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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => Road Test FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 11, 2007, 04:02:30 am

Title: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 11, 2007, 04:02:30 am
I had my first gig tonight with a package of ADRaudio Road Test demo speakers and they sound great! The package is two compact 10" x 1.4" tops, two 18" compact subs and two 12" coaxial wedges. All self-powered; they use Icepower modules.

http://www.coestudios.com/custom/images/jerry2.jpg
Jerry Coe

The gig I chose for this Road Test was an old-timey barn dance with American folk songs performed live by 6-10 musicians plus a caller on wireless headset mic for the reels and square dances. My friend Jerry Coe throws the party at his Berkeley metal smithy so I've known about it but have never offered to mix it because most of my gigs are much bigger and I don't own enough gear to pull it off alone--I mix on other people's gear.

This time was different because Alex and Franci of ADRaudio met up with me at a party thrown by PSW at the recent AES convention in SF and said words to the effect "keep an eye on us--something's coming." When their speaker design effort was ready, Bennett Prescott got me the shipment of speakers for demo purposes and I thought "Hey, I could use these guys on the Coe Studios barn dance!" It's a perfect match because the room is just the right size for a pair of 10" tops plus sub and the stage requirements are modest enough so that two 12" wedges are fully satisfying. This is the kind of gig where the musicians listen very intensely to each other. It's also the kind of gig where the audience has discriminating taste in sound. The kind of tough crowd I like.  Cool

index.php/fa/7902/0/

The space is big enough for 50 people to dance close-packed or 24 to dance with some freedom of movement. About 100 people could have been expected. I set the two U103 speakers on tripods in the corners and I set the single ATA118 subwoofer at the corner nearest the stage. I didn't feel that I needed more than one subwoofer at the gig. Also, my little Ford Focus might not be able to fit two subs in the backseat! I could have tried harder but when one fit I was happy. This is not jungle or drum'n'bass... it's folk.  Very Happy  Lastly, I put two M1225s on the corners of the stage for criss-cross monitoring such that anything on the left would be pumped through the right speaker and things on the right would show up in the left speaker. Very basic. Since the sub was at the corner of the stage, I put a wedge on top of it. I was looking to get a shallow angle from the wedges and they have a perfectly angled part of the box but when I set the wedges on this segment they tipped forward. Their center of gravity is too far forward if you want to use the shallow angle. Not to worry, the lads at the metal shop found some wood blocks to put under the front so as to give us the desired angle.

Most of the instruments were pretty loud on their own. Banjo wasn't piped into the PA very much at all. Stand up bass needed the PA; I sent it to the mains and to one of the stage wedges and it was the only thing going to the aux-fed subwoofer. There were three vocal mics and everything else was miked for the recording I was making. I ended up putting everything into the PA even if it was just a little taste.

The caller used one of the cheaper Shure wireless headset mics. I gated it mildly with the Rane G4 gate sidechain narrowed down to just looking at vocal freqs and I also tuned the headset mic for anti-feedback with an inserted Ashly parametric EQ. Sounded a little hissy/noisy/overcompanded but usable. Nothing special. Not even the best speakers will be able to make a mic like this one sound great. You have to start with great first.

During my setup I noticed that the board (a MixWiz 16:2) wasn't showing hot enough level for my taste. The MixWiz wasn't putting enough juice into the Ashly digital EQ/crossover feeding the tops and sub nor was it putting enough juice into the Peavey MediaMatrix that I was using for PEQ and GEQ on mons. I could hear a hair too much hiss in the speakers. All of these ADRaudio speakers are at full gain all the time just like Meyer speakers so I decided to put a 10dB pad behind each speaker just like I do with Meyers boxes in similar situations where I don't expect to need all of the available gain. I could have put the XLR pads down in my rack following the EQs that feed the speakers but by this time my FOH position was pretty much stuck in place and hard to get to. I was placed next to a giant immovable trip-hammer made in 1895 in Boston and if I leaned down behind my FOH EQ I would cover my arm (again) in a century's worth of metal dust and cutting oil.  Confused  THAT'S why my XLR 10dB pads are behind the speakers.  Razz

(Another weird thing about FOH position is that there were bottles of scary liquids on a shelf right above the laptops. Things labeled "Liver of Sulphur". "Copper Sulphate" and "15% Nitric Acid." Love those metal shop guys.)

The speakers sound great! They didn't have any hidden 'gotchas' and they were very smooth at the higher peaks. Their limiting was beginning to kick in (I went around behind them to look at the LEDs on the back) but these limiters are gentle which means they start a little early so that by the time you get to the box's peak you are fully engaging the limiter. I was just tickling them--I had plenty of headroom left.

I kept getting compliments all night from the dancers and musicians on the high quality sound.

Thanks to Bennett Prescott for ironing out the delivery kinks to get me this set of Road Test speakers. Thanks to Lee Brenkman who provided the A&H MixWiz, the Ultimate stands and the EWI snake. Thanks to Alex and Franci at ADRaudio who have designed a very pleasing set of speakers!

-Bink
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 11, 2007, 06:41:31 am
Quote:

...I was placed next to a giant immovable trip-hammer made in 1895 in Boston and if I leaned down behind my FOH EQ I would cover my arm (again) in a century's worth of metal dust and cutting oil...

...(Another weird thing about FOH position is that there were bottles of scary liquids on a shelf right above the laptops. Things labeled "Liver of Sulphur". "Copper Sulphate" and "15% Nitric Acid." Love those metal shop guys.)...


Talking about "non-conventional" gig....
I wonder if all those Jerry Coles hand tools jingled and rattled during acts...
Smile

Wish I was there

Alex
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 11, 2007, 10:30:35 am
Quote:

...I wonder if all those Jerry Coles hand tools jingled and rattled during acts...


I was afraid the metal shop would rattle and sound tinny but it was not a problem. Maybe it's because the tools were so heavy. Actually, it sounded warm and wooden in that space.  Smile



Alex, I liked the horn patterns of both your U103 and your M1225. The 12" coaxial pattern was nice and wide--I could hear detail in the wedge mix when I walked up to the edge of the stage to talk to the performers.

index.php/fa/7903/0/
M1225 upside-down at Stage Right.

-Bink
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Philip Roberts on February 11, 2007, 03:13:26 pm
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sun, 11 February 2007 04:02

Another weird thing about FOH position is that there were bottles of scary liquids on a shelf right above the laptops. Things labeled "Liver of Sulphur". "Copper Sulphate" and "15% Nitric Acid." Love those metal shop guys.


Wow, I hope that bottle of Nitric Acid wasn't full, even a tiny drop of Nitric acid an do an number on skin. (I was a chem. major for a while and yes I've gotten nitric acid burns)

From the sounds of the various review here I'd like some of the ADR wedges for the church I work with however they are a little out of my price range. Sad


Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Bennett Prescott on February 11, 2007, 03:31:24 pm
Bink, thanks for the kind words, and for being so supportive with that shipping mixup. Glad you liked the off-axis response, Alex takes evenness off axis very seriously, since that's often where the majority of the audience (and probably you too!) is going to be. I understand you've got a number of shows lined up to use this gear on, and I'm glad that you'll be able to put it to good use. I hope Lee was able to get a listen in as well.

Interesting wedge use, though, that's a new one for me. I've used them on the face opposite the handle so that they were perpendicular to the stage for front fill use, and they're stable that way, but I'd never have thought to use that "other" angle!

Here's an example from a show I did with Jim Bowersox and Brian Bolly in a wide, shallow venue:
index.php/fa/7905/0/
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 11, 2007, 06:29:46 pm
Quote:

...I'd never have thought to use that "other" angle!...


Hey, no problem. I definitely would NOT want to see some ballast added to the wedge with CG correction as a goal. The wedges are surprisingly light and I wouldn't go changing THAT.  Very Happy

-Bink
Title: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 12, 2007, 11:23:09 pm
The veteran road warriors among you will laugh at this but for me this is new territory. Like I said earlier, I mix on other people's gear which means I don't normally try to fit speakers into my little Ford Focus car.

index.php/fa/7926/0/

These shots were taken in the brief sunny time before the frequent downpours got started on this rainy day in the Bay.

Top shot is a U103 top box in the passenger seat. When I scooted the front seat back to lock in the subwoofer there was enough room on the passenger's floormat for another M1225 wedge but the two I had both fit in the trunk so... In the trunk is a U103 on the left behind the never-used red gas can and two M1225s on the right. It's not as easy to see the one that's deeper in the trunk but it's there. The bottom part of the picture is the single ATA118 subwoofer that was able to fit in my back seat. I took a closer look at the headroom in the car and there's no way I could ever stand them up to fit two of the subwoofers in the same carload. The PowerCon cables are next to the sub.

Go ahead, laugh. My carload of speakers can kick your carload of speakers's butt.  Very Happy

-Bink
Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Peter Etheredge on February 13, 2007, 07:30:14 am
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Mon, 12 February 2007 22:23



Go ahead, laugh. My carload of speakers can kick your carload of speakers's butt.  Very Happy

-Bink



Laughing  You're carload of speakers is also worth more than the car that they are loaded into!

Then again, were possible to fit my rig into my '95 Nissan Sentra my lowly Yami Clubs and 608's would still be worth more than the car  Sad
Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 15, 2007, 03:37:28 pm
Maybe two documented applications would be in order :

Top : side fill (same on stage left) gives good feel of sound on stage, so individual monitoring through wedges doesn't have to be so "comprehensive" any more...also provides needed LF energy, which is simply not present on stage if cardioid subs are part of main rig.

Bottom : Properly splayed and properly "dimmed" speakers just in front of first row of audience are essential, to make front row spectators happy...I don't have to mention, who those people usually are...

Alex


index.php/fa/7980/0/
edit : spelling (priperly-properly)
Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on February 16, 2007, 07:48:57 pm
Ales Dravinec 'Alex' wrote on Thu, 15 February 2007 12:37

to make front row spectators happy...I don't have to mention, who those people usually are...

Alex


? Buttheads? For being willing to pay way too much?
Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Lee Brenkman on February 17, 2007, 01:09:34 pm
Tony Tissot wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 16:48

Ales Dravinec 'Alex' wrote on Thu, 15 February 2007 12:37

to make front row spectators happy...I don't have to mention, who those people usually are...

Alex


? Buttheads? For being willing to pay way too much?




More options...

Friends and Family of the Band?

Attractive women planted by artist management to get the artists "in the mood"?

Record company guests?

And the most important people down in the "front lines"

Big burly security guys!

Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 17, 2007, 01:47:40 pm
Lee Brenkman wrote on Sat, 17 February 2007 12:09


And the most important people down in the "front lines"

Big burly security guys!


LOL Lee.... I can't count how many times I've put out additional front fill at the BE's request, only to have them blocked by security personel.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Pascal Pincosy on February 20, 2007, 03:38:21 pm
Hopefully Bink doesn't mind me barging in on his thread but the topic seems apt. I did a couple of gigs last Saturday with the ADRaudio gear and overall I'm pretty impressed.

The first show was a memorial celebration consisting of a few speakers, an opera singer, a taiko drummming group, belly dancing, and ending with DJ's. The event took place in San Francisco's Bandshell in Golden Gate Park. The ADRaudio speakers were set up on the stage at the bandshell for the speakers and performance, and my sound system was set up off to the side for the DJ's. I used an ATA 118 in the center and a U 103 on each side covering an audience of about 400 people. A single M 1225 did monitor duty front and center. I ran the rig with no processing or EQ at all on the mains.

The event was a bit better attended than I'd expected, so I was pretty happy that the U 103's had no problem covering the crowd with headroom to spare, even during the musical portions. These tops are really nice! Clean and clear, but with a nice warm feel to them. I'm in agreement with Bink though about how the tops and subs combine: there seemed to be a bit too much mid-bass, and the sub energy felt a bit boomy. I wish I had more feedback about the speakers from this gig, but I was busy setting up the other system during much of the event. We did get a number of compliments about the system from attendees, which I think is pretty indicative of their quality considering there was no EQ or processing.

Later that night I used the U 103's as DJ monitors for an indoor techno party. I was more than a bit concerned that with only a 10" on lows that they wouldn't hold up, so I had a set of Mackie SRM 450's ready as backup in case the ADR cabinets proved insufficient. Under hard limiting the 10" would noticibly distort, but the highs stayed clean and clear. Were I to use them in this capacity again, I would want a HPF inserted so that the 10" wouldn't have such strain put on it. However, they were "just" loud enough to hold their own sitting 2 feet behind a pair of Bassmaxx Trip 12's. Any more system than this and they would have been insufficient (as would the Mackies, for the record.) I'll definitely be considering the larger U 154's for purchase when they become available. Bennett, please put me on the list for a demo when you get those cabinets stateside.

Overall my only quibble with these speakers is the warranty length, which is currently 2 years. EONA ADRaudio is obviously setting themselves up as the Meyer alternative for those seeking quality speakers with a bit less sticker shock. I'd like to see them meet, if not exceed, the standard 3 year warranty Meyer delivers.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Lee Brenkman on February 20, 2007, 04:32:16 pm
Pascal,

Good to read your report.

Really glad they survived the Techno party.    I'm looking forward to using them for the 'cabaret singer with band and CHOIR' show at "Mrs. Grampa's" old high school next week.

Lee
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 20, 2007, 04:39:50 pm
Hey Pascal !

I'm glad you get to use the gear in a "real world" situation. Obviously it's the only meaningful way, to evaluate it. Thanks.

I have to say a few words about U103HH/ATA118HH "compatibility":

We designed U103 to be rather full range...with built in HPF at 80's and 2nd order slope, while ATA118 encloses also 2nd order LPF at 90's. Those two filters respectively were designed in that manner, that allow more flexibility, when combining different powered speakers from our range. This is also the reason we designed small(ish) "system integrator", which enables sound engineer to additionally low pass the sub(s) at 70Hz 2nd order Q=0,86 and flip the polarity on those (when applicable), to achieve the smoothest transition between high and low units. By inserting 4th order LPF inside subs, we would make them more "subby", but less versatile....I'm sorry you didn't have a chance to use ASI23, but we ran out of those demos.

About the warranty issue :

Default two years warranty is obviously the standard, but due to the fact, that all our strategic parts manufacturers stand by us completely in terms of being ready to replace "bad" parts, we put extended warranty clause in our warranty statement already.

Keep in touch !

Alex

(edit : ASI23 LPF data added)
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 20, 2007, 05:25:21 pm
Great hearing about your gigs, Pascal. I was busy with a promised day of hiking in the redwoods with the wife so I couldn't follow you out to GGPk to listen to the gig.

Wow! U103 on top of Trip 12. That's some crazy bassomatic set of Texas headphones. I probably would have used front loaded subs for that purpose so the DJ gets more impact up close. And I would have HPFed the top boxes. But the onboard limiters did their jobs and the boxes live to gig another day.  Cool

-Bink
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Pascal Pincosy on February 20, 2007, 05:39:51 pm
Lee Brenkman wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 21:32


Really glad they survived the Techno party.


Ivan Beaver termed my use of sound systems as 'abusive' I think. But outside of about 20 or so 18" subs over the years, I haven't blown a speaker driver yet. Rolling Eyes  It did take me a while to figure out that most subs shouldn't be run much over RMS wattage for 36 hours straight when playing compressed dance music...

Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Pascal Pincosy on February 20, 2007, 05:55:50 pm
Hey Bink, just to make clear, the U 103's were doing monitor duty for the DJ by themselves. The TRIP's were placed center right in front of the DJ with a pair of my modified PAS RS 2.2's for tops. I can't even begin to consider the need to use a pair of TRIP's for DJ monitors under any circumstance. Shocked

One of the cool features of the Mackie SRM 450's is that they have a switchable HPF @ 75Hz. This allows you to cut out the low end and gives the 12" a little more breathing room when being run to their limits. And since there's plenty of sub energy everywhere in the room, those frequencies aren't likely to be missed in the monitors.

Obviously, this isn't the intended use for the U 103, but it's nice to know it can handle it in a pinch. Did I mention that the highs stayed crisp and clean even under heavy limiting?
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Bennett Prescott on February 20, 2007, 07:42:47 pm
Pascal, thanks for the kind review, I'm glad you had a chance to beat up our stuff.

As Alex has already said, the low pass in the subs is intentionally low-order and at a moderately high frequency of 90hz to make them more flexible. For most applications we offer our ASI23 which has a 70hz 2nd order low pass for the subs (to match them to the U103s), unfortunately we're out of stock on those at the moment. When I get more in March I'll get one out to your area.

We take support very seriously and consider it a very important component of any speaker buying decision. As such, our standard warranty is already 3 years, and we may consider extending it again or offering an extended warranty once we've got a little more field time under our belts.

I should have U153s in the US shortly after Musikmesse, and would be happy to make some available to you.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Elliot Thompson on February 21, 2007, 07:34:56 am
Hey Pascal.

It's ashame you didn't have the EONA 618 at your disposal. To the 118, it's like comparing mini van to a semi truck in terms of performance, power and, quality.

If you can get your hands on a pair (If Bennet has four in his inventory all the better) you won't be disappointed.


Best Regards,
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 21, 2007, 08:22:50 am
Quote:

...shame you didn't have the EONA 618 at your disposal. To the 118, it's like comparing mini van to a semi truck...


Pascal's probably more interested in how the 618 compares to the Trip which he does have in inventory. If there's a turntablist at the event you typically want to keep excessive LF energy off the platters so the needles don't jump out of the groove. What has more LF directionality: two Trip12s or two ATA618Cs? It would be interesting to measure this, especially after David Lee's expressed concerns regarding subwoofer marketing and the words 'cardioid' and 'directional.' Real world data needed.

-Bink
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Pascal Pincosy on February 21, 2007, 11:07:28 am
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Wed, 21 February 2007 13:22

Pascal's probably more interested in how the 618 compares to the Trip which he does have in inventory. If there's a turntablist at the event you typically want to keep excessive LF energy off the platters so the needles don't jump out of the groove. What has more LF directionality: two Trip12s or two ATA618Cs?


I'm sure either cabinet would provide more than adaquate directionality. These days I use a fluid damping system on my turntables that suspends the tonearm in a bath of liquid silicone. I don't really have problems with needles skipping anymore. The big plus with directionality for me is being able to aim the sound away from problem spots, like angry neighbors or adjacent sound systems.

But if ADRaudio wants to send me some ATA618C's for demo, Love Parade SF is in late September. Nothing like a 60,000 person event for positive exposure, and there's plenty of great gear there to compare with.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Bennett Prescott on February 21, 2007, 01:09:54 pm
Pascal, I imagine by September there will be enough gear on the west coast that we can work something out for you. I've got a few large festivals on this coast that month as well, but if you get me dates as we get closer I'll do my best to hook you up.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Aaron McQueen on February 21, 2007, 03:46:21 pm
Quote:

I'm in agreement with Bink though about how the tops and subs combine: there seemed to be a bit too much mid-bass, and the sub energy felt a bit boomy.


I've been using this system with the Bennett Prescott Signature Series ASI23.  As Bennett said the 70Hz filter on the ASI23 does make the tops the and subs combine better.  Actually they work very well together.  Most who have heard the system, did not realize there were subs until I pointed them out.  However they were well hidden.  The ASI23 also provides volume control (I ran the subs about 3db down from the tops), mutes, an invert for the subs (which also helped in my situation to align the subs better with the tops), separate input for the subs, link outs, and apparently some really nice line drivers.  I hooked up the system with and without the ASI23 and it does sound better with the ASI23.

I'll post some pictures tonight with a more in depth review of the rest of the system.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Mike Pyle on February 25, 2007, 01:57:12 pm
Bink will be bringing some of the ADRaudio rig over to my monthly swing dance in Oakland tonight. If anyone in the area wants to give these a listen, give me a call today and I'll put your name on the guest list. This is a DJ gig with a wide variety of musical genre in a fair sized historic dancehall. We plan to set the U103s up alongside some RCF ART322As I often use for comparison, and use the ADRaudio sub.

Address is the Lake Merritt Veteran's Hall at 200 Grand Avenue in Oakland, CA. That's the corner of Grand and Harrison. We'll have music playing from 6:30pm - 10:ish in the main ballroom, Sunday 2/25/2007.

My number is 707-315-6204. Call before 6:00pm if you can, otherwise I'll be occupied.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 25, 2007, 02:15:54 pm
Mike Pyle wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 10:57

Bink will be bringing some of the ADRaudio rig over to my monthly swing dance in Oakland tonight. If anyone in the area wants to give these a listen, give me a call today and I'll put your name on the guest list. This is a DJ gig with a wide variety of musical genre in a fair sized historic dancehall. We plan to set the U103s up alongside some RCF ART322As I often use for comparison, and use the ADRaudio sub.

Address is the Lake Merritt Veteran's Hall at 200 Grand Avenue in Oakland, CA. That's the corner of Grand and Harrison. We'll have music playing from 6:30pm - 10:ish in the main ballroom, Sunday 2/25/2007.

My number is 707-315-6204. Call before 6:00pm if you can, otherwise I'll be occupied.


http://www.thegantelope.com/images/Bleyer-Charleston.jpg

Yeah, come on down. Wear your Swing shoes if you have 'em.  Cool

-Bink
Title: Mike Pyle's DJing: RCF 322a vs. ADRaudio U103
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 26, 2007, 10:51:40 am
Hats off to Mike Pyle's skills (skilz?) as a DJ. The man reads the crowd like a hawk and selects the right song every time. He never puts it on autopilot so he can take a break. Nope! He doesn't get on the mic between songs to encourage the crowd; he lets his tunes do the talking. This crowd doesn't need further encouraging... they clearly enjoy both the familiar and the more unusual tunes Mike throws at them. In case you don't know what West Coast Swing is, it's not retro swing craze stuff. It's a wide mix of rock, pop and blues songs chosen especially for their stretchy rubberband swing feel. Lots of the latest songs were in the rotation. Very fun.

Thanks for the peek into your world, Mike!

On to ADRaudio speakers... Mike usually uses the venue's Yorkville NS200 for sub and brings his RCF322a speakers for tops. I heard him getting warmed up last month and he gets a fine sound of the RCFs. This time, Mike thought it would be interesting to set up four tripods instead of two so that we could alternate between RCF 322a and ADRaudio U103 to get a sense of the differences. Mike opted to use only the ADRaudio ATA118 subwoofer and gave the house's sub the night off. All the speakers were fed from Mike's JBL DSC260 so that we could use its front mutes to select which speakers were working.

It was clear to us that both speakers were suited for this gig. The RCFs had some added low end in the 100-160 range (just guessing, no RTA this time) and the U103s were quite linear. The U103s also had a little cleaner HF horn sound, where the RCFs had a bit of sizzle or something added. Mike used Ultimate stands with his own (hefty!) welded angle irons and I found it much easier to put the ADRaudio boxes up on the tripods. The RCFs handle is too high and only on one side. Also, the RCF xlr is very high up and tough for me to reach when on the pole.

When setting up we alternated between boxes so we could dial in a crossover setting and balance the apparent loudness. When the gig started, Mike chose to go with the U103s. Two or three times during the dance he/we changed to the RCFs for comparison and we heard the augmented bass porting of the 322a boxes. Out on the floor it was fun to get the clarity of the U103 but the 322a didn't disappoint the crowd: basically it was just Mike and I who could hear the higher quality in the U103.

My gig's about to start so my post ends here. More thoughts as they come!

-Bink
Title: Re: Mike Pyle's DJing: RCF 322a vs. ADRaudio U103
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 26, 2007, 01:57:36 pm
Mike and Bink !

Thank you for your trust, when you decided to give U103's a 'stroll'.

After being almost 'beat to death' on DJ monitor duty,..., Pascal, thanks for your trust too,..., boxes needed to perform in more 'conservative' manner.

I wanted to point out, that U103s were designed for purposes like Mike's ball, where you do not need exactly 'roaring' power, but moderate levels with emphasis on sound quality. This is where built in amplifiers with high(er) peak capabilities count.

It is never easy to put a finger on one product's benefit or downside in performance...the path, that leads me to learn to analyze or even judge, is the one, that is appealing.

I truly hope, that you enjoyed the event.

Alex

P.s.: 'where' did you chose to LP the ATA118 ? 'subby' or 'bangy'?
Title: Re: Mike Pyle's DJing: RCF 322a vs. ADRaudio U103
Post by: Mike Pyle on February 26, 2007, 02:45:07 pm
Thanks for the dance review, Bink!

I pretty much agree with Bink's assessment of the tonal differences between the U103s and the RCF ART322A cabs. The RCF had a rounder bass characteristic and the high frequency sounded somewhat colored compared to the crispy clear top end of the ADRaudio cabs. One thing about the RCF cabs is that they have DSP eq "presets", which I generally leave at the nominal "flat" setting. I understand the ADRaudio cabs have analog processing built in, which from the sound of the cabinets is very well implemented. They are great sounding cabinets. We did not approach limiting at any point.

Bink, the RCF cabs do have 2 side handles. The carry bag only has a flap on one side though, so I understand your misperception. It should be noted that the stands used were the TS99B Ultimates, which along with my tilters made it high enough to have to stretch to place the cabs. With a standard TS90 stand or similar, either of these cabs would be very easy to handle.

The ATA118 kicked ass. Very nice, tight, deep response with no bonk or tubbiness. We crossed it at 91 Hz LR12. Early in the evening I was getting some stage resonance and used a 40 hz highpass, but as the place got more crowded I dropped that into the 30s. I did run it lower later on so we could hear some music with deep bass drops and it put a smile on our faces.
Title: Re: Mike Pyle's DJing: RCF 322a vs. ADRaudio U103
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 26, 2007, 04:35:23 pm
Ales Dravinec 'Alex' wrote on Mon, 26 February 2007 10:57

... 'where' did you chose to LP the ATA118 ? 'subby' or 'bangy'?


Mike took my advice and tried 91Hz LR12 so that the sub reaching that high would ease the workload on the U103 a little bit. U103s were HPFed at 91Hz LR12. U103s were about 8 meters apart and the ATA118 was in the middle in front of the stage but closer to the dancers by about 2 meters. We delayed the U103s by 5ms plus the DSC260 latency of about 1.2ms. This is because a couple weeks ago I pumped impulses through both the U103 and the ATA118 and found that when their front grilles are lined up in the same plane, I needed about 11ms of delay on the U103 to make the impulse times line up in Smaart. Or it could have been my test setup.  Neutral

Whatever: when I have a sub that is physically far from my top boxes I don't get so particular about crossover timing.   Razz

-Bink
Title: EONA ADRaudio in Church
Post by: Aaron McQueen on February 27, 2007, 01:36:31 pm
Hopefully it is ok if piggy back on this thread as well.  We have been using the original Road Test demo system in our church for about a month now (it's going back to Jim B. this week  Sad ).  The setup consisted of a Yamaha MG32/14FX, an Aphex quad compressor, all Sennheiser mics and wireless, and the ASI 23 system integrator was used as a volume control and an added crossover for the subs.  The system was run as full range, and not aux fed.  We ran everything off a single 20A circuit.

We placed the U103's on stands on either side of the stage.  We initially had them on the floor, but our cheap speakers stands made  them a little shaky so we moved them to the stage and shorted the stands which gave us a little more height as well.  The subs were placed just wide of the U103's between the altar in the stage.  They were out of sight and out of mind which is the way we like it.  We wanted to couple the subs but with steps down the middle that wasn't possible so they were set on either side, which did cause some power alley issues, but it was not that bad.

Here are some pictures of the setup:
http://www.laurelfirstassembly.org/media/ADRaudio  

We used the system a total of six times a week with 4 services and 2 practices each week.  During a normal service we never hit the clip lights and we were running the tops about 3dB down and the subs about 6dB down.  One sub more centrally located would have been fine for this room.

First impressions were WOW!  It sounded great.  The tops and subs combined well.  The were very clear and smooth sounding.  After listening to some music through them for a while I found that they were a little harsh in the upper range.  After discussing it with Bennett, and he did some tests of his own, he and Alex sent me a modification to the PEQ board.  I did the mod and it resulted in smoother highs and better mid range punch.  The clarity of the system allowed us to run the system a little hotter then we normally run things, and most did not realize any change in perceived loudness.

As I noted in another post, I think the star of the system is the monitors.  They are very nice sounding.  They are lightweight, go low, get loud, have good wide coverage, and have great detail. My  opinion of the monitors could be biased as I spent most of time behind the monitors, playing bass. The subs are a close second with good weight and a really solid low end, that easily produced my low B on my 5 string.

This past weekend we took the system to a three day youth retreat (i'll post pictures tonight).  It worked out great.  This setup was a Yamaha 01V96, mics etc, and the ADRaudio system.  Here we coupled the subs under the large screen.  This was a group of about 200.  There were 4 services over the 3 days, but the ADR's were basically running the entire time between services.  The limit lights were barely flashing on the mains and there was plenty of headroom left.  The subs performed much better coupled and we kept having to dial them back.  The first night we ran full range.  The room had tons of echo, and the vocals were a little muddy.  We switched to Aux fed subs, which the ASI 23 allows for and that helped clean things up a bit.  The kick drum had a D6 on it and it sounded incredible through the 2 ATH 118's.

Overall we were rather impressed with ADRaudio system.  Thanks to Bennett and Alex for letting us use the system.  It allowed us to play better and allowed our congregation to hear what good sound can be.  It has prompted some new purchases and a new attitude toward quality sound in our church.  Hopefully I was able to proved needed feedback to Bennett and Alex.
Title: Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on February 27, 2007, 01:50:31 pm
Quote:

...After listening to some music through them for a while I found that they were a little harsh in the upper range.  After discussing it with Bennett, and he did some tests of his own, he and Alex sent me a modification to the PEQ board.  I did the mod and it resulted in smoother highs and better mid range punch...


The way I heard it, the mod you performed wasn't exactly a product modification, it was an early production run QC burp that you corrected. Now that your tops are 'modded' they are actually returned to 'standard.'

Glad to hear your demonstration of quality audio prompted the venue budget to open up a little. Too bad it didn't open up a lot.  Razz

-Bink
Title: Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 27, 2007, 03:00:47 pm
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 18:50

...The way I heard it, the mod you performed wasn't exactly a product modification, it was an early production run QC burp that you corrected. Now that your tops are 'modded' they are actually returned to 'standard.'...

-Bink


Thanks Bink, I always liked your choice of appropriate words.
And yes, two mods needed to be performed on Aaron's system : one was 'simple' production burp correction, and the second one was removing of HF driver's signature peak in 14 to 15K area. First one was a necessity, second one was a matter of decision and field showed that it was the right one.

Thank you Aaron to perform this for us. The system you use was the first ever sent to US, so after extensive field use record showed, that few 'mild' corrections were in order.

At this point I'd like to thank also Jim Bowersox and Brian Bolly for their efforts and trust !


index.php/fa/8159/0/
image :courtesy of Brian Bolly

Alex

...yes, both Aaron and Bink now have equivalent U103s, so the discussion is about the same speaker.  Razz
Title: Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on February 27, 2007, 03:12:47 pm
Aaron !

What's there to say...Audrey is an angel !

index.php/fa/8160/0/

Alex
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Lee Brenkman on March 17, 2007, 01:04:52 am
This adventure started with me meeting Bink in the parking lot of the Veterans Building near Lake Merritt in Oakland late at night after Mike Pyle's demo ot the Speakers.  We succesfully put two tops  two  wedges and one sub into my car.

My apologies for taking so long to write this up and further regrets that I can't spice up my report with a bunch of nice pictures like Bink does.

But now, weeks in the making welcome to...

"Grampa's Truly  Excellent Adventure with the ADRaudio package"  or "Back to High School"

My test drive with the ADRaudio speakers originally intended to be three very different shows collapsed into one show over two days when the Venezuelan Jazz Singer got sick and the Chinese Pipa player and her ensemble canceled their tour.

So it was down to a benefit performance in an circa 1933 high school auditorium with cabaret singer Debbie Decoudreaux  

http://www.debbiedecoudreax.com.

I was originally called about this show by old friend and colleague Brian Connoly, who among his other jobs, does sound for the San Francisco version or Teatro Zinzanni.

http://\love.zinzanni.org/

Debbie, who has done a couple of runs as "Madame Zinzanni" in that show had been asked to do a benefit concert for her old high school in the Oakland hills and asked Brian to make sure the sound was right.

Brian called me asking if I was willing to help out not knowing that my wife, known hereabouts as "Mrs. Grampa" not only was a graduate of the same school, but was in the same graduating class as Debbie.

So how could I refuse?

First technical note.  My wife's yearbook from that year shows the auditorium with a pair of University column speakers.  They are still there :-0!  Although the amplifier has been upgraded to a TOA 900 series mixer/amp sometime in the last 37 years.

Brian's original plan was to bring in a pair of Yorkville TX3 speakers for main FOH but when the U 103s became available I suggested that we use them instead.

Although most of the band was locally based SF Area musicians, Debbie's collaborator/pianist/conductor from New York was coming out for the show and she wanted to rehearse the day before the concert.   Brian was committed to another job so on Wednesday I loaded up the trusty Honda Accord and headed up the hill to the school.

Brian and I decided that I would take the ADRaudio rig for the rehearsal day and he would bring in  a snake, some more monitors and IF I decided that it was needed the ATA 118 sub in his van the next day.

Yes, all both of the U 103s and both of the M 1225 wedges fit in the trunk of a 2000 Honda.  The mike and speaker stands rode in their bags in the foot well of the back seat, the Allen and Heath MixWiz and the small rack with my dbx Driverack480 and the all important Rock and Roller cart rode on the back seat.  The microphones, duffle bag of cables and my "everything else" backpack rode on the front passenger seat.

Upon arrival at the school I found that the "easy" load in was up six stairs to the front doors and then up 14 more stairs to the hallway at the front of the auditorium.  

The only elevator on site is in the convent and is reached by driving further up the hill into the school yard, through the cafeteria into the convent.  

I decided, given the amount of time before the desired rehearsal to just carry everything up the stairs.  The U 103s are not light but the handles are in a good place balance wise so it wasn't all THAT hard.  The M 1225s are nicely light and balanced.  

The auditorium itself seats about 400 people on the main floor and another 100 or so in the balcony which wasn?t going to be used for this show.  It's walls are either granite, or concrete nicely finished to look like granite and was live, but not painfully so.  The seats were unupholstered wood, so I knew that there would be a lot of "mellowing out" acoustically when bodies filled those seats.

The setup on stage was a nice BIG Baldwin grand piano center stage with the drummer on a tall riser upstage, the bassist far stage right behind the pianists bench and the guitarist/accordion player and multi reed player stage left of the piano.

Behind the seated guitarist and the sax player was a three level choir riser for the student vocal ensemble that would join in on two or three selections.

So I went to work setting up the "rehearsal PA the U 103s went on Ulitmate tripods on the down stage corners  theM 1225s were spaced about 3 feet apart on the down stage edge.

The available AC power consisted of the one outlet under the above mentioned TOA mixer/amp and another all the way upstage left under a workbench.   Not what Dave would call "Varsity" but happily well enough grounded to power all four EONA powered boxes for this show along with the small guitar, bass and accordion amps.

I put the mixer and the 480 in front of the stage near the stage left stairs.  

I miked the piano with a pair of Sennheiser MD504s on Mic Eze clamps.  Not my first choice but something I"ve found works well when the lid must be fully closed on the piano for any number of reasons.   Here it was for sight lines to the drummer and to provide an ample table for a number of props and other items used in the show.

The sax got a Shure Beta 57a, the guitar amp an E609, and the accordion and bass went direct.   The star vocal was a Shure UHF with a Beta 58 capsule and the pianist got a Sennheiser 835 for his vocal mic.

After determining that theU 103 mains would be more than enough as house sound for the next evening's concert I turned the stage left box around so that the guitarist, saxophonist and drummer could hear the vocals better.    I assured them that more monitors would be coming the next day.

I also reassured the choral ensemble that there would indeed be microphones over them on the show day.

I also concluded that the drums would need very little reinforcement for this cabaret level performance and that the subs would not be a good idea.  This was definitely NOT rock 'n roll.

The next day Brian and I met  up half past noon to finish setting up.  He brought his brother Tom to help and since we had more time than I had the previous day and even more gear we took the "long way around" to that elevator in the convent.  It's a SMALL, OLD elevator so it meant multiple trips up to "auditorium level" but it beat the stairs.

To what I had loaded in the previous day we added Brian's outboard rack to replace my dbx driverack, tour Yorkville E10 wedges for the pianist, bassist,  guitarist and saxophonist and a Mackie SRM450 for the drummer.  A snake got Brian to a FOH position in the first "wheelchair pull" of seats halfway back on the left side of the auditorium.  

We added an AKG D112 on the kick and a Shure SM81 over the drums "just in case", an additional piano mike - AKG 451- and put a pair of Neumann KM84s on TALL K&M stands over the choir risers.

We had to be done by 3 pm so that the school orchestra could do their regular rehearsal on the floor in front of the stage, but since the call back for the musicians wasn?t until 6 pm we went out for a nice lunch.

Back to the venue before 5 we rung things out and got ready for the sound check.  I'd like to report some drama, but the biggest issue was Brian convincing the star that she didn?t need the foam windscreen she had requested and that  she really could work right on the mike if she wanted to.  We also fiddled with the positioning of the choir mikes.  Probably should have had more than two, but space was tight up there and we only had a 16 channel mixer to work with.

Now to the review...

The U 103s effortlessly put out more than enough quality audio to please nearly 400 alumni and supporters who heard a pretty dynamic show.  They sounded sweet at low volumes on the ballads and did not sound strained or distorted in any way on the up tempo ?belters?.  Mighty impressive for boxes that small.  From the back of the auditorium they looked like shoe boxes on sticks, but they filled the room.

We even put the drums in there more than we thought.

Debbie, and Brian and I were all impressed with the M 1225 monitors.  The only "tech note"  here is that the plastic feet slide around REAL easily on nicely polished hardwood stages.
Something a little more ?rubbery? might be more in order for the wedges.

Ales and Bennett, you have some very nice product there.

I'm sorry I couldn?t give the subs a workout with the Cajon at that Venezuelan singer's gig or hear how the whole rig reacted when fed a mix of jazz and traditional Chinese instruments.

And best of all my wife got to hang with her old classmate AND actually drink a glass of wine in the library of her own school.  

Any gig that makes the Mrs. willing to wait for me while I load out is a good one, eh?

Cheers,
Gramps


Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on March 17, 2007, 10:53:16 am
Nice gig, Lee. Quite the rainbow of gear with Yorkie, Mackie and ADRaudio boxes... and all those mics.

Did you happen to hear the old University columns? Just curious.  Twisted Evil

When Brian's rack replaced your DR480, what ended up being your house EQ? I bet that without subs there you didn't HPF the U103s--just let them run native.

Cheers -

-Bink
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Bennett Prescott on March 17, 2007, 05:28:50 pm
Lee Brenkman wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 01:04

The only "tech note"  here is that the plastic feet slide around REAL easily on nicely polished hardwood stages. Something a little more rubbery might be more in order for the wedges.

Thanks for the review, Lee, glad it all went well!

The wedge feet issue is something we're well aware of, we've just been having trouble sourcing an appropriately hardy substance to put on the bottom of our boxes. Ales has found some vulcanized rubber feet that he thinks will work well, very hard but a little tacky. We'll be shipping Bink some replacement feet, they're easy to install.

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 10:53

I bet that without subs there you didn't HPF the U103s--just let them run native.

That's what that 70hz HPF and limiters are for! I usually just LPF my subs and let the tops run low, unless I'm really going to be working the rig hard.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Scott Waldy on July 20, 2007, 01:39:55 pm
After a lot of tense moments, damn FedEx peolpe fudged up the pickup, I finally received the ARDAudio Road Test rig.  I will be using it tomorrow evening for a Rock-a-Billy band out at a 4X4 rally.  

When I first talked to Bennett, my main concern is... will 2 ATA118s & 2 U103 do an out door show for about 500 ish.  I do not think this will be enough.  As I am not expected to do ROCK CONCERT LEVELS with this group I am reluctantly going to give it the ol' college try.

I will post back on Sunday night with PICS!

Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Aaron McQueen on July 20, 2007, 01:46:38 pm
Couple the subs, get the U103 up high and then maybe use some front  fills.  I think you'll be surprised. Smile
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on July 20, 2007, 05:12:01 pm
Hey Scott !

Sorry to hear about the pickup mess-up.

Like Aaron said, couple the subs centered or on the side, which will provide you with the most of their capabilities.

Regarding U103s : Again like Aaron correctly suggested, lift them high enough. The only issue might be the needed coverage area : If you need to cover 'wider' than 'deeper' you should take into account, that horizontal pattern of 80-ish degrees can be limiting factor.

Scott Waldy wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 18:39

Wish me luck.


You know well enough, that it's got nothing to do with luck.
You'll do OK (Just did a similar type of act as you will with exactly the same gear for 400 people without issues)

Keep us posted
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on July 20, 2007, 05:26:31 pm
...coupled 118s...

index.php/fa/10217/0/
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Langston Holland on July 20, 2007, 05:40:09 pm
index.php/fa/10217/0/

Wow.

Your line array fell over. :)

That's a great way to get a long throw out of subs by directing more energy fore (and aft) while reducing output to the extreme sides where the top cabs aren't covering anyway.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Scott Waldy on July 22, 2007, 10:14:29 pm
I arrived at the venue (Motocross/Mud Drag complex out in the desert) late Friday afternoon for an outside evening show.  It took about 2 hours to set up the new stage along with the two 16' lighting towers/ branchless christmas trees trimmed up and ready to go.

I started setting up the gear.  I stacked the two ATA118 subs on top of each other in the center of the stage.  I stacked them vs. placing them side by side because I did not want people using them as stairs.  Next, the two U103s went up on stands as high as I could get them.  FOH was a A&H Mixwiz 16:3, a dbx 1231 and the Behringer DCX2496.  For the first time I decided to run the subs-on-an-aux.  I set the low & high pass filters @ 100Hz / 12db BW slope.  Although the dbx Eq. was in line for the tops, it was flat.

Running some canned music through them, I was pleasantly surprised. I ran some rock (Aerosmith, Styx), country (Charlie Daniels, Garth Brooks), pop (Nelly Fertado, Black Eyed Peas) through the boxes.  All of it was clean, clear and crisp (is that the name of a cereal? -  Laughing ). Every thing was right there.  Highs are not harsh at all with a smooth transition down to the mids.  The subs were tight and actually kept up with the tops. I had some reservations because of being outside.

The Knights band arrived . They are a rock-a-billy group playing old Elvis, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison type music.  So, we didn't have to be "full on" concert levels.  

The monitors that were sent were the M1225s.  They were very easy to throw up a mix in.  Once again I did not touch the Eq that was inline (dbx 231).  I actually ran them full range.  I did not cut them off as I would have normally.  I wanted to see if they would add to any stage rumble.  They did not seem to. The musicians complained that they had nothing to complain about.  The monitors were great. They could hear everything that I placed into the mix.  The vocals were easy to get on top and stayed there.

I had nothing, I repeat... nothing but compliments on the sound. These speakers helped me sew up the contract for the remaining 2 possibly 3 shows for this year, with talk already about next year.  Very Happy  

I am very impressed, Ales & Bennett.  Thank you for allowing me to experience these little gems.

Sorry, no pics.  Dumbutt me forgot the camera.  Embarassed

I am planning on using them on the August 5th show too and will have pics then, promise.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Scott Waldy on July 22, 2007, 10:18:26 pm
Ales Dravinec 'Alex' wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 15:26

...coupled 118s...




Ales, are those the ATA118s?  How many total?

My guess.... 14.  Razz

Scott
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Aaron McQueen on July 22, 2007, 10:33:52 pm
Quote:

FOH was a A&H Mixwiz 16:3, a dbx 1231 and the Behringer DCX2496. For the first time I decided to run the subs-on-an-aux. I set the low & high pass filters @ 100Hz / 12db BW slope.


On the next gig try taking the DCX2496 out.  The subs and tops are already crossed, and have built in eq and limiting (all analog processing).  Run them into limiters and they still sound good.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Bennett Prescott on July 22, 2007, 10:45:23 pm
Aaron McQueen wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 22:33

On the next gig try taking the DCX2496 out.  The subs and tops are already crossed, and have built in eq and limiting (all analog processing).  Run them into limiters and they still sound good.

Aaron,

The subs and tops are only crossed for protection and to keep them from reproducing signal way out of their bandpass. Since the ATA118 will happily spit out noise will into the 160Hz range and the U103 will make lots of thump down below 65Hz or so, that's usually a bunch more overlap than people want in their systems, it can get a little muddy. I've done it in a pinch, but in general it's best to cross the subs and tops separately to make them play well as one system.
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Aaron McQueen on July 22, 2007, 10:59:07 pm
Ok, sorry, I thought they both had an internal crossover at around 90Hz.  In fact the website says that the cutoff is 90Hz 2nd order for the ATA118.  Scott was applying a 100Hz / 12db BW slope, which sounds useless for the sub if it already has a 90Hz filter.  Maybe I'm confused.  I never used the setup without the ASI23 (also known as the BPSP). Very Happy
Title: Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
Post by: Bennett Prescott on July 22, 2007, 11:29:57 pm
Second order's pretty shallow, there's definitely some "free bandwidth" there you may not want. Adding another set of filters got Scott something like 4th order reponse, maybe, but in any case it certainly cleaned up the cross point (especially getting the U103s crossed higher).

The ASI23 BPSP (heh) has a 70hz LPF on the sub for a similar reason, and requires just the one filter to make that particular combination of equipment play nice. We're also using those ATA118 subs with, for instance, our L103 line array a lot though, which isn't designed to run standalone and thus doesn't go very low (85Hz), so if we crossed the subs to always work with the U103 they wouldn't go high enough to work with the L103. This way you get to choose!
Title: Waldy's Demo gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on July 23, 2007, 12:11:41 am
Cool! Nice to hear you had a good show. Not surprising, actually. How many peeps showed up?

The thing I really like about the U103s is the LF and HF.  Very Happy   The HF is stunningly clean for a compression driver hooked to a horn. Probably some voodoo/science going on in the phase plug to get it so crisp. The LF is pleasingly present all the way through its range without getting sloppy and unloaded at the extremes. I'd have a hard time choosing Meyer UPJ or ADRaudio U103 if there were some rider concerns but if it was just me choosing I'd go with U103.

-Bink
Title: Re: Waldy's Demo gig
Post by: Scott Waldy on July 24, 2007, 12:16:46 am
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 22:11

Cool! Nice to hear you had a good show. Not surprising, actually. How many peeps showed up?

The thing I really like about the U103s is the LF and HF.  Very Happy   The HF is stunningly clean for a compression driver hooked to a horn. Probably some voodoo/science going on in the phase plug to get it so crisp. The LF is pleasingly present all the way through its range without getting sloppy and unloaded at the extremes. I'd have a hard time choosing Meyer UPJ or ADRaudio U103 if there were some rider concerns but if it was just me choosing I'd go with U103.

-Bink


The entire event? I'm guessing 2000+.  Listening to the band all at one time? 250+

I'll second that. Eloquently put, sir.
Title: Re: Waldy's Demo gig
Post by: Phil LaDue on July 28, 2007, 03:14:30 pm
I will be picking up a demo rig on Wednesday.

Title: Re: Waldy's Demo gig
Post by: Scott Waldy on July 28, 2007, 03:18:16 pm
Phil LaDue wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 13:14

I will be picking up a demo rig on Wednesday.





Be prepared to be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Lee Brenkman on July 29, 2007, 02:30:44 pm
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 21:11

Cool! Nice to hear you had a good show. Not surprising, actually. How many peeps showed up?

The thing I really like about the U103s is the LF and HF.  Very Happy   The HF is stunningly clean for a compression driver hooked to a horn. Probably some voodoo/science going on in the phase plug to get it so crisp. The LF is pleasingly present all the way through its range without getting sloppy and unloaded at the extremes. I'd have a hard time choosing Meyer UPJ or ADRaudio U103 if there were some rider concerns but if it was just me choosing I'd go with U103.

-Bink


It was me choosing and I DID go with the U103s for the Stanford Jazz Festival's 200 seat venue.  The original demo pair has been purchased by the Stanford Jazz Workshop.  The Meyer has the edge when networking as part of a larger, more elaborate system and the BIG edge in name recognition, rider friendliness, and so on.  The U103s as a stand alone pair were a good match for the room and I DIDN'T have to buy additional hardware to pole mount them.

But the U103 just had enough more usable low end without a sub for the mostly acoustic jazz shows in Campbell Recital Hall.  An RE20 on an acoustic bass gave a very satisfying full, not boomy, thump.


And given the layout of that space the U103s have mostly been against the back wall of the stage BEHIND the band.  They're as high as I can safely get them on Ultimate tripod stands and feedback has not been a problem.


Unfortunately that against the DARK wall position has made if difficult to get any good pictures of this setup to post here.

The last Stanford Jazz show for the year is this Saturday with saxophonist Lee Konitz.

Cheers,
"Grampa"


Title: Re: Waldy's Demo gig
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 01, 2007, 09:39:38 pm
Scott Waldy wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 15:18

Phil LaDue wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 13:14

I will be picking up a demo rig on Wednesday.





Be prepared to be pleasantly surprised.

At first glance I was dumbfounded.
The mains(U 103) looked like toys, but I know better now that I have turned them on.
The sub is the cleanest I have heard in a long time.
No shaking or movement is detectable on the outside of the box, unlike the E-V force I use regularly that shakes around like crazy.
I have not experimented with the monitors yet.
I also picked up the Road Test TT24 at the same time.
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on August 02, 2007, 01:56:46 am
"Grampa" wrote on Sun, 29 July 2007 19:30

...The last Stanford Jazz show for the year is this Saturday with saxophonist Lee Konitz.

Cheers,
"Grampa"


My heart skipped a beat...I'd reaelly like to know, how that performance went.

Scott Waldy wrote

...The mains(U 103) looked like toys...


This particular feature comes in handy at the end of the usual show at 3AM-ish and gear needs to be disassembled and loaded into a truck, van, SUV,...All the energy has been consumed during the show...and 'roadies' are somehow not in sight...

Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: ThomasDameron on August 02, 2007, 04:34:51 am
Ales Dravinec 'Alex' wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 01:56


Scott Waldy wrote

...The mains(U 103) looked like toys...


This particular feature comes in handy at the end of the usual show at 3AM-ish and gear needs to be disassembled and loaded into a truck, van, SUV,...All the energy has been consumed during the show...and 'roadies' are somehow not in sight...




Very Happy That's great spin.  Your marketing department should owe you a beer.

I'm looking forward to hearing your speakers.  You're building up some high expectations and meeting and exceeding them all.

all the best,
thoams d.
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Bennett Prescott on August 02, 2007, 06:30:14 am
ThomasDameron wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 04:34

That's great spin.  Your marketing department should owe you a beer.

So noted! Look for our new ad next month, "we fooled our roadies into loading the truck because they thought the PA was a toy" Very Happy
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Tom Manchester on August 03, 2007, 10:51:38 am
Bennett Prescott wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 06:30

ThomasDameron wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 04:34

That's great spin.  Your marketing department should owe you a beer.

So noted! Look for our new ad next month, "we fooled our roadies into loading the truck because they thought the PA was a toy" Very Happy


*having vivid memories of loading 618's across wet grass* Twisted Evil
Title: ADR demo
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 03, 2007, 03:41:35 pm
Click on the picture to go to a slide show.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/avkid/Demos/th_100_1857.jpg

Edit: fixed slideshow
Title: Re: ADR demo
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on August 03, 2007, 03:46:36 pm
A slideshow of the same picture over and over?


Wouldnt it just be easier to just post the picture here without the lame background: Rolling Eyes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/avkid/Demos/100_1858.jpg




Evan
Title: Re: ADR demo
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 03, 2007, 04:07:44 pm
I put the pictures in the wrong box, so it only put in the one I didn't want.
All fixed now.
Title: Re: ADR demo
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 05, 2007, 10:26:16 pm
Here they are ready to go out for this week's shows.
Title: Re: ADR demo
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 09, 2007, 05:12:35 pm
Pictures coming tonight.
Title: Re: ADR demo
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on August 09, 2007, 05:18:43 pm
Phil LaDue wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 14:12

Pictures coming tonight.



LOL! What is this, a bookmark? Post when you have something.

-Bink (posting when I have nothing...)   Wink
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Randy Frierson on August 09, 2007, 07:36:09 pm
wow sounds like a great company. Can i hear more reviews on the wedge 225??? is that a single 12 and 2" I got the pricing and was cocerned as dealer was around the same price as the new meyer 2x12x2 wedge..so please share some more on their wedge and capabilities..the sub sounds great as well...Randy
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Jamie Taylor on August 09, 2007, 08:01:36 pm
Hi Randy,

the M1225 wedge is one 12" LF driver, and one 1.4" exit neodymium driver, with a 2.5" voice coil.

They're great wedges, and as I put in another thread, I did a mid-level national band here with them, and only had to take about 3db out of 4 frequecies on their wedges.  

There's a few reviews of them over in the other thread in Road Test.
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 09, 2007, 11:14:39 pm
The aforementioned pictures can be found Here.
Yes, they are water resistant too!!
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on August 09, 2007, 11:28:12 pm
Phil LaDue wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 23:14

The aforementioned pictures can be found Here.
Yes, they are water resistant too!!



Thats grand and all, but
HOW DO THEY SOUND!?


We love the links and all, but lets have a real review. Smile




Evan
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 09, 2007, 11:53:02 pm
The part of the show where I could actually walk away from the mixer was exactly when the downpour started.
I can however relate what happened during sound check on Monday night.

I had the system set up as pictured (minus the sub) on the edge of the infield of a regulation softball field.
I was going through my pre-show playlist and pushing it more with each song, absolutely no distortion with the first red light on the  U103's.

Anyway, I had Nickelback's RockStar on while I was walking to the outside edges of the field.
All of a sudden I hear a kid at the pool (100 yards from me easily) screaming "turn it up!!"

Considering that the past systems for this gig could barely reach back 100ft let alone the other side of the park I think that in itself says something.
These are cleanest powered speakers i've heard ever heard.

The fact that there are no buttons is great, especially when the hands are untrained volunteers.

I  also tried aux fed subs for the first time with this rig, the difference is amazing.

P.S. rain has no negative effects on the mains or the sub.( I pulled the monitors only because they were face up and I don't have a house to mortgage should I make them explode Laughing )
Title: Re: U103s go to college
Post by: Phil LaDue on August 12, 2007, 01:36:42 pm
That kid at the pool does not have very sensitive hearing(as I first thought).
I walked during intermission last night and found clean intelligible sound all the way to the other side of the park(about 150 yards), I would have kept going if it weren't for the fence blocking me from crossing the street.
I was quite astounded that these "little" boxes sounded so huge so far away.
If only I had a house to mortgage, the garage would be full of these.
Title: Re: ADRaudio demo package fits in my car
Post by: Tom Young on August 23, 2007, 08:56:00 am
What ????  No seatbelt on the U103 ?

Would the woofer in the ATA118 be classified as a "back seat driver" ?

(I had a pair of the U103's for a few weeks but was only able to test them with recorded music and pink noise. Quite impressive.)
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Bennett Prescott on August 28, 2007, 04:01:21 pm
This isn't really road test, but Jason Dermer of the Stone Pony has posted a lengthy review here:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/26194/4221/

And I quote it:
Jason Dermer wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 15:41

Thanks to our good pal Bennett, I've been testing quite a bit of the Eona line over the past six months. Here are my down and dirty reviews, feel free to shoot me questions here or PM for more details...

L 2821 HH line array
I've had the pleasure of using eight of these boxes over two ATA 618Cs twice now, both times with excellent results. The first was indoors at the Lighthouse on Chelsea Piers in NYC, with a crowd of 450 at tables in an L shaped, 10,000 square foot room. The event was a benefit for World Hunger Year (shameless plug from a volunteer supervisor and tech coordinator Smile ), and goes off very similarly to a corporate show. The boxes went up without a problem, the truck pack sized rolling carts that they transport on are ingenious and allow for very fast and easy setup. The boxes are unbelievably light, comparable in weight to a similarly sized unpowered box, while still feeling solid as a rock. The frequency response and coverage was even, and as with the rest of the EONA ADRaudio line, the only EQ needed was to correct room issues.  The entertainment at this event was three different "A" list acts with 40+ Grammy, Academy, Emmy, and #1 single/album awards between them. One of the performers had their regular B.E. and M.E. with them, I mixed FOH and Bennett Prescott was on monitors for the other two. Although the band's engineers had not previously heard the EONA ADRaudio line, both walked away impressed and would have no issues if presented with the boxes again by a provider for a one off. (They normally contract a big name provider and carry all production). Once I got in the big chair, it was the same thing. The boxes basically disappeared, allowing me to mix without trying to work around what the rig was doing. One of the audience members came up to FOH and said it best: "Wow, it sounds like I am listening to the band acoustically in my living room."

The second event was the Lollapajewza festival, held outdoors at the Stone Pony. Once again Bennett was my system tech, with moral and photographic support from Mike Butler. The weather forecast was rain and the skies were ominous, but since the show had already sold over the indoor capacity, we were asked to go with it regardless. Once again, the rig went up in no time flat. The first band sets up for soundcheck, we get them mic'd, and as I say kick, the skies take it as a cue to open up. FOH and the stage are covered so there are no real issues there, just shut her down, cut the power, and tarp the deck and everything on it. But the 2821s are in the air, and the 618s are on the ground. Me: "Bennett, should we drop the rig and cover them?" Bennett: "No, they'll be fine." So we move the show inside, (the crowd luckily was not that big yet) while Mother Nature lets loose with over 4" of rain in three hours. A tornado even touched down less than ten miles away! A few bands and a wrestling match later (long story) the rain subsided and the decision was made to go back outdoors. We quickly lowered the boxes, without unrigging, so that Bennett could make sure that no water had made it's way into the integral amps. No problem there, the rig goes back up, we power up and start over. There was NO ill effect whatsoever on the rig. The foam and grill combination used by Eona kept every bit of moisture out of the boxes, even in a driving rain coming off of the ocean, which in this location is only 400' away. We hacked our way through 6 or 7 really bad bands that even the Messiach could not have helped. Just as that point of "is it me?" started to set in, we got our first good band. Quick line check, and we're off and running. Without knowing their music, I was once again able to build a mix in no time flat. Good. Let's see what she'll do now. I start to push a bit, and I am able to hit 115dba at 70 feet with no problem. The boxes sound the same at high volume as they did at low, very smooth and natural, no distortion, great coverage in the pattern area. They compare favorably with other small, high end arrays- 4887, Mica, Y10, etc, all of which I used at the same venue within the past year.


M 1225 HH Wedges:
Along with the aforementioned weather problems, these stood up to the rigors of everyone?s favorite musician, the climber, without a crushed grill. The sound quality was superb, up to par with other touring class 12? wedges, with little or no eq. As I do with most any (non drum) monitor, I high passed the entire mix at around 150 to prevent the buildup of stage mud. Beyond that, all EQ work was microphone and room specific. I used them in and outdoors for over a month, in front of acts ranging from ?Nobody You?ve Heard Of? at a record label battle of the bands, to the "A listers" mentioned above. I was able to meet the needs of every one of these artists, with headroom to spare. The only artist that I was not able to use the wedges successfully with was an extremely loud, top 10  ?numetal? band, who?s stage volume was over 110dbA from backline only. I don?t really feel that this was a design problem with the wedges, this is a band that NEEDS sheer output over everything else. They would probably be better suited with pairs of the huge three way wedges out there, or better yet, get over the noise problem and use in ears. Though I do hear rumor of a new higher powered 15" version of this wedge in the works....


ATA 618C HH subs
Tremendous output and still solid down to 35hz, where they dropped off quickly. Two centerstacked outdoors for 1000 people, under 4 per side of the L 2821, and we had all of the PA that we needed. The cardioid pattern worked just as advertised. Even with the subs right against the stage, there was none of the onstage bass buildup that we get from other big name subs used in the same configuration. The subs had no problem with the rain either.

I also used these inside the Stone Pony as sidefill subs and drum subs. The sidefill setup was hilarious. I had to provide the subs, amps, and crossover for under the band?s tops. Well, the tops turned out to be some Cerwin Vega double 15"&1" DJ specials, powered by a CE1000. Needless to say, I had the subs about 20 dB down from the tops to get the balance correct. Looking at it made me think of putting monster truck wheels under a Yugo.

The boxes were spectacular as a drum sub as well. The band was an eighties metal relic revival, each member deafer than the other. I was mixing monitors, and the B.E. was at FOH. When our standard 5kw drum fill and sub were not enough, I pulled the EONAs out of the truck. I stacked them on top of each other, crossed them at 70hz, and used the regular front loaded sub as a midbass/low cab, filling in 70 to 300, the double 15 mids from 300-1.2, and highs 1.2 and up. With this setup I was able to make the drummer quite happy. I had to use a gate to give him the low end hit from the kick that he wanted, but at that point I had both his overstuffed/partly torn spandex and the remnants of his mullet flapping in the breeze. Once again, the cardioid pattern of the subs was well appreciated, this time by me. The back of the subs were pointed directly at monitor world, but I had no problems all night with wash. Noise boy at FOH was unhappy though- I had about the same amount of sub juice on deck as he had out front! A quick dive into the main DSP to align everything to the repositioned fill solved that problem, unfortunately it was still 80?s metal coming out of the boxes.

A word to the wise, though. You may be able to get the output of 4 or so double 18's from one box, but be sure that you have loaders! These boxes are advertised at 357 lbs, feel at least 400 Smile, and are built like a tank. Watching them get lifted off of the dollies reminded me of when we used to make a game of moving people's Beetles onto their lawns.



U 103 HH over ATA 118 HH
I used these as sidefills and a drum fill as well. Good thump from the 118, similar in output to a properly powered SRX728 double 18, except for the fact that it went quite a bit lower before dropping off.  The U103 tops were a perfect match, and needed little or no EQ to sound great. They were dead stable as sidefills, and as a drum fill with an OM7 (I love singing drummers- NOT) just inches away only a few small dips at 400, 1.2, and 3.15 were needed.

I also used the U103s as infills and delays with the 2821s. Perfect match tonally, with timing the only thing needed to make them fit right in with the mains. I was actually able to make the split at the process rack, with no need for separate EQ.

I would have no qualms with using the U103/118 combo on a small gig. The tops are arrayable, so owning 4 of each would be perfect for a small sound company, or for over the counter rental stock. 1 over 1 per side for up to 200 or so, and 2 over 2, maybe coupling all 4 subs in the center, would likely be adequate for all but the loudest of bands for up to 400 or so indoors.


Overall, I have been very impressed by each of the Eona boxes that I have used so far. Unfortunately, one of the biggest hurdles that the company faces will be market penetration. Although the quality is in the same range, the price of the boxes put them up there with some of the biggest names in the business. You wind up with the old conundrum of a company looking to add them to inventory shying away because they aren't on riders, and not being on riders because nobody is using them yet. I wish Alex, Bennett, and the entire company the best of luck in getting past this situation. The product is excellent, and I look forward to the day of Eona being talked about and implemented in the same circles as Meyer, Adamson, Nexo, and the like.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Simon Tucker on September 18, 2007, 04:58:23 pm
Hey Bennett,

I've been around these parts since way back when .. the days when you used to call your system '3 Way Active' but neglected to name on your website the manufacturer Wink .. yep, way back then!

Anyway enought of that .. I am intrigued by what you guys have to offer, and was wondering if there were any cabs over here in the UK that are doing the demo rounds?

I currently use a Nexo Ps15 system, which I am very happy with, but in the never ending task of trying to downsize, but retain quality, active speakers seem to be more and more attractive.  With all the reviews the EONA cabs are getting, I would like to hear some.  (Particularly since in your recent post you state they .. the U103's .. are potentially able to hit 134dB peak .. the same as a Ps15)

Thanks mate,

Simon

Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Phil LaDue on September 18, 2007, 06:56:02 pm
See Bennett, I got you another bite in the UK.
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Simon Tucker on September 18, 2007, 07:01:20 pm
Phil LaDue wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 23:56

See Bennett, I got you another bite in the UK.


Hmm, so I am not the first??

Simon
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Phil LaDue on September 18, 2007, 07:04:49 pm
Simon Tucker wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 19:01

Phil LaDue wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 23:56

See Bennett, I got you another bite in the UK.


Hmm, so I am not the first??

Simon


Nope, I started a buzz over at the UKSLC.org forums.

I want my commission!
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Bennett Prescott on September 19, 2007, 02:31:35 pm
Simon Tucker wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 16:58

Anyway enought of that .. I am intrigued by what you guys have to offer, and was wondering if there were any cabs over here in the UK that are doing the demo rounds?

I currently use a Nexo Ps15 system, which I am very happy with, but in the never ending task of trying to downsize, but retain quality, active speakers seem to be more and more attractive.  With all the reviews the EONA cabs are getting, I would like to hear some.  (Particularly since in your recent post you state they .. the U103's .. are potentially able to hit 134dB peak .. the same as a Ps15)

Simon,

I don't currently have a demo rig in the UK, but I'd love to get one in that region. It's pretty easy to do since I can just have it trucked from Slovenia. Whether or not our U103 cabinet will meet your needs versus a PS15 you'll have to determine for yourself.

Please drop me an email and I will send you more information, bennett.prescott@adraudio.com
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on September 21, 2007, 03:46:50 am
Nice response, Bennett (meant in every sense.)

Next thing you know, Franci's going to have to buy a small rural village and put up another factory so as to keep up with demand.

-Bink
Title: Re: My first ADRaudio speaker gig
Post by: Simon Tucker on September 23, 2007, 11:43:58 am
Yes Bink, I agree.

Although I am sure that no matter how well engineered a cabinet based around a 10" driver is, I am sure it couldn't be considered as a direct replacement to my Ps15's for all applications.  However, I am sure that it could in fact be a good replacement in a lot of cases, where I am not requiring the full output capabilities of the Nexo system.

Will get in touch Bennett, it looks like you guys have the potential to be serious players in an already saturated loudspeaker market.

Simon