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Author Topic: choosing a digital board  (Read 16499 times)

Jesse gray

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2013, 07:44:23 pm »

Does the soundcraft board have an app to be able to use as personal mixes?
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Chuck Simon

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2013, 11:00:47 pm »

Does the soundcraft board have an app to be able to use as personal mixes?

Unfortunately I think the answer to that is no.  I have been mixing almost exclusively with my iPad for the last year with my Presonus SL and I'm a little disappointed in the app for the Soundcraft, but that's OK for my situation.  If iPad control and individual mixes via iPhone or whatever is important to you, I think Presonus might be your best choice(within your stated budget).
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Samuel Rees

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choosing a digital board
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 12:25:45 am »

Unfortunately I think the answer to that is no.  I have been mixing almost exclusively with my iPad for the last year with my Presonus SL and I'm a little disappointed in the app for the Soundcraft, but that's OK for my situation.  If iPad control and individual mixes via iPhone or whatever is important to you, I think Presonus might be your best choice(within your stated budget).

The app is simple, but why can't it be used for personal mixes? That's the area that simple is good! It's mixing as an engineer where the app falls short. I've never done it with mine, but unless their is is a limit to number of connected users it should work.

Allen Heath GLD has a full featured app for Mac and iPad, also capable of personal mixing. Looks like its the most advanced of all the digital mixer iPad apps from the literature.

GLD configured to 28 pres should be less than $8000, I don't see room for a "QU-32". Who can afford $6000 but $8000 breaks the bank?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 12:28:07 am by Samuel Rees »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2013, 12:34:02 am »

Does the soundcraft board have an app to be able to use as personal mixes?

Define a personal mix.
 
As for stage box outputs, unlike many other boards at this level the Soundcraft boards are all capable of using almost all of the Soundcraft and Studer options with full compatibility.  If you need a huge number of outputs, and if you are willing to spend the money, either the Compact stagebox, or one of the Studer stage boxes. The Compact stage box can be bought for less than 3K.
 
What many people overlook due to the simplistic layout and control features of the entire SI line are the expansion capabilities, and not with just Soundcraft products.
 
"Flexible onboard and expansion I/O options ensure your Si Expression integrates effortlessly with other system components utilizing any of the Si series option cards including AES, Firewire/USB/ADAT*1, AVIOM, CobraNet, BSS Digital Audio Bus (BLU Link)*1, Dante*1 CAT5 or optical MADI. The MADI card, as well as being an interface to multi-track recording systems or plug-in systems like Waves, enables linking the Si Expression to any of the Soundcraft or Studer stageboxes to extend the I/O power and flexibility. Adding a stagebox to an Si Expression actually increases the number of channels you can mix at once not just how many inputs you have available to choose from! It is said ‘Power is nothing without control’ and here the Si Expression excels with a comprehensive but 'simple to use' control surface incorporating a dedicated control for every parameter, a row of global mode encoders and color touch screen ensuring operation is quick and easy. "

 
http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=183
 
http://www.studer.ch/products/product.aspx?pid=66
 
Studer D21m
 
"The Studer D21m Series includes:
  • 4-ch microphone input card
  • Analogue insert card (for use with 4-ch microphone input card)
  • 8-ch line input card
  • 8-ch line output card
  • 16-ch in/16-ch out AES/EBU card
  • 16-ch in/16-ch out AES/EBU card with input SRCs
  • 16-ch in/16-ch out AES/EBU card with input and output SRCs
  • MADI I/O card (max. 64 inputs/outputs)
  • Dual ADAT input and output card (16-ch in/16-ch out)
  • Dual TDIF input and output card (16-ch in/16-ch out)
  • SDI input card (de-embedder for 8 or 16 input channels)
  • SDI input/output card (de-embedder/embedder for 8 inputs and outputs)
  • Dolby® E/Digital decoder cards (8 or 16 input channels)
  • CobraNet® I/O card (32 input and output channels)
  • Aviom A-Net® output card (16 output channels)
  • Ethersound® I/O card (up to 64 input and output channels, selectable in groups of 8, plus 8 GPIO control signals)
  • GPIO cards with open-collector or relay outputs (16 inputs,16 outputs)

PS - The Soundcraft expansion boards and stage boxes are not new to the Soundcraft product line, and hence unlike some other Stage boxes / boards, they work flawlessly with few if any problems being reported by users of the product.
 
 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 12:40:38 am by Bob Leonard »
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Brad Weber

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2013, 07:46:40 am »

For the stage box I would like to use one because I like only needing one cable, so that when I leave they can figure it all put.( that and our current snake is lacking in outputs on stage terribly.)
Is this a portable or installed system?  Digital snakes or stage boxes can be both good and bad in installs.  They can be beneficial when you want to increase I/O at the stage within existing infrastructure but you also often have to consider how you will then deal with the actual device and the physical connectivity at the stage.  For example, if you have multiple wall plates with connections that run to the current console then how do you physically 'insert' a digital snake or digital stage box?

All of my team are volunteers, they are enthusiastic, but thats all the really have going for them.
Would the basic mixer configuration be set once and not change?  I tend to look at digital consoles as having two operation 'levels', one related to the basic console configuration (configuring I/O, assigning channels, setting up buses, internal routing, etc.) and one to the operation during an event.  The first level often requires a much greater knowledge of the console and mixing system than the second and in many HoW applications the typical operator never has to address the 'setup' level, only the 'mix' level, which can thus reduce the learning curve involved.
 
The application is primarily HOW, ranging from Sundays to conferences. For outputs I would like 8-11 outputs,( 8 for the smaller venue for 6 monitors and mains, and then 11 for the larger venue So I could get mains, sub, 6 monitors and sidefills.)
With volunteer operators you may want to address the processing between mains and sub(s), and possibly even the sidefills, via separate system processing that operators do not access.  Then you simply have mains out and monitor sends.

Besides using a couple of scenes to change between bands in conferences, non of the above would be used by anyone besides me. The simpler the better. Workflow needs to be very basic, yet I don't want to rule out any board just because it is harder to learn.
My personal view is that subgroups or DCAs, mute groups, etc. can actually make operation simpler.  Need to adjust or mute the band, make it possible with one fader or button.  Always have the same settings for the message, make that a scene.
 
The only exception would be the x32, I personally don't like the workflow and I know it would be very confusing for my team; as well as the fact that they only have one service center, their name is not held in high esteem with a lot of pro sound guys, and I don't like any piece of behringer gear I have.
What part of the workflow don't you like?  As I noted above, in installed systems you can often configure the console once or maybe have a couple 'show' configurations to load and don't have to be dealing with that aspect every time.
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Chuck Simon

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2013, 10:31:35 am »

When the OP asked about Personal Mixes, I assumed he meant the ability for individual band members to control their own monitor mix, and ONLY their own mix on their iPhones.  With the Presonus QMix app, I can assign individual band members access to their monitor mix but they can't affect anyone else's.  Some bands love this, others don't care. 
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Chuck Simon

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2013, 10:38:17 am »

GLD configured to 28 pres should be less than $8000, I don't see room for a "QU-32". Who can afford $6000 but $8000 breaks the bank?

I agree.  The "Mythical" QU-32 that I mentioned would be the same price as the Soundcraft Si32, and that's about half of the $6000.00 price you mentioned.  Maybe someday!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 10:47:04 am by Chuck Simon »
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Jesse gray

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2013, 10:51:09 am »

Is this a portable or installed system? 

Would the basic mixer configuration be set once and not change? 

My personal view is that subgroups or DCAs, mute groups, etc. can actually make operation simpler.  Need to adjust or mute the band, make it possible with one fader or button.  Always have the same settings for the message, make that a scene.
 
What part of the workflow don't you like?  As I noted above, in installed systems you can often configure the console once or maybe have a couple 'show' configurations to load and don't have to be dealing with that aspect every time.

It is for installed systems. we are currently just running a snake from the booth along the rafters to the stage, nothing is patched into a wall.

Most likely, once I set it, I doubt it will change.

As far as DCA's, mutegroups, scenes, etc. I will show them how to use everything, but i don't think most of them would make use of them. That is why they are not a huge priority.

 
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Jason Lucas

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2013, 11:13:18 am »

The app is simple, but why can't it be used for personal mixes? That's the area that simple is good! It's mixing as an engineer where the app falls short. I've never done it with mine, but unless their is is a limit to number of connected users it should work.

Allen Heath GLD has a full featured app for Mac and iPad, also capable of personal mixing. Looks like its the most advanced of all the digital mixer iPad apps from the literature.

GLD configured to 28 pres should be less than $8000, I don't see room for a "QU-32". Who can afford $6000 but $8000 breaks the bank?

I have never seen a GLD being offered for less than $8000, even on its own. Where have you seen it that cheap?

In some cases, yes. A difference of $2000 can easily be a deal breaker, especially if you're a small church.
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Samuel Rees

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 12:24:46 pm »


I have never seen a GLD being offered for less than $8000, even on its own. Where have you seen it that cheap?

In some cases, yes. A difference of $2000 can easily be a deal breaker, especially if you're a small church.

Sweetwater is/was just doing a promo of the 28x14 system for $9000... And that's sweetwater, imagine a real dealer? Chuck Levin's quoted me $8500 around when it was released (!) and I'm told a good bit less than that now.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 12:24:46 pm »


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