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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Steve Mason on October 13, 2018, 06:57:40 pm

Title: Small bar rig
Post by: Steve Mason on October 13, 2018, 06:57:40 pm
Bar owner/friend looking to do a small rig for her bar stage.  Karaoke 2-3 nights a week and a full band jam session weekly.  Total space is less than 1000 sq feet and less than 75 people jams the place pretty well. It's a small operation so she is going to be "budget conscious" and has been resistant to the buy once cry once philosophy in the past. 2 mains, two monitors and an combo amp/mixer semi permanent install. 
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Dave Garoutte on October 13, 2018, 07:19:12 pm
2-Yamaha DXR12 mains
2-DXR10 monitors
aAny number of small analog mixers : Soundcraft, Allen and Heath, etc.
Model depending on channel count needs.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Tom Provenza on October 13, 2018, 07:31:13 pm
Bar owner/friend looking to do a small rig for her bar stage.  Karaoke 2-3 nights a week and a full band jam session weekly.  Total space is less than 1000 sq feet and less than 75 people jams the place pretty well. It's a small operation so she is going to be "budget conscious" and has been resistant to the buy once cry once philosophy in the past. 2 mains, two monitors and an combo amp/mixer semi permanent install.

Define  “full band jam”?  About the only combo mixer/amp I might have ever recommended is the now discontinued A&H PA CP series.  What’s the budget? Powered speakers out of the question?
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Scott Gaines on October 13, 2018, 07:57:46 pm
Powered speakers can't be out of the question. For that type of scenario, they are the only thing that makes sense.
 
For a place that small, A pair of JBL PRX 812's and a single PRX 18" sub should do great for FOH. And if cost is a big issue, QSC just released a set of cheap powered wedges (CP series, I think). If there's $ to spend, 3 Turbosound IQ10s work great for monitors, and they aren't very big.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Steve Mason on October 13, 2018, 08:28:33 pm
Define  “full band jam”?  About the only combo mixer/amp I might have ever recommended is the now discontinued A&H PA CP series.  What’s the budget? Powered speakers out of the question?

4 piece core band.  Jammers play with the band although usually it's a swap in swap out for a band member.  Max 6 people on stage at any given time.  So inputs are generally 4 vocals 1 kick mic 1 aux something (acoustic or keys) or other. Usually never more than 8 channels.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on October 13, 2018, 09:03:53 pm
2 mains, two monitors and an combo amp/mixer

Go with 4 powered 10s for mains and mons, a 15" powered sub and an XR-something digital mixer that can be remotely managed from anywhere. I think if you put something like a Fender Passport in there for the PA they won't have respectable musicians frequenting the place much longer.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Mike Monte on October 14, 2018, 01:04:38 am
Go with 4 powered 10s for mains and mons, a 15" powered sub and an XR-something digital mixer that can be remotely managed from anywhere. I think if you put something like a Fender Passport in there for the PA they won't have respectable musicians frequenting the place much longer.
I am on the passive cab/ power amp instead of active speakers camp......IMO, however, the above bold text is important as not only will a Passport sound bad, the terminal hardware (included wires) is not better/sturdier than your flimsy everyday consumer earbud hardware...almost useless in the pro sound world..
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: MikeHarris on October 14, 2018, 04:08:01 am
2-Yamaha DXR12 mains
2-DXR10 monitors
aAny number of small analog mixers : Soundcraft, Allen and Heath, etc.
Model depending on channel count needs.

Agree on Yamaha
We just finished a small club rig with the Midas XR18 so check that out.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Caleb Dueck on October 14, 2018, 10:30:53 am


IMO, however, the above bold text is important as not only will a Passport sound bad, the terminal hardware (included wires) is not better/sturdier than your flimsy everyday consumer earbud hardware...almost useless in the pro sound world..

Agreed, Passport is a joke.  If I were in a band (I'm not), I'd demand a usable PA or more money to provide my own, with that struck before arriving.  I've had to use them a couple dozen times and it was all I could do to not "long term dumpster storage" them.



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Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Scott Bolt on October 14, 2018, 01:42:58 pm
Hey Steve,

The reason everyone is pushing the active speakers is that they are most likely to just sound good when you plug them in, and their internal protection makes it difficult (not impossible) to break them through misuse.

Of course, as in all things, everything costs.  The speakers being recommended (and I would vote for the DXR15's btw), are not low end, nor are they touring stuff.  They will take a beating in a bar, sound good every time you turn them on, and will simply do what you ask them to do.

You can get less expensive active speakers (Alto), and while they do sound fine (not as fine as the DXR of course), they are not nearly as robust and do not carry the massive 7 year warranty that the Yamaha's do.

$1600 (and you can get them for a few hundred less if you ask around), really isn't a bad investment for a guaranteed 7 year life (and probably much longer than that) in a bar.  I would venture to say that purchasing less expensive speakers will likely cost her more in the long run, and won't sound as nice either.

If she really just can't swing this kind of money (which really isn't much when you think about it), the Alto TS315's go for $350.  They are an OK speaker, but may be fine for her purposes.  I wouldn't push them hard all night every night though.  My gut says that would likely result in failed speakers.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Scott Gaines on October 14, 2018, 02:01:49 pm
Agreed. You shouldn't buy cheap stuff. Anything in the range of Yamaha DXR, QSC K.2, Turbosound IQ, JBL PRX series should take good care of you.
Spend the $ once and have a respectable sound system.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: David Winners on October 14, 2018, 03:16:14 pm
I vote 2 Turbosound iQ8s on wall brackets, 2 iQ10s for wedges, an iQ15b sub and an XR18 mixer. I think the iQ8 is the best sounding iQ for vocals and 2 would cover that room.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Scott Gaines on October 14, 2018, 03:22:39 pm
I vote 2 Turbosound iQ8s on wall brackets, 2 iQ10s for wedges, an iQ15b sub and an XR18 mixer. I think the iQ8 is the best sounding iQ for vocals and 2 would cover that room.
I own an IQ10 and it is a fine wedge. Can't imagine  IQ8s as mains, though. Tried QSC K8s as mains in a small bar and they struggled. But we mic everything.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Brian Jojade on October 14, 2018, 05:57:32 pm
Has an actual budget been set yet for this project? 
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Wes Garland on October 14, 2018, 10:37:48 pm
Budget would be helpful, as would country of install.

Minimum IMO --
2 x 12+1" powered tops
2 x 10+1" powered monitors
2 x SM-58
2 x round-base mic stands with booms (not cheap ones)
6 x 25' mic cords
1 2x31ch graphic equalizer
2 x insert cables
1 x analog mixer with effects, aux 1 and main insert points

I love digital but if there is not going to be a dedicated sound guy, analog is the only realistic choice.
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Steve Litscher on October 15, 2018, 11:48:52 am
I agree with Wes about using analog; or maybe a hybrid. I'm also curious about the budget, because that's probably the biggest factor in all of this.

That said... we have a small pub near us that is about 2-3x the size of the venue you're describing. They have open jams a few times a week, feature duos/trios a few times a week, and have a house band that plays about once a week.

High-ish ceilings, probably 2000-2500 square feet inside.

Their house system consists of:
Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2
HK Elements 435 speakers (mains)
2x EV 12" powered monitors - not sure of model... haven't looked

Very simple, yet very effective. I was shocked by how great those HK speakers do and sound at FOH. They're tiny but are really good.

Edit: forgot to include picture of the local pub for reference...
Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Craig Leerman on October 15, 2018, 12:36:54 pm
Don’t forget the Electro-Voice ELX200 stuff. A few 10” tops, 10” wedges and 12” subs come in at a good price point and sound great.

I have some QSC CP boxes in for a Road Test right now and they sound great. There are yoke mounts available for the boxes that would make install and positioning a breeze. The CPs would also make excellent tops and monitors without breaking the bank. There is no sub in the CP series as of yet so you would have to use a KS112 or Ksub.

Unlike a few folks on here, I like Alto speakers for budget applications. The Alto boxes sound fine and are very inexpensive compared to other boxes. They have discontinued the products I am familiar with but it looks like their new  TS3 series in an improvement with larger power amplifiers. Their older 18” subs were a bit underpowered for loud live use but the newer subs look like they would easily handle a room full of 75+ people.

Mackie has the compact DLM series and the HD series. I’m not sure of the pricing but both sound good.

Add a Mackie PROFX analog mixer to any of the above or previously mentioned speakers in other replies and you would have a kickin little system that was easy to use.

Craig



Title: Re: Small bar rig
Post by: Steve Mason on October 17, 2018, 04:06:10 pm
Thanks all for the responses.  And please rest assured I would NEVER even think of using a passport system as a house band PA.