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Title: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 31, 2018, 06:39:02 pm
In using the standard Powercon connector the manufacturer states that it shouldn't be unplugged under a load. My question is if the device is off is it under a load? In other words do I need to unplug the male end first.. I just purchased a few powered wedges...
Thanks for your time...
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 31, 2018, 07:22:53 pm
In using the standard Powercon connector the manufacturer states that it shouldn't be unplugged under a load. My question is if the device is off is it under a load? In other words do I need to unplug the male end first.. I just purchased a few powered wedges...
Thanks for your time...

Maybe.  Most things digital have some amount of parasitic load, our iTechs (4 to a rack) draw enough when powered down at the front panel that an L21-30 will spark at the rack pack inlet if the cable is already powered.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on November 02, 2018, 06:53:29 am
Now for an alternative question, what is the difference between the original Powercon and the True1 units now. I can imagine the rule is there to prevent arc flashes but seeing how deep the Powercon connector is, is it really that serious for low current loads?
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Taylor Hall on November 02, 2018, 11:01:17 am
The True1 connectors are IP65 rated and utilize a completely different locking assembly to keep them separate from the "plain" powercon connectors. They are also able to be hot-swapped under load as they have breaking capacity baked in. Those are the only differences. Well, that and not being able to utilize the same gauge wire/jacket thickness cable that standard powercons can (yet, supposedly they're working on this).
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on November 02, 2018, 04:01:51 pm
The True1 connectors are IP65 rated and utilize a completely different locking assembly to keep them separate from the "plain" powercon connectors. They are also able to be hot-swapped under load as they have breaking capacity baked in. Those are the only differences. Well, that and not being able to utilize the same gauge wire/jacket thickness cable that standard powercons can (yet, supposedly they're working on this).

To clarify, this means that the contacts can handle the inevitable arcing that occurs when making/breaking the connection under load.

The contacts in the original Powercon connectors can be damaged by such arcing.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: dave briar on December 22, 2018, 03:46:36 pm
To whit, our FBT StageMaxx monitors don’t even have off/on switches — the True1 connectors perform that function.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Lyle Williams on December 23, 2018, 01:29:31 am
Better to think of them as being unsuitable for repeated connection/disconnection under FULL load.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Phillip Ivan Pietruschka on December 27, 2018, 07:01:43 pm
Better to think of them as being unsuitable for repeated connection/disconnection under FULL load.

Indeed. I couldn’t count how many Meyer’s I’ve connected or disconnected with an idle load without issue.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Dan Mortensen on December 27, 2018, 07:32:35 pm
Better to think of them as being unsuitable for repeated connection/disconnection under FULL load.

Indeed. I couldn’t count how many Meyer’s I’ve connected or disconnected with an idle load without issue.

With all due respect, this will be true for a while and then it won't be true at all as the connector will have damage from repeated small sparking.

My shop stereo was four UPM-1P's for a few years and I used a Powercon barrel to turn the agglomeration on and off, no music playing at turn-on/turn-off.

After a couple years that barrel and the Powercon->Edison stopped working.

True, it was four and not one but the principle is the same IMO. Small load can wreck Powercon when twisted while on.

One person's anecdote FWIW.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Steve Litscher on December 28, 2018, 11:42:07 am
With all due respect, this will be true for a while and then it won't be true at all as the connector will have damage from repeated small sparking.

My shop stereo was four UPM-1P's for a few years and I used a Powercon barrel to turn the agglomeration on and off, no music playing at turn-on/turn-off.

After a couple years that barrel and the Powercon->Edison stopped working.

True, it was four and not one but the principle is the same IMO. Small load can wreck Powercon when twisted while on.

One person's anecdote FWIW.

So... any idea why several manufacturers choose to ignore the Neutrik direction by not including a power switch for their PowerCon-configured devices?

We have a bunch of TTL-6a speakers from RCF - none have a power switch, and all have PowerCon in/out receptacles. I'd think that engineering powerhouses like Meyer, RCF, etc would know better?
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Dan Mortensen on December 28, 2018, 11:44:33 am
So... any idea why several manufacturers choose to ignore the Neutrik direction by not including a power switch for their PowerCon-configured devices?

We have a bunch of TTL-6a speakers from RCF - none have a power switch, and all have PowerCon in/out receptacles. I'd think that engineering powerhouses like Meyer, RCF, etc would know better?

They assume you'll connect it all up before applying power?
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Lyle Williams on December 28, 2018, 01:55:09 pm
Ditto with lights.  Long strings of fixtures that nobody powers down when adding another.

It seems the connector works well enough in the real world.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Geoff Doane on December 28, 2018, 04:38:19 pm
So... any idea why several manufacturers choose to ignore the Neutrik direction by not including a power switch for their PowerCon-configured devices?

We have a bunch of TTL-6a speakers from RCF - none have a power switch, and all have PowerCon in/out receptacles. I'd think that engineering powerhouses like Meyer, RCF, etc would know better?

Maybe they assume you would cable it all up before you turn the power on (at the distro)?

GTD
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on December 28, 2018, 06:44:04 pm
Maybe they assume you would cable it all up before you turn the power on (at the distro)?

GTD

Maybe that's why they developed the True1 -- they realized their ASSumptions were wrong.
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on December 29, 2018, 01:12:43 am
Neutrik makes the powerCon, and describes the intended usages.  If somebody else makes a poor design choice when building gear, how is that the fault of Neutrik?
Title: Re: Neutric Powercon Question
Post by: Steven A. White on December 29, 2018, 12:52:48 pm
With all due respect, this will be true for a while and then it won't be true at all as the connector will have damage from repeated small sparking.

My shop stereo was four UPM-1P's for a few years and I used a Powercon barrel to turn the agglomeration on and off, no music playing at turn-on/turn-off.

After a couple years that barrel and the Powercon->Edison stopped working.

True, it was four and not one but the principle is the same IMO. Small load can wreck Powercon when twisted while on.

One person's anecdote FWIW.

Yes indeed and good point.  Depending upon usage, this stuff wears out - with or without the arcing - that speeds up the process.

I did a job for a colleague many years ago, 4th of July show on the infield of a dirt track.  He sent me in his truck, his gear and his assistant.  Told me the basic configuration of things - this was back in the mid 80's and he had racks of BGW 750's & 250's.  Anyway, I discovered the 1/4" TRS and XLR connections had "character" or some personality to them.  Scratchy and inconsistent connections, had to wiggle things around a bit and change out a cable or two.  This applied to some of the 1/4" TRS stuff in and out of the EQ's & crossovers and several of the XLR females.

I guess over time, he was used to quickly going through connections, I wasn't and with a foreign system and under the gun to get things up and running before the gates opened I could have done without the extra excitement.

Which is why today I never patch in and out of gear, stage boxes, amps, whatever.  Rack 'em up with patch panels that can be easily changed or repaired out if/when they wear out.  Same holds true for cable reels and XLR cables.  I don't use them, just hand roll individual cables, Velcro strap them together and throw them into a drum case.

RIP Robert "Bob" Martin of Band Aids.