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Title: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ron Cayman on July 10, 2018, 05:10:28 pm
I'm looking for recommendations for water-tight covers for Shure ULXD1 body-packs after a rather sweaty actress apparently almost destroyed the electronics within one of my packs with rivers of sweat.

I already checked out Aquapac (http://www.aquapac.net)'s covers but they're too big and don't look very comfortable, and I'm looking for something smaller that can be hidden under clothes (for theatre use on actors).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Scott Helmke on July 10, 2018, 05:15:07 pm
Unlubricated condoms are the usual theatrical method. 

Some people like to use rubber gloves.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ron Cayman on July 10, 2018, 05:26:48 pm
Unlubricated condoms are the usual theatrical method. 

Some people like to use rubber gloves.

Hahaha first time I'm hearing about it.

But anyway I'm looking for a more professional solution...
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Doug Boyd on July 10, 2018, 05:29:08 pm
Monkey Wrench Productions lists packs of black non-lubed on eBay all the time

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-BLACK-Non-Lubricated-Beltpack-Sweat-Protectors-Bulk-Condoms-/171676426437 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-BLACK-Non-Lubricated-Beltpack-Sweat-Protectors-Bulk-Condoms-/171676426437)
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Jeff Lelko on July 10, 2018, 06:26:42 pm
Monkey Wrench Productions lists packs of black non-lubed on eBay all the time

These are what I use.  Simple and cheap.  If you need true watertight (i.e. submergable) youíll need something more substantial, but for sweat this is my go-to.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: John Fruits on July 10, 2018, 08:23:53 pm
Hahaha first time I'm hearing about it.

But anyway I'm looking for a more professional solution...
Actually condoms ARE the professional solution ;)
An alternate product that might work for you is this:
WMB (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/998100-REG/wireless_mic_belts_sh_ulx1_bp_t_belt_pack_for_shure.html)
The company that makes them has a somewhat broken website, but they do have some vids.
https://www.wirelessmicbelts.com/
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on July 10, 2018, 10:26:56 pm


Actually condoms ARE the professional solution ;)

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/condoms-non-lubricated
Condoms, Non-Lubricated | Gotham Sound


Diogo

Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Jordan Wolf on July 10, 2018, 11:13:40 pm
Actually condoms ARE the professional solution ;)
Yup, absolutely.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Tim Halligan on July 11, 2018, 01:12:52 am
Actually condoms ARE the professional solution ;)

It was always an initiation/rite of passage to send the junior audio assistant to the local chemist to purchase boxes of unlubricated condoms.

Many raised eyebrows from the old customers and staff.

TV can be a cruel place.  ;D

Cheers,
Tim
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Jason Glass on July 11, 2018, 02:22:19 am
Hahaha first time I'm hearing about it.

But anyway I'm looking for a more professional solution...
This IS the longstanding, decades old, tried and true professional solution. Your dismissal of it is offensive and reveals much about your immaturity and/or dogma inspired choice to be ignorant. Even a  quick & cursory Google search affirms condoms as the overwhelming #1 professional choice.

https://www.amazon.com/250-Wireless-Microphone-Sweat-Protectors/dp/B00EB6GQCU



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 11, 2018, 02:43:07 am
Hahaha first time I'm hearing about it.

But anyway I'm looking for a more professional solution...

You must not get out much.  Even high school students know about practicing "safe transmitter". ::)

There is at least 1 company making Neoprene pouches for both Shure and Sennheiser transmitter packs and a couple more that have size-appropriate variations on the zip-lock bag.

The theatre forums probably have years of posts about actors sweating out transmitters and mic elements; you might want to do a goo..e search to review the various methods and materials that are used with particularly wet actors.  A variety of barriers and absorptive materials may be necessary.

I spent 7 years working with a youth musical theatre company and there were some giggles the first couple of shows, but after that the kids didn't have too many comments.  A couple of parents were among the easily offended so the stage manager started calling them "sweat barriers" and the issue went away.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Brian Bolly on July 11, 2018, 03:32:19 am
Oh yes - the freshman A2 in college got to make the run to Costco for the biggest box of unlubed condoms they had.  And a 1.5L handle of Jack Daniels, for the extra special looks from the cashier.   ;D
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: frank kayser on July 11, 2018, 10:39:13 am
Oh yes - the freshman A2 in college got to make the run to Costco for the biggest box of unlubed condoms they had.  And a 1.5L handle of Jack Daniels, for the extra special looks from the cashier.   ;D
Yeah... first time I've heard that, too.  Caught me a little off guard, but after a chuckle, it seems incredibly logical.  After all, the soldiers in Vietnam used them over the flash hider to keep the jungle crud out of the rifle barrels. As it IS THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO SOLUTION, who am I to question?  Good info the keep in your back pocket.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Rick Earl on July 11, 2018, 10:51:08 am
Oh yes - the freshman A2 in college got to make the run to Costco for the biggest box of unlubed condoms they had.  And a 1.5L handle of Jack Daniels, for the extra special looks from the cashier.   ;D

I remember doing an event with Carol Burnett, she picked out a good looking male stage hand and had him bring her body pack out to her on stage.  She made a point to tell the audience that it was wrapped in a condom.   It got a laugh.   
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ike Zimbel on July 11, 2018, 12:02:15 pm
As it IS THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO SOLUTION, who am I to question?  Good info to keep in your back pocket.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
+1, we're using 20+ per night. I thought the expression was "When in Rome, use a Trojan!" ;)
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: John Fruits on July 11, 2018, 01:33:14 pm
A quick follow-up on the wirelessmicbelt.com problems, through the magic of forum networking, Laurie@wirelessmicbelts.com was dealing with the issue.  The website problems are fixed now.  Laurie and her husband (she is a stage manager, her husband is a sound guy) make a great product and stand behind them. 

EDIT: As far as the OP, it is easy to see how someone would think that they were being pranked with the condom thing. 
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ron Cayman on July 11, 2018, 02:46:10 pm
This IS the longstanding, decades old, tried and true professional solution. Your dismissal of it is offensive and reveals much about your immaturity and/or dogma inspired choice to be ignorant. Even a  quick & cursory Google search affirms condoms as the overwhelming #1 professional choice.

Yeah...... well when I said professional I was thinking more along the lines of Shure PA301 (http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/personal-monitor-systems/other-psm-accessories) or Aquapac 158A (https://aquapac.net/store/shop/waterproof-radio-mic/radio-mic-case-158a/), not a condom.

My company runs high profile shows in my country and I'm not going to offer actors a belt pack inside a f***ing condom. Not gonna happen.

Oh yes - the freshman A2 in college got to make the run to Costco for the biggest box of unlubed condoms they had.  And a 1.5L handle of Jack Daniels, for the extra special looks from the cashier.   ;D

That's a good one ;D

A quick follow-up on the wirelessmicbelt.com problems, through the magic of forum networking, Laurie@wirelessmicbelts.com was dealing with the issue.  The website problems are fixed now.  Laurie and her husband (she is a stage manager, her husband is a sound guy) make a great product and stand behind them. 

EDIT: As far as the OP, it is easy to see how someone would think that they were being pranked with the condom thing.

Thank you!

This is exactly what I had in mind (well, one of the options that I had in mind).
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on July 11, 2018, 02:53:07 pm
My general understanding is that the transmitter is wrapped, then placed inside a belt carrier or similar pocket.

Different societies, countries, and regions of the world have different cultural and social norms. YMMV, of course.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ron Cayman on July 11, 2018, 03:18:36 pm
My general understanding is that the transmitter is wrapped, then placed inside a belt carrier or similar pocket.

Most of the time, yes, but not always, and I'm not going to embrace an idea, or a way of operation, in which I might find my techs handing a condom wrapped belt pack to an actor or actress, even if it's once a year. I'm very strict about ways of doing things and I can't do something that I don't like 100%.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Jason Glass on July 11, 2018, 04:41:52 pm
My company runs high profile shows in my country and I'm not going to offer actors a belt pack inside a f***ing condom. Not gonna happen.

I guess Broadway NYC and just about every show in Vegas are low profile?

Most people understand that some clients will have an unreasonably negative reaction to an inanimate piece of latex that was designed to fit the "appendage of sin", and that from a biz perspective we must conform to their (non)sensibilities. Pun intended and such is life. However, it really is a functionally incomparable solution, and it's just a freaking balloon. In fact, they're superior to others in that you can usually see the device display right through them and operate the buttons without  unsheathing.  If you search carefully for a version with non-reservoir tip, they are undentifiable as condoms when properly installed, and actually look quite clean and made for this purpose. Especially the black ones.

I strongly urge you to at least check out this one:

https://www.ripnroll.com/products/wireless-bodypack-sweat-protectors?variant=7007872385088

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 11, 2018, 04:55:35 pm
Most of the time, yes, but not always, and I'm not going to embrace an idea, or a way of operation, in which I might find my techs handing a condom wrapped belt pack to an actor or actress, even if it's once a year. I'm very strict about ways of doing things and I can't do something that I don't like 100%.

I take it you're in a country with charming governance, done mostly by a book of religion.  As I said, it's more about what you call something based on the way you use it, not what folks with 'dirty minds' might think.

The transmitter pack is covered by the barrier, sometimes a cotton roll (like used at the dentists) is placed on top before the barrier is rolled up and over, and then the entire assembly is placed in the "belt and pouch" (we've had those provided by the wardrobe dept). It's entirely possible for the "talent" to be unaware of what is inside the pouch - unless they remove it, and you told them to not mess with the transmitter, right?

Anyway, you've been given the *industry standard* way of protecting transmitter packs, as done at the highest levels of Broadway, the West End, Las Vegas and points in between.

That you seem embarrassed by an inanimate object made of latex is curious... but whatever.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Eric Snodgrass on July 12, 2018, 01:04:52 am
NeoPax belts - https://www.trewaudio.com/product/neopax-wireless-transmitter-belt/  (the link is just for purposes of example - other companies sell these belts)

One size fits (almost) all.  I've used them on young kids and large adults.  They work perfectly and hold the transmitter snugly.
If you are still concerned about sweat getting into the connections and switches on top of the transmitter, do this one simple trick with this belt - turn the belt upside down, with the transmitter top facing down rather than up.  The transmitter will stay in the belt and sweat will not drip down into the pouch. 
If this isn't in your budget, or you don't want to use a belt, then the aforementioned "sweat shields" is still a tried-and-true method.  Just seal the top of the pack with some surgical tape and it will help quite
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: frank kayser on July 12, 2018, 02:54:35 am
<snip>

The transmitter pack is covered by the barrier, sometimes a cotton roll (like used at the dentists) is placed on top before the barrier is rolled up and over, and then the entire assembly is placed in the "belt and pouch" (we've had those provided by the wardrobe dept). It's entirely possible for the "talent" to be unaware of what is inside the pouch - unless they remove it, and you told them to not mess with the transmitter, right?
<snip>


The cotton roll on top got me confused - I was thinking that the transmitter would go in battery-end in first, with the cable(s) and antenna out the open end, and worn antenna-down.  In this orientation, would the cotton roll and/or the tape be necessary?  And I'm also guessing the supplied belt-clip would not be usable, and a pouch necessary.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Chris Ballard on July 12, 2018, 08:15:33 am

The cotton roll on top got me confused - I was thinking that the transmitter would go in battery-end in first, with the cable(s) and antenna out the open end, and worn antenna-down.  In this orientation, would the cotton roll and/or the tape be necessary?  And I'm also guessing the supplied belt-clip would not be usable, and a pouch necessary.

I know that some sweat proof pouches are actually made with holes for the antenna and connector at the bottom, and the pack slides through an opening that is secured at the top. This way, you don't risk the cover coming loose and the pack slipping out of the pouch.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Scott Helmke on July 12, 2018, 09:48:37 am
I know that some sweat proof pouches are actually made with holes for the antenna and connector at the bottom, and the pack slides through an opening that is secured at the top. This way, you don't risk the cover coming loose and the pack slipping out of the pouch.

Way back at the start I mentioned that some people like to use rubber gloves - you can just have the antenna and mic plug sticking up into fingers!
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on July 12, 2018, 01:04:51 pm
We use http://www.sheathes.com/wireless/ and we tell the techs they are NOT CONDOMS and donít ever take one and use it as one or 9 months later you may have another mouth to feed. Also they are bulk packed, not individually wrapped. We tape the mic cable to the side of the pack to give a strain relief and so the sweat doesnít run straight into the connector.  We put the SHEATH on the pack and then put a large cotton ball in the top. And we then put it into the belt pack, we use the Neopax  http://www.neopax.biz/ . We use mostly Shure UHF-R and a few Sennheiser Ew100, it is a little bit of a tight fit but they work great.

The actors see the final product and are mic-ed up with a pre pouched pack. This technique was taught in a class (at AES in NYC) from a Broadway sound lady. I was using some of this technique already but had it reinforced in this class.

The other solution is to buy a Lectrosonics waterproof system. But I would still like to sheath them because sweat is unbelievably caustic. Before I started using the sheaths I had an actor sweat out a transmitter. I took it apart right after the rehearsal and found salt deposits on the boards inside the transmitter I cleaned it all off and it came back to life. The next day we sheathed every pack. it was inside in the summer time and the AC (Air Conditioning) wasnít scheduled to come on during the rehearsals. The show was Grease and they were wearing leather jackets in this heat.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Riley Casey on July 12, 2018, 03:11:39 pm
All the commercially made belt pack pouches I've seen and used over the years were a great way to protect the condom but the condom is what put the 'proof' in waterproof.  Whats to be gained by sneering at the suggestions offered on the forum by other pro sound ops - even when they sneer back?  If you don't think it's of value ask elsewhere.  I suspect you'll get the same answers but you won't have burned bridges doing so.

Yeah...... well when I said professional I was thinking more along the lines of Shure PA301 (http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/personal-monitor-systems/other-psm-accessories) or Aquapac 158A (https://aquapac.net/store/shop/waterproof-radio-mic/radio-mic-case-158a/), not a condom.

My company runs high profile shows in my country and I'm not going to offer actors a belt pack inside a f***ing condom. Not gonna happen.


Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Justin Goodman on July 12, 2018, 03:52:08 pm
Even a condom will allow sweat to drip down the cable, no?  We use "TuneBelt" neoprene pouches in our indoor cycle studio and get SUPER sweaty and our QLXD packs hold up just fine--over 1 year with the same 2 packs now (+ lithium batteries).  I do know that studios which use BLX/SLX packs treat them as consumables. 
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: frank kayser on July 12, 2018, 04:47:41 pm
Even a condom will allow sweat to drip down the cable, no?  We use "TuneBelt" neoprene pouches in our indoor cycle studio and get SUPER sweaty and our QLXD packs hold up just fine--over 1 year with the same 2 packs now (+ lithium batteries).  I do know that studios which use BLX/SLX packs treat them as consumables.


That was my point in asking how to use it.  Transmitter antenna down, anything on the antenna drips off harmlessly.  Cable (if mic is above the waist and beltpack on the waist) would run down, then up to the transmitter, creating a "natural" drip loop, also keeping sweat out - at least that's how I imagine it all working.  Gravity is your friend. 


In any configuration, if you create a drip loop in the cable before the wire enters the transmitter/pouch, it will be that much more difficult for sweat to follow the cable and get into the electronics.  Tape or safety-pin the loop down to stay in place.
Title: Re: Water-tight cover for wireless body-packs
Post by: Ron Cayman on July 13, 2018, 01:54:35 am
That you seem embarrassed by an inanimate object made of latex is curious... but whatever.

I'm not embarrassed, I just know my clients.

All the commercially made belt pack pouches I've seen and used over the years were a great way to protect the condom but the condom is what put the 'proof' in waterproof.  Whats to be gained by sneering at the suggestions offered on the forum by other pro sound ops - even when they sneer back?  If you don't think it's of value ask elsewhere.  I suspect you'll get the same answers but you won't have burned bridges doing so.

Don't get me wrong -- except for one or two, I think all of the replies here are of great value and really helped me in finding what I was looking for and couldn't find by myself.

I understand that this is how things are done at the highest levels in Broadway and Vegas and that's fine, I just wanted more ideas and solutions that will fit my needs.

And again, thank you guys for some really helpful replies.