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Title: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 02:42:36 pm
Hi all.. I am putting together a new lighting system for a small amateur theatre. I am also an amateur lighting guy  ;) so please bear with me.

Our stage is about 40 feet wide by 18ft deep. Ceiling is quite low, only 9ft above the stage. There are two existing bars across the width of the stage. One located about 6 ft in front of the stage. The other is about 6 feet within the front of the stage. Both are located about 6" below the ceiling. We don't own the space so making modifications is limited.

Our performances are fairly low tech with sound effects but no actor mics are in use. We use SCS, Show Cue System for all the audio cues. This software does have support DMX and MIDI cues.

I have been reading forums and watching a lot of Youtube. Most info available is about DJ's and music performances.

Our budget is also limited to under 10k. I am an electronics tech by trade so can handle the installation myself. Majority of the cost will be to the fixtures and console.

I would be interested in suggestions on next steps and possible equipment selections.

Thanks
Rob






Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 20, 2018, 02:55:28 pm
What are you doing for lights right now?
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on June 20, 2018, 03:09:40 pm
With no disrepect intended:  Do you have an understanding of the basics of theater lighting design?  That's the starting point.

Will you be able to install additional battens (pipe) further upstage?

What sort of load are the existing battens designed to hold?  Did a structural engineer sign off on the design and installation?  Once you want to hang anything over the heads of people (even actors) you need to be very sure that it is safe to do so.  The attachment of a batten to the building's load-bearing structure, not the pipe itself, is often the limiting factor.

If you can't hang things safely, it changes your design approach.

If you aren't sure about the answers, is there a local educational institution who can help you out?
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Scott Holtzman on June 20, 2018, 03:15:58 pm
Also as a professional forum you may have noticed we use our real names.  This was noted to you when you signed up.

As soon as a moderator notices your account will be locked until you supply your real name.

Thank you for your cooperation. 
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 03:23:13 pm
What are you doing for lights right now?

Hi Tim. A local contractor rents them to us. He provides us with 12 par cans on the front bar and 4 par cans on the in stage bar plus very old dimmer rack with console.

We would like to get away from renting.

Thanks
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 20, 2018, 03:23:25 pm
Also as a professional forum you may have noticed we use our real names.  This was noted to you when you signed up.

As soon as a moderator notices your account will be locked until you supply your real name.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Huh? I see what looks like a real name.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 20, 2018, 03:28:49 pm
Hi Tim. A local contractor rents them to us. He provides us with 12 par cans on the front bar and 4 par cans on the in stage bar plus very old dimmer rack with console.

We would like to get away from renting.

Thanks


Do you have some type of a budget?

The other questions about rigging, engineer certifications, design competency, etc are all valid, but realistically you are already hanging lights overhead and you are not likely to stop doing it now, so I am going to remove myself from the liabilty portion of this conversation and just concern myself with the lighting portion.


So, whats the budget?
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 03:30:36 pm
With no disrepect intended:  Do you have an understanding of the basics of theater lighting design?  That's the starting point.

Will you be able to install additional battens (pipe) further upstage?

What sort of load are the existing battens designed to hold?  Did a structural engineer sign off on the design and installation?  Once you want to hang anything over the heads of people (even actors) you need to be very sure that it is safe to do so.  The attachment of a batten to the building's load-bearing structure, not the pipe itself, is often the limiting factor.

If you can't hang things safely, it changes your design approach.

If you aren't sure about the answers, is there a local educational institution who can help you out?

No disrespect taken.  The existing bars are permanently attached to the rafters above the ceiling.. They have been used for many years with very old and heavy incandescent lighting rigs.

I am learning as I go..

Appreciate any advice given..

Regards,
Rob
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 03:31:13 pm
Huh? I see what looks like a real name.
lol
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 03:33:44 pm

Do you have some type of a budget?

The other questions about rigging, engineer certifications, design competency, etc are all valid, but realistically you are already hanging lights overhead and you are not likely to stop doing it now, so I am going to remove myself from the liabilty portion of this conversation and just concern myself with the lighting portion.


So, whats the budget?

Budget is under 10k including console.  I would like to go with LED for the flexibility.

Rob
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 20, 2018, 04:15:42 pm
10k won't get you far with LED front lighting. Mid-range fixtures (chauvet ovation) are about a grand a piece. How many zones are you trying to light? Say you want 3 zones across the front. Thats at least 6 lights (better if 9) and then you have to think about specials and gobos if you want them.

I would keep an eye out for some used source4 leko's and an old dimmer. There's nothing wrong with that technology as long as you don't use them for worklights and constantly burn up the lamps.... If you could get 12 lights on (hopefully) 12 dimmer channels up front you'd be looking good.

With a 6ft throw to the front of the stage you are going to need some really wide lenses. Like 50 degree.


On stage overhead light will be a bit easier. You can definately go LED here. I would look into some type of LED Batten type fixture. Something very cheap and get reasonably bright for a color wash batten is this: https://www.chauvetdj.com/products/colorbandpix-usb/

Don't expect to get good skin color or do any type of actor lighting with this. This is scenic stuff. It puts the color on the scene or else it gets the hose again.....

I would intersperse the Colorbands with some type of LED par that has an amber or a white color in it. Like this: https://www.chauvetdj.com/products/slimpar-q12-bt/

These LED pars can highlight scenery with a passable white color, but again. These are scenic lights. Not for actors. I'd put 4-6 of these on the midstage batten along with as many colorbands as you can fit edge to edge. Now you can have a color down-wash and some scenery highlight washes all from midstage.

One downside to using these cheaper lights is that you may need to frost them to get a better coverage. They tend to have a fairly narrow beam. Some gaff and some tough silk will help here.

For a console, it's real hard to beat the Chamsys MagicQ on PC with a wing. Get a 500 dollar touchscreen all-in-one PC and a full size wing and for less than 2000 you have something that looks and feels like a real desk. I hear the new Martin stuff is promising too, but I have no experience with it. The wings are cheaper, but they use a stupid touch-strip instead of real faders. I would hate that I think.


So there's my suggestion. Buy a real desk, get cheap LED's for the stage, and a used system of old school lights for the front wash. I think you can squeak that by for under 10k.

If you have some money left over, buy more COlorband battens and put them as a ground row on your rear wall/drop/Cyc/whatever you have. Then you have a bakground color, mdistage color, and FOH washes.









*edit* I didn't really explain why you don't want to use cheap LED's for your front wash. They look like crap on skin. Cheap LED's don't really provide the complete spectrum of light that is required to have natural skin tones and the like. This metric is usuallu found as a CRi number. The higher it is, the better and more natural it looks. Cheap lights won't even list this number. You want to keep it 90 or above for any light you use for a "white" light on actors. You will blow you whole budget on high-CRi Leko's if you want to buy LED's. Just stick with hot lights for this.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: John Fruits on June 20, 2018, 04:25:38 pm
Well golly, more questions not answers but anyway, where are you located (US or elsewhere), do you have a local lighting supply dealer?  How was the dimmer and par cans installation handled, how were the dimmers tied in?  How much power do you have available?   Will you have to hang and remove your equipment for every show or can it stay in place?  One bit of advice, get a stage lighting textbook, the older editions are very cheap, sometimes $5 or so from Amazon.  Consoles that can handle LEDs and movers are much more expensive than the simple 2 scene boards for incandescent lights.  Consider a computer based option.  The Elation (formerly Martin) M-PC is quite popular.   The ETC Nomad plus gadget is another bargain if you are a student (or teacher) somewhere.   
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 04:59:24 pm
Well golly, more questions not answers but anyway, where are you located (US or elsewhere), do you have a local lighting supply dealer?  How was the dimmer and par cans installation handled, how were the dimmers tied in?  How much power do you have available?   Will you have to hang and remove your equipment for every show or can it stay in place?  One bit of advice, get a stage lighting textbook, the older editions are very cheap, sometimes $5 or so from Amazon.  Consoles that can handle LEDs and movers are much more expensive than the simple 2 scene boards for incandescent lights.  Consider a computer based option.  The Elation (formerly Martin) M-PC is quite popular.   The ETC Nomad plus gadget is another bargain if you are a student (or teacher) somewhere.
Hi John.. Thanks for the reply.. I am in Canada. I do have a couple of suppliers close by. The dimmers were in a portable rack located behind the stage. I have several 20 amp circuits at the same location as the dimmer rack. The equipment will be permanently installed. I will find the textbook, good suggestion.
The shows tend to be run by volunteers so simpler is better. The rental console was a simple two scene that was not very flexible and totally manual in operation.
Rob
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 20, 2018, 05:08:00 pm
Wow, great response, lots of detail. Thank you.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on June 20, 2018, 06:49:01 pm
At the risk of stating the obvious, the first rule of lighting design is you have to get enough light on the faces of the actors for the audience to see them. If your audience can't see the actors, it doesn't matter what fancy effects or colors you have.

Light shining "straight ahead" tends to wash out the features of an actor's face. It is better to shine two lights (one SL, one SR) on an area - it provides modeling and depth to the actor's features.

Lights should ideally come from 45 degrees above and 45 degrees to the side. 30 to 60 degrees above will work. Lower and you just blind the talent. Directly overhead doesn't light the front of the face. Never shine the face light from below, unless you want someone to look like a ghoul.

In order to direct attention to different parts of the stage, you will need to focus them so they divide the stage upstage/downstage, and SL, center stage, and SR. With two lights (cross-lighting) for six zones, that's 12 lighting instruments. With all 12 lights on, the stage will be (should be) evenly washed with light.  That is the basic light hang you will use all the time. If you can't get 12 lights, get 8 and just have SL and SR, upstage and downstage. Split them between the two battens for the upstage/downstage lighting.

Watts don't particularly matter. Luminous intensity is what counts. Any light worth buying will give its photometric specs:  beam and field angle, and the lux at a given distance. For a given output from a light, it can be bright but illuminate a small area, or it can light a broader area with less intensity. (The inverse square law applies, just like in audio.)

While you can get just warm white ("WW") and cool white LEDs, you will probably get more use from an RGBA (red, grren, blue, amber) or RGBW unit. You generally need an amber or a white in order to mix softer colors.

I would generally prefer to have fewer intense lights than lots of not-so-bright lights.  You should try to borrow or demo any light you are considering to see if you have sufficient lux on stage, focused in an appropriate manner.

There is lots more to know, but that is the basic light plot. After you have the basic wash, you can start doing more interesting things.

Tip:  If possible, you should get the 12 wash lights (all the same model) at the same time. You'll have better chance that the LEDs will all render colors the same way.  A "one light a month" plan usually doesn't work out as well.  Sets of 4 is the minimum, at least in the beginning.


Edit: Lots of good posts as I was tapping out my reply on an iPhone. Sorry for any redundant info.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Scott Holtzman on June 21, 2018, 01:20:47 am
Huh? I see what looks like a real name.
It wasnt there when I posted that Tom just a nickname.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Scott Holtzman on June 21, 2018, 01:23:42 am
lol
Rob,  you did update it right?  If not I am going batshit crazy.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 21, 2018, 08:21:23 am
At the risk of stating the obvious, the first rule of lighting design is you have to get enough light on the faces of the actors for the audience to see them. If your audience can't see the actors, it doesn't matter what fancy effects or colors you have.

Light shining "straight ahead" tends to wash out the features of an actor's face. It is better to shine two lights (one SL, one SR) on an area - it provides modeling and depth to the actor's features.

Lights should ideally come from 45 degrees above and 45 degrees to the side. 30 to 60 degrees above will work. Lower and you just blind the talent. Directly overhead doesn't light the front of the face. Never shine the face light from below, unless you want someone to look like a ghoul.

In order to direct attention to different parts of the stage, you will need to focus them so they divide the stage upstage/downstage, and SL, center stage, and SR. With two lights (cross-lighting) for six zones, that's 12 lighting instruments. With all 12 lights on, the stage will be (should be) evenly washed with light.  That is the basic light hang you will use all the time. If you can't get 12 lights, get 8 and just have SL and SR, upstage and downstage. Split them between the two battens for the upstage/downstage lighting.

Watts don't particularly matter. Luminous intensity is what counts. Any light worth buying will give its photometric specs:  beam and field angle, and the lux at a given distance. For a given output from a light, it can be bright but illuminate a small area, or it can light a broader area with less intensity. (The inverse square law applies, just like in audio.)

While you can get just warm white ("WW") and cool white LEDs, you will probably get more use from an RGBA (red, grren, blue, amber) or RGBW unit. You generally need an amber or a white in order to mix softer colors.

I would generally prefer to have fewer intense lights than lots of not-so-bright lights.  You should try to borrow or demo any light you are considering to see if you have sufficient lux on stage, focused in an appropriate manner.

There is lots more to know, but that is the basic light plot. After you have the basic wash, you can start doing more interesting things.

Tip:  If possible, you should get the 12 wash lights (all the same model) at the same time. You'll have better chance that the LEDs will all render colors the same way.  A "one light a month" plan usually doesn't work out as well.  Sets of 4 is the minimum, at least in the beginning.


Edit: Lots of good posts as I was tapping out my reply on an iPhone. Sorry for any redundant info.
Thanks for the detailed info, Mark..

Appreciated..
Rob
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 21, 2018, 08:22:01 am
Rob,  you did update it right?  If not I am going batshit crazy.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Indeed..  8)
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 21, 2018, 08:59:11 am
Hi all.. I am putting together a new lighting system for a small amateur theatre. I am also an amateur lighting guy  ;) so please bear with me.

Our stage is about 40 feet wide by 18ft deep. Ceiling is quite low, only 9ft above the stage. There are two existing bars across the width of the stage. One located about 6 ft in front of the stage. The other is about 6 feet within the front of the stage. Both are located about 6" below the ceiling. We don't own the space so making modifications is limited.

Our performances are fairly low tech with sound effects but no actor mics are in use. We use SCS, Show Cue System for all the audio cues. This software does have support DMX and MIDI cues.

I have been reading forums and watching a lot of Youtube. Most info available is about DJ's and music performances.

Our budget is also limited to under 10k. I am an electronics tech by trade so can handle the installation myself. Majority of the cost will be to the fixtures and console.

I would be interested in suggestions on next steps and possible equipment selections.

Thanks
Rob

Based on the limited stage dimensions and everything I have learned from this forum and others, 

I should purchase 12 fixtures to provide the stage wash coverage. The fixtures need to have a wide field, colour accurate and bright enough.

Possible solutions that I have found include Chauvet COLORado 1 Solo ($800CAD) , Chauvet COLORado 1-Quad Zoom ($775CAD) or Elation FUZE PAR Z60. ($1000CAD).  All have RGBW emitters which should help with accurate skin colours. The 1-Quad has the highest LUX (324)when zoomed out.

Also considering the Jands Stage CL console ($2000CAD).  I need to keep the show operation as simple as pressing one button to change the scene. This unit looks promising.

Any experience with this devices?

Thanks again for all suggestions..
Rob
 

Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: John Fruits on June 21, 2018, 10:13:04 am
As is often said, always get a demo of any fixtures you are considering, see what they look like in your space.  Also, just for giggles, see if you can get a Chauvet Ovation F-55FC It's very likely not bright enough, but has great color(due to the lime emitters, just like ETC colorsource).
In addition to the Jands CL, also take a look at the Colorsource 20, It should be only a bit more expensive.  The Jands is quite limited compared to the Colorsource.
Traditionally your light in the FOH position would be ERS spots (Leko's) but they are very likely outside your budget for now.  The major advantage is they have framing shutters so you can keep light off the ceiling, stage apron and side walls.  They can also project gobos.  In addition to the par type fixtures you are considering, take a look at the ETC colorsource Pars,  they are a fixed beam angle so you have to use the ETC beam shaping filters,  they come in oval, round and linear.  This is where buying from a local dealer in important, They should be able to let you try several filters to get just the spread you need. (they are kind of spendy).
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 21, 2018, 10:54:12 am
As is often said, always get a demo of any fixtures you are considering, see what they look like in your space.  Also, just for giggles, see if you can get a Chauvet Ovation F-55FC It's very likely not bright enough, but has great color(due to the lime emitters, just like ETC colorsource).
In addition to the Jands CL, also take a look at the Colorsource 20, It should be only a bit more expensive.  The Jands is quite limited compared to the Colorsource.
Traditionally your light in the FOH position would be ERS spots (Leko's) but they are very likely outside your budget for now.  The major advantage is they have framing shutters so you can keep light off the ceiling, stage apron and side walls.  They can also project gobos.  In addition to the par type fixtures you are considering, take a look at the ETC colorsource Pars,  they are a fixed beam angle so you have to use the ETC beam shaping filters,  they come in oval, round and linear.  This is where buying from a local dealer in important, They should be able to let you try several filters to get just the spread you need. (they are kind of spendy).

I like the idea of the Ovation F-55RC on the mid stage bar. Better field width than the others and with the low ceiling, the smaller form factor should be helpful. Price is less as well.
You are right about the Lekos and my lack of budget. .

Thanks John..

Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Nathan Riddle on June 21, 2018, 03:26:41 pm
Also considering the Jands Stage CL console ($2000CAD).  I need to keep the show operation as simple as pressing one button to change the scene. This unit looks promising.

I have and love Jands, though I'd suggest getting Vista, not the CL and running it off of a computer with an Art-Net (or sACN) dongle for DMX connectivity.

You don't absolutely need a console to program/run a show, it can all be done from the computer.

The software is free to download and try. Give it a whirl.

---

The rest, I wouldn't have more to say than the others.

S4's on the front and some cheaper* (within reason) RGBWA+UV lights for CYC & adding color on the overhead battens.

S4 Pars/Parnels on the battens for overhead white/colored (high CRI) on the battens.

You should be able to do that reasonably well within 10k.

Talk to a dealer on the forums (Mike Pyle, amongst others) for some good pricing on equipment (unless you have a local company you know/trust, then go through them).
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 22, 2018, 12:10:26 pm
I wouldn't be inclined to use any of those "par can" style fixtures for front washes. They offer the least amount of beam shaping there is.

I use a pile of Elation Fuze wash fixtures. The z60's won't be bright enough. I have 10 of the z175's and they aren't as bright as my actual front washes (Ovation 260's). The Fuze Washes are excellent lights, and the skin tones can be "OK" but the barn doors don't work that well for beam shaping. You will have lighting spill all over the place. Also the zoom never puts the light where you really want it. It either lights up the actor's face AND too much left and right, or no face and perfect left and right. You don't get both.

What you really, really need is Ellipsoidals up front. This will let you frame in the areas you really want the light, and exclude light from the places you want dark.

12 old school lekos and a dimmer is a cheap and reliable option. Save the LED for colors. Using LED pars (even zoomable) up front will be dissapointing in almost every single way. If you really need LED front washes, I highly recomend the Chauvet Ovation series. The 160's would be brighter than you can even imagine at 6 feet. I'm using 160's with a 26degree lens for a 25' throw. I'm using the 260's for over 30' throws with 26 and 36 degree lenses.

You can see the 160's on the upper band stand. The 260's cover the pastor and singer areas. All the color comes from Elation Fuze fixtures. Z175's fixed on the stage and 4 Z350's out in the house to cover different areas. I have Altman SpectraStrips on the background.

The singers have 2 lights at some angle left and right covering their front wash. The Musicians on the bandstand each have 1 "special" which is a Ovation 160WW pointed at them from the down center area. You can see the difference 2 angled lights make over one light in front of the subject. 


You can see some of this here.
https://youtu.be/KdCNqlOiIkc
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 22, 2018, 12:17:53 pm
If you go back and see our videos from even just 6 months ago you can see what crappy par can lighting looks like. This is what I walked in to when I got to this job.

I spent 40 grand buying 15 Ovation Leko's, 10 Fuze Z175's, 4 Fuze Z350's and 8 Fuze 120's. I still haven't put the 120's up yet. The only thing I kept was the SpectraStrips we already had.

I already had a console. It's a MagicQ wing on a touchscreen computer. I have volunteers run it and all they do is punch a go button.

Compare the above video to this one which is "par cans in the face".
https://youtu.be/sIcGavnUlX8
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 22, 2018, 04:53:01 pm
I like the idea of the Ovation F-55RC on the mid stage bar. Better field width than the others and with the low ceiling, the smaller form factor should be helpful. Price is less as well.
You are right about the Lekos and my lack of budget. .

Thanks John..

Here is the stage and view of the existing fixtures and bars.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Scott Holtzman on June 22, 2018, 07:19:59 pm
If you go back and see our videos from even just 6 months ago you can see what crappy par can lighting looks like. This is what I walked in to when I got to this job.

I spent 40 grand buying 15 Ovation Leko's, 10 Fuze Z175's, 4 Fuze Z350's and 8 Fuze 120's. I still haven't put the 120's up yet. The only thing I kept was the SpectraStrips we already had.

I already had a console. It's a MagicQ wing on a touchscreen computer. I have volunteers run it and all they do is punch a go button.

Compare the above video to this one which is "par cans in the face".
https://youtu.be/sIcGavnUlX8

That's a heck of praise band you got there Tim.    Our fellowship is AoG also, I don't get involved in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpntec-rtTo



Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on June 22, 2018, 09:05:43 pm
Here is the stage and view of the existing fixtures and bars.

With such a short distance from the battens to the stage, cross lighting also has the effect of providing a longer optical focus distance. If you have enough lumens, you can use that to your advantage by needing a smaller beam and field angle.

As mentioned in the posts above, being able to shape and control the beam through the use of the shutters in a leko/source 4 type instrument provides a great advantage in theater work and lighting design. Since you already have installed circuits and dimmers, I second the suggestions about finding used leko/S4 instruments for FOH and "specials" useage.

Study up on the theater lighting textbooks before you start spending money. You will be able to make wiser decisions if you learn some design basics first.  Best wishes.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 23, 2018, 02:33:54 pm
That's a heck of praise band you got there Tim.    Our fellowship is AoG also, I don't get involved in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpntec-rtTo

Lol, yeah they are all old pros up there on the bandstand. Thats one of the things that lured me away from touring to being a Church tech. This Church gets it. They pay for the musicians and the techs, and they are great about letting us decide what to do and how to do it. Hence getting to spend 40 large on new lights! It makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 23, 2018, 03:02:26 pm
For a small local stage, I set up a few Colorado Solo1 RGBWs.
What I like about them is the zoomability, and thier homogenized beam. 
I added masks in the gel frames to shape the wide beam stage wash, but when zoomed down, it misses the mask and becomes a soft edge spot.
PM me for Chauvet pricing.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: John Fruits on June 23, 2018, 03:56:34 pm
Hey Rob, one little detail that might help you some, instead of fixtures with the standard C-clamp, you could raise the fixtures up a few inches by using (properly sized) truss clamps(Cheeseborough, half-couplers, whatever).  These types of clamps are designed for a certain diameter pipe or tube.  Since I am from the US I am used to imperial rather than metric dimensions, but I can't tell the diameter of your battens.  The usual size here is 1.5" Schedule 40 pipe with an OD of 1.9" and truss chords with an OD of 2.0", sometimes 1.25" Schedule 40 is used with an OD of 1.66".  By guessing, the pipe in your picture may be even smaller.  One other detail, some yoke style fixtures only have one height position (like the PAR cans in your photo), some fixtures like ERS's and Fresnels sometimes several hanging heights available (extra holes in the yoke). That can also save a few inches when used in low ceiling situations.  You do have to be careful of getting hot fixtures near the ceiling tho. 
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on June 23, 2018, 10:36:56 pm
Half-couplers are also called "O" clamps. Don't buy the plastic/nylon ones; the Global Truss brand "mini" clamp (rated at 100 kg) are good enough for light-weight fixtures, and are pretty cheap in quantities. (Look for 10-packs.)
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 24, 2018, 07:27:07 pm
Hey Rob, one little detail that might help you some, instead of fixtures with the standard C-clamp, you could raise the fixtures up a few inches by using (properly sized) truss clamps(Cheeseborough, half-couplers, whatever).  These types of clamps are designed for a certain diameter pipe or tube.  Since I am from the US I am used to imperial rather than metric dimensions, but I can't tell the diameter of your battens.  The usual size here is 1.5" Schedule 40 pipe with an OD of 1.9" and truss chords with an OD of 2.0", sometimes 1.25" Schedule 40 is used with an OD of 1.66".  By guessing, the pipe in your picture may be even smaller.  One other detail, some yoke style fixtures only have one height position (like the PAR cans in your photo), some fixtures like ERS's and Fresnels sometimes several hanging heights available (extra holes in the yoke). That can also save a few inches when used in low ceiling situations.  You do have to be careful of getting hot fixtures near the ceiling tho.
Great idea, thank you.
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Rob Enders on June 24, 2018, 07:39:22 pm
For a small local stage, I set up a few Colorado Solo1 RGBWs.
What I like about them is the zoomability, and thier homogenized beam. 
I added masks in the gel frames to shape the wide beam stage wash, but when zoomed down, it misses the mask and becomes a soft edge spot.
PM me for Chauvet pricing.
Thanks for the input..

The specs indicate that the Solo 1 has only 97 lux at 40deg vs the Quad 1 Zoom has 324 lux at 32deg. I am concerned that the Solo won't have enough brightness when wide.
Have you used the Quad 1 Zoom, if so how does it compare in real life?

Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Rob
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 26, 2018, 01:21:20 am
Thanks for the input..

The specs indicate that the Solo 1 has only 97 lux at 40deg vs the Quad 1 Zoom has 324 lux at 32deg. I am concerned that the Solo won't have enough brightness when wide.
Have you used the Quad 1 Zoom, if so how does it compare in real life?

Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Rob

Brightness measurements have to be qualified with a zoom angle and "what color" is being measured. Is it all channels on making an ugly blue-white? Is it a pleasing neutral white? Is it all red or green?

I know on my Fuze washes the blue channel is only at about 15 percent in my "warm white" setting. So what does that do to the brightness rating when 1/4 of my total lighting is nearly turned off?
Title: Re: New LED lighting system for small amateur theatre
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 26, 2018, 11:39:16 pm
Thanks for the input..

The specs indicate that the Solo 1 has only 97 lux at 40deg vs the Quad 1 Zoom has 324 lux at 32deg. I am concerned that the Solo won't have enough brightness when wide.
Have you used the Quad 1 Zoom, if so how does it compare in real life?

Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Rob

The difference between 32 degrees and 40 is huge from an output standpoint.
The Solo 2 and Solo 3 have wore output for more money.