM »

Never mind power:

You've got three 90 degree patterned speakers in a cluster.  "Properly" splayed, you'd be covering 270 degrees.

Are the two outside speakers covering the sides directly? 

Powering these properly will not correct an existing mis-application of them.

Well, you said "all suggestions are welcome"...

I did not hang the speakers.  This system was installed approximately ten years ago when we built our new church building.  The cluster is ~30ft in the air and aimed around the 7th or 8th row back.  Our sanctuary is fairly wide as we have 4 sections of seating.  I inherited the system around one year ago and I am trying to get the system in the best possible shape I can.  A new system is not in the budget for several years so that is not viable as a solution.  I am not completely novice as I have been helping in church sound for around 10 years now but I am now in charge of around 10 volunteers and I am asking for help to get the system running properly. 

I have plans to add a Peavey PSX26 to manage the eq functions and feedback elimination in the next month.  I need to address my power dilemma so this system can run the way it was designed. 
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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 04:43:17 PM »

I did not hang the speakers.  This system was installed approximately ten years ago when we built our new church building.  The cluster is ~30ft in the air and aimed around the 7th or 8th row back.  Our sanctuary is fairly wide as we have 4 sections of seating.  I inherited the system around one year ago and I am trying to get the system in the best possible shape I can.  A new system is not in the budget for several years so that is not viable as a solution.  I am not completely novice as I have been helping in church sound for around 10 years now but I am now in charge of around 10 volunteers and I am asking for help to get the system running properly. 

I have plans to add a Peavey PSX26 to manage the eq functions and feedback elimination in the next month.  I need to address my power dilemma so this system can run the way it was designed.

Giving the other dimensions besides height along with aiming angles would be helpful.  But your last sentence is the crux of the matter.  If it was (as it appears) designed improperly, they running it to its best capabilities still comes up short for good sound.

Without being able to see the installation first hand or in pictures, I'd guess that 2 of the cabinets will give you the coverage you need with less destructive interference between cabinets and generally less reflected sound exciting the reverberant field.

If three cabinets were hung to deliver a certain LEVEL of output, then fewer, more powerful cabinets should have been used.

But to your question about amp sizing:

How are the speakers wired?  Are all three on one cable, is it 2/1 or are there three cables to the speakers?

What amp/amps was/were originally installed for the speaker cluster?  If this is the original, how is it connected to the speakers.

The CS800s is rated for 260W/channel into 8 ohms and 400W/channel into 4 ohms.  It is also rated for 600W/channel into 2 ohms.  Running all three speakers would be a nominal 2 ohm load (a bit more, actually, but 2 ohms for our purposes).  It is not rated to go lower than 4ohms in bridge mode, so bridging it for the 3 speakers is a no go.

I suspect that the two outer speakers are on one channel and the center speaker is on the other...but that's just a guess.  At any rate, they are likely quite underpowered with that amp depending on the intended program material.

If the use is for speaking only, you're probably just fine.  For light music, still OK.

But if you're talking about using it for a praise band or any serious musical sound reinforcement you'll want one more amp to add to the set up...AND you'd want to redeploy, augment or replace them for something like a praise band.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 07:40:16 PM by dick rees »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 09:21:39 PM »



The cluster is 3 Peavey Impulse 1012 rated by Peavey at 1000w program/2000w peak.  I have a Peavey CS800S two channel amp rated at 240w per channel or 840w total if bridged.  I an using the 8 ohm rating. 


What exactly do you mean that you are using the "8 ohm rating"?

Is 1 amp powering all the speakers? Or do you have 3 amps?

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Cameron Barber

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 09:48:16 PM »

What exactly do you mean that you are using the "8 ohm rating"?

Is 1 amp powering all the speakers? Or do you have 3 amps?

I have one channel of the amp running all three speakers. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 09:10:45 AM »

I have a cluster hung at the ceiling of my sanctuary and I an trying to figure out if I have enough power running to the cluster.
Does the system get loud enough, provide sufficient headroom, etc?  If so, then yes, you have enough power.  If it is not loud enough, doesn't provide the desired headroom and so on then perhaps it is underpowered.
 
Installed systems are often a bit different than portable or rental systems in that they tend to have a more defined uses.  That means that many factors of the system may be determined based more on that particular use and purpose than on generic situations of 'rules of thumb'.  So aspects such as a system being properly powered are determined by its ability to function as desired and not just by the speaker and amplifier power ratings.  Whether a speaker gets 1W or 1,000W doesn't really determine an installed system functioning acceptably, what matters is if it gets loud enough for your need and works for you in your application.
 
You also mention the cluster being 30' in the air and aimed at the 7th or 8th row of seating, how many rows total are there in the seating area?  Hopefully that is more toward the rear of the seating.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 01:15:45 PM by Brad Weber »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2013, 09:39:52 AM »

I have one channel of the amp running all three speakers.
So I will ask again-what do you mean "you are using the 8 ohm rating'?  "Using" meaning what?

OK we know that you have one amp and 3 speakers.

How are they wired up?  I know how I would do it-but how are they ACTUALLY wired up.  I have seen some really weird stuff over the years.

Information is very important to get help.

You REALLY don't have a lot of options here.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 10:24:02 AM »

I have one channel of the amp running all three speakers.

Cameron...

You really need to give a LOT more information for useful replies.  If you'd just answer any and all questions asked it would be a big help.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2013, 02:45:35 PM »



I have plans to add a Peavey PSX26 to manage the eq functions and feedback elimination in the next month.  I need to address my power dilemma so this system can run the way it was designed.
You are going to need more than that. 

It sounds as if your system has a lot of interaction due to speaker placement.  A Processor will not get rid of the interactions. 

With just a single amp channel-there is very little you can do.  Eq may help (IF you know how to use it PROPERLY) HOWEVER since there is a lot of interaction-you have to be REAL careful what you "attempt" to eq.  You may make some seats better-and others much worse.

As a rough guess (based on the VERY limited information we have received about this project) is that at a MINIMUM you need the following.  One more amp channel (so the side speakers can be processed different than the center one-and a budget to hire somebody to move the loudspeakers apart to where they will not interfere with each other as much.

Where to move them?  You may need to hire somebody to design a proper system and give you the locations.  Or else provide a lot more information so people here could suggest something.

Things you would need to provide include PHOTOS of the room-measurements of the seating area-with relation to the stage and current loudspeakers.

Structural photos and/or drawings of where there is steel or heavy wood beams to be able to hang the loudspeakers.

Or possibly a budget to span existing beams to provide proper fly points.

If you cannot come up with a decent budget to do this, then all you are doing is spending the Churches money-without a proper plan to actually accomplish something useful.

They will not be likely to give additional money if the money you spend does not do anything useful.

This is NOT a guessing game.  The key to a usable system is a PROPER design (even if you use the existing speakers) to get the best coverage/sound quality.

Sorry to be so blunt-but that is the REALITY, NOT a fantasy that a simple piece of gear will somehow "solve" the problem.

People CANNOT help you until you provide more information to HELP YOURSELF.

HELP US HELP YOU!
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Ivan Beaver
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Speaker vs amp power rating
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2013, 02:45:35 PM »


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