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Title: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Dave Pluke on June 09, 2018, 03:26:38 pm
O.K., I give up!  Looks as though I can no longer resist the Apple collective.  I'm researching an iPad Pro purchase to use for Live Audio applications (not anticipating getting hooked on any other usage) and would welcome advice from the group.  My leanings so far:

a) refurbished through Apple, as they replace the battery and case and provide a 1 year warranty (other refurbs I've seen only go out 90 days).

b) 12.9" model - easier on my old eyes and fat fingers.

c) 128GB or better

d) Wifi only

e) uncertain as to the merits of the newer (and more expensive) generation over the previous one.

Am I on the right path?  Any warnings or other suggestions that should be considered before taking the plunge?

thanks in advance,

Dave
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 09, 2018, 03:45:41 pm
Good luck, Dave.  {Mission, Impossible theme plays}

Apple Store refurb warranty can be augmented with AppleCare (read the terms first), IIRC.  My experience buying from Apple (for my union Local) is positive and I purchased my iPad2 (ancient, it is!) from Apple.

Size translates to weight, and while they can put a bigger battery inside a bigger case you also have a larger display to power.  Look a projected run times - I don't know if there is a difference but it's important enough that looking is a good thing.

As for versions of product - as iOS gets updated eventually Apple has to leave behind some older hardware which means some of your apps will stop updating or possible not work at all, especially if you update the target hardware's firmware.  FWIW it took some time before my iPad2 got to that point, maybe 5 years?  I only use it for audio applications, no games, music or video on it.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Art Nadelman on June 09, 2018, 03:46:12 pm

a) refurbished through Apple, as they replace the battery and case and provide a 1 year warranty (other refurbs I've seen only go out 90 days).

c) 128GB or better


Refurb through the Apple store is definitely the way to go.  If you're just going to use it for live audio, though, no reason to go with 128GB.  64 GB of storage will be plenty for a small program.

Also, get the 2017 model, rather than the 2015 model.

They have the 2017 iPad for $239 with 32GB of storage if you REALLY want to save some money.

Art
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Jeff Lelko on June 09, 2018, 04:34:12 pm
b) 12.9" model - easier on my old eyes and fat fingers.

c) 128GB or better

d) Wifi only

I'll warn you that the Apple Ecosystem is addicting!  I'm not an Apple fanboy by any means but their products work very well for my needs (high reliability, no "forced updates", etc.).  I bought my iPad specifically for my A&H Qu-Pac, but last year finally pushed all my business laptops to 2017 Macbook Pros and love it. 

What you spec'd above is exactly what I have, though it's a generation 1 that I bought new.  Before buying I compared it against the 9" model and for digital mixing it was too small for me to be comfortable with.  The 12.9" model is the way to go if you plan to really work on it.  I'd suggest stopping in at your local Apple Store (if there's one around, otherwise Best Buy will do) and have a look.  They're not cheap but 100% worth it, to me at least.  While I don't use the full 128GB, 32 is too little (and I travel light), and at least when I was in the market a 64GB model wasn't available. 

One thing I highly suggest is getting the AppleCare+.  Mine just paid for itself yesterday in fact!  While nothing "broke" per say, one corner of the touchscreen wouldn't always respond as expected.  If my iPad was only a plaything it'd be a nuisance, but for live sound or lighting an unexpected "press" can have grave consequences!  With about 2 weeks left on my 2 year AppleCare+ warranty I took the unit in for evaluation and while nothing appeared to be wrong, Apple is going to replace the entire iPad for me.  Granted it'll be a "like new" unit as opposed to a packaged unit off the shelf, but for 100% free I'll take it! 

Good luck!  You'll really enjoy it!   
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 09, 2018, 04:53:31 pm
I have owned 4 iPads starting with gen2. Currently I use an iPad air for lights and iPad pro 9.7" for sound.
Last time I checked, the iPad pro is a much faster processor than the others - even the 5th gen version. I can tell when I compare things like lighting software. The hit on the software button is almost instantaneous with the iPad pro - not so with the others. Even the iPad air has a slight lag. Might not matter too much using mixing software but navigating around on it for other stuff is much faster too.
The screen although not much bigger than my old one, feels bigger overall - makes a difference and the screen resolution is nice and clear so you might be surprised just how well you can 'fat finger' your way around it - LOL.


edit: correction. Mine is the 10.5" with the 10x processor (makes more sense-LOL)
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on June 09, 2018, 05:48:31 pm
With about 2 weeks left on my 2 year AppleCare+ warranty I took the unit in for evaluation and while nothing appeared to be wrong, Apple is going to replace the entire iPad for me.  Granted it'll be a "like new" unit as opposed to a packaged unit off the shelf, but for 100% free I'll take it! 

Good luck!  You'll really enjoy it!

Free ?? How much did 2 years of Apple Care cost you?  I am honestly curious-in 2 weeks that money would have been an expense with little benefit.  I'm not saying it's not a good move.  It is impressive that Apple marketing has people feeling good that there was a failure-so their investment paid off. :)
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Jeff Lelko on June 09, 2018, 07:47:57 pm
Free ?? How much did 2 years of Apple Care cost you?  I am honestly curious-in 2 weeks that money would have been an expense with little benefit.  I'm not saying it's not a good move.  It is impressive that Apple marketing has people feeling good that there was a failure-so their investment paid off. :)

Yes, free - the repair invoice actually says $0.00.  I believe the 2yr AppleCare+ product cost me $99, so in essence I got a new iPad Pro for $99 if we consider a glitchy touchscreen to render it useless.  I'm usually not a big supporter of the extended warranty plans when purchasing electronics, but AppleCare+ is an exception to me.  What's more is that AppleCare+ also covers accidental damage.  While such repairs usually aren't 100% free (and there's a limit to how many claims you can make), I don't want to end up paying $599 for a new screen just because of a trip or slip, which is what I would have paid yesterday had it not been for AppleCare+.  Given that we use our products in the field around heavy equipment and clumsy people there's a finite possibility an accident will happen, so that $99 is money well spent if a drunk patron spills beer into it. 

I'm not sure just how far accidental coverage goes though nor do I care to find out.  I crew member of mine had his iPad destroyed a few years ago when a low-breaking firework shell melted the screen.  I never found out if Apple honored this as "accidental damage", but I would have liked to hear the story he told!
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Dave Pluke on June 09, 2018, 08:01:48 pm
Refurb through the Apple store is definitely the way to go.  If you're just going to use it for live audio, though, no reason to go with 128GB.  64 GB of storage will be plenty for a small program.

Also, get the 2017 model, rather than the 2015 model.

So, there's only a $20 difference between the 128GB prior Generation version and the 64GB current one (both refurb'd).  You're positive the latter is the better option (keeping in mind the "PC Guy" in me wants as much memory as possible)?

thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 02:02:33 am
I'd been Apple-free until 2015, when I got an iPad for drone use.  Since then, I've picked up all sizes and GB for more applications, including camera remote control and audio.  I agree that the 128GB is not needed.  In most cases, I can record multiple tracks from an entire live gig (using Auria) with the 64GB.  I do like the speed (& size) of the larger iPad Pro.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Art Nadelman on June 10, 2018, 08:15:18 am
So, there's only a $20 difference between the 128GB prior Generation version and the 64GB current one (both refurb'd).  You're positive the latter is the better option (keeping in mind the "PC Guy" in me wants as much memory as possible)?


It's not RAM.  It's storage.  If you don't need the storage space, no reason to buy it.  Now...  if you want to put other programs on it, run music on iTunes and store you music on it, then absolutely, buy more storage.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on June 10, 2018, 08:29:12 am
So, there's only a $20 difference between the 128GB prior Generation version and the 64GB current one (both refurb'd).  You're positive the latter is the better option (keeping in mind the "PC Guy" in me wants as much memory as possible)?

thanks,
Dave

Unless you are planning on making the ipad pro your main photo taking device (don't) or loading up tons of movies or music, I would take the faster processor over increased storage.  64GB will go a long ways.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Frank Koenig on June 10, 2018, 11:44:16 am
I've had a iPad Pro 12.9 (2nd gen) for about 6 months now. I bought it primarily for three purposes: to use with the dLive mixrack for setting up monitors and doing small, deskless gigs; Foreflight, which is a flight planning and management app; and as a backcountry car navigation system with locally stored maps. Some observations:

If you want the built-in GPS receiver (I did) you must get the cellular radio capability as well, but you're not forced to use it. It's just how the features are bundled. The GPS receiver performs well and has little trouble working inside vehicles.

I had trouble finding a suitable case. I ended up with a "Survivor" case intended for a 1st gen 12.9 and hacked out the screen protector and cut two holes to expose the ambient light sensors which had moved between versions. I presume more suitable cases have become available.

My old eyes and fat fingers love the large screen.

Without having done a formal test, battery life appears to be much longer than my other iThingies. Phantom discharge (when off) is pretty slow, too.

WIFI and Bluetooth radios are solid.

Apple has still not solved the thermal management problem, which likely is exacerbated by the case. Leave in the sun for more than a few minutes and it WILL shut down. This really sucks for both sound and flying.

For use as car navigation system a good near normal line-of-sight mount is essential. For flying I'm fine with it in my lap but somehow for driving that just doesn't work. I'm still working on a solution.

--Frank
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Dave Pluke on June 10, 2018, 12:03:13 pm
It's not RAM.  It's storage.  If you don't need the storage space, no reason to buy it.

DOH!  There I go again, evaluating from a PC perspective.

And, thanks @Frank for the clarification on GPS.  I'd noticed it was only mentioned on Cellular versions - now I know why.  Anyway, I've got a couple of Android phones that handle my mapping duties.

Thanks to all for the responses!

Dave
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Art Nadelman on June 10, 2018, 03:10:29 pm

Apple has still not solved the thermal management problem, which likely is exacerbated by the case. Leave in the sun for more than a few minutes and it WILL shut down. This really sucks for both sound and flying.


I have solved that problem mixing here in the Florida sun.  I place a hand towel on whatever surface I'm mixing on, place 2 frozen bottles of water on it and then place the iPad directly on those.  The aluminum case of the iPad radiates the cool throughout the iPad.  I change the bottles out every 1-1/2 hours or so.  I run 4 hour gigs the first Sunday afternoon of every month at a tiki bar with my iPads, frozen bottles and a beautiful view of the water.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Rob Spence on June 10, 2018, 04:19:11 pm
Free ?? How much did 2 years of Apple Care cost you?  I am honestly curious-in 2 weeks that money would have been an expense with little benefit.  I'm not saying it's not a good move.  It is impressive that Apple marketing has people feeling good that there was a failure-so their investment paid off. :)
You buy insurance and if you donít make a claim you get no benefit but you still do it. Apple Care is insurance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Rob Spence on June 10, 2018, 04:22:13 pm
So, there's only a $20 difference between the 128GB prior Generation version and the 64GB current one (both refurb'd).  You're positive the latter is the better option (keeping in mind the "PC Guy" in me wants as much memory as possible)?

thanks,
Dave

Memory in iPads is Disk in PCs

If you only load a dozen apps and a couple hundred songs, 32g will do.

You cannot change what in the PC world is memory. Newer has more.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Rob Spence on June 10, 2018, 04:28:43 pm
I bought a 9.x iPad Pro last winter. I wanted the fastest processor.

One drawback was that to increase the screen size they reduced the border resulting in fewer places to hold it.

Personally, Today, i would buy one of the new iPads instead of the pro since the new ones do the pencil thing too and have fast processors.

Of course, I use mine for many things so the giant screen model wasnít something I want to haul around.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Ed Hall on June 10, 2018, 06:24:52 pm

Apple has still not solved the thermal management problem, which likely is exacerbated by the case. Leave in the sun for more than a few minutes and it WILL shut down. This really sucks for both sound and flying.

First time this happened to me I was mixing on an X32R. Thatís when I learned to ALWAYS have a wired connection as backup.

Now I always carry an instant cold compress. The kind you squeeze until it pops inside and gets instantly cold. It cools the iPad very quickly and keeps you going. Only costs a few dollars and has a several year shelf life.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Dave Pluke on June 10, 2018, 09:07:36 pm
You buy insurance and if you donít make a claim you get no benefit but you still do it. Apple Care is insurance.

And it appears as though rates may have been adjusted upwards since Jeff purchased his.  AppleCare was offered for my iPad Pro purchase at $99 - but, as to the accidental coverage:

Quote from: Apple as of 2018-06-10
Coverage for up to two incidents of accidental damage from handling of your iPad, each subject to a $49 service fee plus applicable tax

I opted not to purchase AppleCare.  As I understand it, I'll have another opportunity when the iPad arrives and I create my Apple ID.  But, I'll probably pass then, too.

Dave

Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Scott Helmke on June 10, 2018, 10:38:19 pm
My younger co-workers are fine with the iPad mini - I ended up just buying the regular iPad and it's totally fine with my middle-aged eyes. 
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Jeff Lelko on June 11, 2018, 06:58:42 am
And it appears as though rates may have been adjusted upwards since Jeff purchased his.  AppleCare was offered for my iPad Pro purchase at $99 - but, as to the accidental coverage:

Coverage for up to two incidents of accidental damage from handling of your iPad, each subject to a $49 service fee plus applicable tax

That's the way mine is too.  Since there was no visible damage to the screen they were just nice and labeled my incident as a product defect and not accidental damage, which then would have cost me $49 as you mentioned.  You're right though - it's an insurance policy, and like most insurance policies there's a deductible of sorts that you pay for certain incidents.  If my iPad lived on a desk I probably wouldn't bother with the AppleCare+, but since it's always out in the field I like having the piece of mind that a split-second accident won't set me back $599.

I believe you have 60 days from the date of purchase to sign up if you'd like.  To each our own on the necessity of it, but given that I usually buy my devices "new" it's a small price to pay on an already expensive product to ensure I'll get at least 2yrs of use from it. 
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: DavidTurner on June 11, 2018, 05:02:54 pm
It used to be that one could purchase the extended warranty any time before the original expires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Jeff Lelko on June 11, 2018, 05:43:05 pm
It used to be that one could purchase the extended warranty any time before the original expires.

And I believe that's still the case for AppleCare, but AppleCare+ must be within the first 60 days.  At least to me the (+) is what really makes the extended warranty plan worth it.
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Dave Pluke on June 13, 2018, 12:15:30 pm

You cannot change what in the PC world is memory. Newer has more.


Again, my sincere appreciation goes out to all those who have chimed in.

I heeded your collective advice and got the newer version, 12.9" Pro with 64GB of storage.  It arrived today and appears brand, spanking new.  Also nice to know that Industrial Designers find gainful employment at Apple (every detail, down to cable wrap and box seal, is a work of art).  Just topping off the battery and updating firmware now.

Still a reluctant "convert", but refurbished direct from Apple was definitely the way to go!

Dave
Title: Re: Resistance is futile - iPad Pro advice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 13, 2018, 02:27:44 pm
I have owned 4 iPads starting with gen2. Currently I use an iPad air for lights and iPad pro 9.7" for sound.
Last time I checked, the iPad pro is a much faster processor than the others - even the 5th gen version. I can tell when I compare things like lighting software. The hit on the software button is almost instantaneous with the iPad pro - not so with the others. Even the iPad air has a slight lag. Might not matter too much using mixing software but navigating around on it for other stuff is much faster too.
The screen although not much bigger than my old one, feels bigger overall - makes a difference and the screen resolution is nice and clear so you might be surprised just how well you can 'fat finger' your way around it - LOL.

I just realized mine is the 10.5" version - not the 9.7... oops.
Pleased to hear you got your iPad Dave - have fun!!