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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Bob Faulkner on January 03, 2019, 07:10:08 am

Title: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 03, 2019, 07:10:08 am
Looking at either Motion Labs or Whirlwind 50amp rackmounted PDUs.  Will need power cords to connect the PDUs from (mostly) spider boxes using their 50amp pass through (or perhaps directly from a generator).

Researching on the Internet, there appears to be plenty of power-cord suppliers.  Appears most sell UL/ETL SOOW listed cords (with the needed CS6365/64 connectors).

Question - any suppliers I should NOT consider?  For example, would this site be an acceptable vendor to purchase from:   https://www.lockingpowercords.com  ?  Other suggestions?

Thanks.



Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Jay Barracato on January 03, 2019, 07:47:37 am
Looking at either Motion Labs or Whirlwind 50amp rackmounted PDUs.  Will need power cords to connect the PDUs from (mostly) spider boxes using their 50amp pass through (or perhaps directly from a generator).

Researching on the Internet, there appears to be plenty of power-cord suppliers.  Appears most sell UL/ETL SOOW listed cords (with the needed CS6365/64 connectors).

Question - any suppliers I should NOT consider?  For example, would this site be an acceptable vendor to purchase from:   https://www.lockingpowercords.com  ?  Other suggestions?

Thanks.
I am not sure what the advantage of preassembled cables is in this case, especially if they use standard parts.

I would order the appropriate marinco cs connectors and the length of SOOW desired. It takes maybe 15 minutes to assemble and test.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 03, 2019, 10:01:18 am
I am not sure what the advantage of preassembled cables is in this case, especially if they use standard parts.

I would order the appropriate marinco cs connectors and the length of SOOW desired. It takes maybe 15 minutes to assemble and test.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I'm not opposed to making my own, though, my insurance company has asked a specific question on whether or not I "manufacture" my own power cables, as part of the insurance policy.   hmmm...

Referencing parts... appears most of the connectors I find at the big box stores are crap... as well, it was a struggle to get 10/4 wire (from them) for my whole-house generator.  When I do find something that is good quality, the price reflects it.  The electrical wholesalers out here are good, but they too do not always have what I need.  After adding up the parts, driving around, time to assemble, I find the extra cost in pre-made cables a "bargain"!

Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Jeremy Young on January 03, 2019, 11:59:04 am
I've had good experiences purchasing from Stayonline (http://www.stayonline.com) but I'm not sure whether they have what you're looking for.  Their website is quite comprehensive.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 03, 2019, 01:16:22 pm
Looking at either Motion Labs or Whirlwind 50amp rackmounted PDUs.  Will need power cords to connect the PDUs from (mostly) spider boxes using their 50amp pass through (or perhaps directly from a generator).

Researching on the Internet, there appears to be plenty of power-cord suppliers.  Appears most sell UL/ETL SOOW listed cords (with the needed CS6365/64 connectors).

Question - any suppliers I should NOT consider?  For example, would this site be an acceptable vendor to purchase from:   https://www.lockingpowercords.com  ?  Other suggestions?

Thanks.
I strongly suggest using 4/4 SOOW cord rather than the 6/4 cord that some cables are made with.  Significantly less voltage drop and actually meets NEC code (6/4 is marginal at best).
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 04, 2019, 05:30:11 am
I strongly suggest using 4/4 SOOW cord rather than the 6/4 cord that some cables are made with.  Significantly less voltage drop and actually meets NEC code (6/4 is marginal at best).
Thanks.  I am considering this.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Frank Koenig on January 04, 2019, 03:18:28 pm
I've had good experiences purchasing from Stayonline (http://www.stayonline.com) but I'm not sure whether they have what you're looking for.  Their website is quite comprehensive.

I, too, have had multiple good experiences with Stayonline. Maybe not the cheapest but a solid outfit. --Frank
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 04, 2019, 07:09:06 pm
Thanks.  I am considering this.

Hi Bob-

I've taken to up-sizing conductors whenever I can.  My boss doesn't always like the price but we have more juice at the ends of the runs.  Mentioned before that we've been bit by the current draw of big ol' analog consoles at the end of a 250 ft cable.  No longer powering PM4000 or Soundcraft Series 5 or Midas Heritage desks in most instances, but we can.  These days I can use a spare phase leg at FOH to run my little $20 caffeine preparation device or a space heater for those Octoberfest gigs... :D

Seriously, bigger copper costs more, weighs more, but more importantly has less voltage drop and no questions about #6 (45 amperes) on a 50 ampere circuit breaker.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 05, 2019, 09:28:08 am
Hi Bob-

I've taken to up-sizing conductors whenever I can.  My boss doesn't always like the price but we have more juice at the ends of the runs.  Mentioned before that we've been bit by the current draw of big ol' analog consoles at the end of a 250 ft cable.  No longer powering PM4000 or Soundcraft Series 5 or Midas Heritage desks in most instances, but we can.  These days I can use a spare phase leg at FOH to run my little $20 caffeine preparation device or a space heater for those Octoberfest gigs... :D

Seriously, bigger copper costs more, weighs more, but more importantly has less voltage drop and no questions about #6 (45 amperes) on a 50 ampere circuit breaker.
Thanks Tim.  The distance I'm looking at for one of the power cables is no more than 50ft.  It would power the amp rack (all class D amplification).  If it looks like more than 50ft would be needed to draw power, I make this an issue for the organizers; stipulating power must be less than 50ft from the stage.  The other power cable I'm considering would only be about 5ft - to connect into a spider 50amp PDU pass-through that can sit next to the amp rack (which luckily has been common).

A voltage calculator showed minimal loss differences between #6 and #4 wire at 50ft.  I try to upsize where/when I can on everything, but the cost and weight of things begin to add up.

Speaking of wires and connectors... the locking connectors (CS6365 CS6364) from Hubbell show to only support down to #8 wire (stated on Hubbell's website).  Can these connectors "officially" support #6 wire?  The 6/4 cords I see around on the internet all show these connectors with #6 wire (at least advertised that way).  I prefer Hubbell connectors, but perhaps these don't actually support #6?

Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 05, 2019, 09:35:44 am
Thanks Tim.  The distance I'm looking at for one of the power cables is no more than 50ft.  It would power the amp rack (all class D amplification).  If it looks like more than 50ft would be needed to draw power, I make this an issue for the organizers; stipulating power must be less than 50ft from the stage.  The other power cable I'm considering would only be about 5ft - to connect into a spider 50amp PDU pass-through that can sit next to the amp rack (which luckily has been common).

A voltage calculator showed minimal loss differences between #6 and #4 wire at 50ft.  I try to upsize where/when I can on everything, but the cost and weight of things begin to add up.

Speaking of wires and connectors... the locking connectors (CS6365 CS6364) from Hubbell show to only support down to #8 wire (stated on Hubbell's website).  Can these connectors "officially" support #6 wire?  The 6/4 cords I see around on the internet all show these connectors with #6 wire (at least advertised that way).  I prefer Hubbell connectors, but perhaps these don't actually support #6?

hmmm... well, (egg on my face).  I was looking at the CS6365 connector, which shows #8 wire as the largest for it.  I forgot I should have been looking at the CS6365C version, which does show it accommodates #6 wire.

Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 05, 2019, 10:50:47 pm
hmmm... well, (egg on my face).  I was looking at the CS6365 connector, which shows #8 wire as the largest for it.  I forgot I should have been looking at the CS6365C version, which does show it accommodates #6 wire.
I use these (http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/wiring_devices/products/locking_devices/_50a_non_nema/standard/california_standard_pro_grip_plug_connector_new_50a_250v_dc_600v_ac_non_nema_3_pole_4_wire_3765ex_3764ex.html) and have not had trouble with #4 wire.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 07, 2019, 06:39:48 am
I use these (http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/wiring_devices/products/locking_devices/_50a_non_nema/standard/california_standard_pro_grip_plug_connector_new_50a_250v_dc_600v_ac_non_nema_3_pole_4_wire_3765ex_3764ex.html) and have not had trouble with #4 wire.
Thank you. 

Haven't seen too much of Eaton products in the things I've worked with.  Any discernible quality differences between Eaton and Hubbell?  I've always been a Hubbell person, but would not discount another manufacture if quality is on par.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 07, 2019, 08:23:34 am
Thank you. 

Haven't seen too much of Eaton products in the things I've worked with.  Any discernible quality differences between Eaton and Hubbell?  I've always been a Hubbell person, but would not discount another manufacture if quality is on par.
Most of my other cabling infrastructure is Hubbell - these particular Cooper plugs are really nice.  They assemble pretty easily, and are as robust as anything else I have.   The spec sheet on these says #6 wire as well, so if you prefer Hubbell, I would bet you a pizza #4 is fine in them too.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on January 07, 2019, 12:30:06 pm
But, as pendantic as we get about things on here at times, if says #6 it is not listed to be used with #4-even if it fits.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 07, 2019, 01:42:55 pm
But, as pendantic as we get about things on here at times, if says #6 it is not listed to be used with #4-even if it fits.
I don't disagree.  Welcome to the world of government (or industry/government, in the case of NEC) regulation - having to choose between a cord that doesn't meet code and has voltage drop concerns that fits easily in the plugs, or wire that's the right size but not officially rated for the legal wire.

:) 
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Bob Faulkner on January 08, 2019, 06:41:28 am
Most of my other cabling infrastructure is Hubbell - these particular Cooper plugs are really nice.  They assemble pretty easily, and are as robust as anything else I have.   The spec sheet on these says #6 wire as well, so if you prefer Hubbell, I would bet you a pizza #4 is fine in them too.
Perfect.

As a side note, looks like there is an "*ex" version of the connectors (replacing the "c" at the end).  Not sure what the difference is, but the market literature shows the EX and C will work together.
Title: Re: PDU power-cord supplier
Post by: Jeff Robinson on January 14, 2019, 04:06:19 pm
hmmm... well, (egg on my face).  I was looking at the CS6365 connector, which shows #8 wire as the largest for it.  I forgot I should have been looking at the CS6365C version, which does show it accommodates #6 wire.

Hi Bob
They stock the CS6365C where I work and the enclosed sheet (PD1180: http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/CustomerDrawingLibraryAssets/3A/3/PD1180.pdf ) shows in 3 languages that terminal capacity is 8 AWG to 4 AWG.
HTH,
Jeff