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Author Topic: [UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility  (Read 28989 times)

Justin Philip

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[UPDATED] Need advice on given design for new facility
« on: March 29, 2013, 10:53:18 am »

SEE THREAD UPDATE:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,143130.msg1353668.html#msg1353668

Hey guys,
We are working with a AV designer/installer..and these are their recommendations for our new facility. It seats about 1000, with about 450 seats on the floor and rest on the risers.

   (1) New Avid Venue SC-48 48-Channel Mixing Console
   (16) New JBL VerTec VT4886 Line Array Cabinets
   (6) New JBL VerTec VT4883 Flying Subwoofers

   (7) New JBL AC-15 Stage Fill Speakers
   (5) New Crown Audio Macro-Tech MA-12000i Power Amplifiers
   (1) New Crown Audio CTs4200 Power Amplifier

   (1) New BSS Audio Digital Signal Processing System
o   (1) BSS Audio BLU-100 and (1) BSS Audio BOB

What does everyone think of what they are proposing? Worship is contemporary. I would say something like Lakewood Church in Houston. Songs from Chris Tomlin/Hillsong/David Crowder/Passion etc.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:44:08 pm by Justin Philip »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 11:30:31 am »

What does everyone think of what they are proposing? Worship is contemporary. I would say something like Lakewood Church in Houston. Songs from Chris Tomlin/Hillsong/David Crowder/Passion etc.

Aside from what I think could be a terrible architectural design, I think you will want delay systems for the last 6 or 7 rows. Up high under the lower ceiling like that the main arrays may not cut it. That is a lot of vertical angle to cover and it is easy to shortchange the back rows.

I would rather see the diagonal back walls be smaller which would reduce the reflections and increase the seating area, and there doesn't seem to be enough backstage for any church offices, dressing rooms for visiting musical artists, storage for visiting artist roadboxes, prep areas for special events etc.

The gear is all fine.

Mac
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 01:07:34 pm »

The gear looks fine.

I agree with Mac that I'd be tempted to go for some delays for the upper tiered seating. You also may need some front fills since the arrays are high and the seating is very close to the PA hanging point. The image will be very high.

I'd also suggest that if front row coverage is important (which it is in most churches, because thats where the leadership sit) you might consider some kind of center downfill/frontfill solution.

This is all speculation from looking at those drawings though...

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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 01:14:57 pm »

Consider a projection wall and screen??   
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 05:09:42 pm »

Ditto on the balcony delays, that looks like a very long shot. Adding delays will probably reduce the SPL needs from the cluster, resulting in less trouble getting gain out of lav mics and such.
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 05:29:13 pm »

Aside from what I think could be a terrible architectural design, I think you will want delay systems for the last 6 or 7 rows. Up high under the lower ceiling like that the main arrays may not cut it. That is a lot of vertical angle to cover and it is easy to shortchange the back rows.

I would rather see the diagonal back walls be smaller which would reduce the reflections and increase the seating area, and there doesn't seem to be enough backstage for any church offices, dressing rooms for visiting musical artists, storage for visiting artist roadboxes, prep areas for special events etc.

The gear is all fine.
Mac

There's more to the facility which has church offices, and bridal prep area etc. I do agree that there are too many seats on the riser vs what's on the floor (thus leading to that long diagonal wall). I tried to get more storage in the backstage..but that didn't go as planned. :-)

I send the question about delays to the designer. The problem is cost.

I'd also suggest that if front row coverage is important (which it is in most churches, because thats where the leadership sit) you might consider some kind of center downfill/frontfill solution.

There's 7 JBL AC-15 speakers on stage for the front 2-3 seats.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. God bless. Happy Easter.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 05:50:49 pm »


I send the question about delays to the designer. The problem is cost.

Then maybe you need to be looking at a different type of system-ie not line array.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

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Arthur Skudra

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 05:59:02 pm »

Justin,
If cost is an issue, you're better off with a well designed point source system than with cool looking line array.  You're essentially having to mix mono anyway with any line array design in here, so why not do mono REALLY well with a really good point source system, with a delay ring for the amphitheater style seats at the back?
Also what concerns me is all the parallel surfaces in the octagon shaped room, some simple splaying of walls can go a long way towards alleviating some echo problems that will certainly occur.
Arthur
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 07:21:50 pm »

I'm in agreement with a few posters on this thread.  Delays are probably going to be needed for the back of the space.  A line array, especially a compact one like the 4886, is not necessarily the best option for this space.  Considering at the height at which it will be flown and how far into the house it will be I think the seating area on the main floor will not be covered as well as it should be.  The AC-15s will fill the first row or two but that's about it. 
Also it doesn't appear the width of the venue has been taken into consideration.  I'm skeptical that the line array positions, as drawn, will cover the width of the venue well enough to give even coverage in the seating areas. 
The more I look at this the more I think a point source system deployed properly would cover the space much better. 
An aside - It's too bad that more spaces are taking the "award show" approach to stages by not desiring or allowing any ground stacks at all on the stage.  Ground stacks still have a place in designing and deploying a system for optimum coverage.  I've experienced first hand house systems that don't spec ground stacks to help cover the main floor.  Management and patrons were much happier once ground stacks were purchased and deployed. 
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Justin Philip

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Re: Need advice on given design for new facility
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 10:52:30 pm »

I will talk with the designer about all the suggestions that has come up so far.

Also he recommended PRX stage monitors. Are those ok? I have seen some posts about the angle being weird. I was hoping for SRX or STX but it's a lot more per channel once you add in the required amps.

Any other powered monitors that you guys recommend instead of PRX?
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