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Title: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 29, 2017, 05:31:12 pm
Went out this lunchtime to do a daytime set up in a local restaurant/bar ready for this evening and one of my DSR112's wasn't working - or at lest the woofer. I can hear the horn but no woofer. Definitely the speaker - iPod directly in and same result. So I brought them both home with me and will be taking the SRX112's with me to replace them. The sound check was mainly for the iems today anyway... I'll just tweak the FOH sound during the first song.
What I find weird is that they were used twice last weekend and sounded fine so something happened between tear down last saturday and set up today - oh well I suppose stuff happens.
They have never been driven harder than they can safely handle but I have had quite some use out of them - just hit 3 years old.
Gonna be claiming on my 7 year warranty next week!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stu McDoniel on December 29, 2017, 06:14:47 pm
Went out this lunchtime to do a daytime set up in a local restaurant/bar ready for this evening and one of my DSR112's wasn't working - or at lest the woofer. I can hear the horn but no woofer. Definitely the speaker - iPod directly in and same result. So I brought them both home with me and will be taking the SRX112's with me to replace them. The sound check was mainly for the iems today anyway... I'll just tweak the FOH sound during the first song.
What I find weird is that they were used twice last weekend and sounded fine so something happened between tear down last saturday and set up today - oh well I suppose stuff happens.
They have never been driven harder than they can safely handle but I have had quite some use out of them - just hit 3 years old.
Gonna be claiming on my 7 year warranty next week!!
Always good to have a backup Deb !
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Hofmann on December 29, 2017, 06:22:59 pm
Interesting. Had one go down recently almost one year in service, mounted on a wall in an install. Again not driven very hard.
Had a bad hum with no inputs connected. Contractor came and got it. Haven't heard back on the cause. Yea for the 7- year warranty!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Cailen Waddell on December 29, 2017, 07:10:25 pm
Went out this lunchtime to do a daytime set up in a local restaurant/bar ready for this evening and one of my DSR112's wasn't working - or at lest the woofer. I can hear the horn but no woofer. Definitely the speaker - iPod directly in and same result. So I brought them both home with me and will be taking the SRX112's with me to replace them. The sound check was mainly for the iems today anyway... I'll just tweak the FOH sound during the first song.
What I find weird is that they were used twice last weekend and sounded fine so something happened between tear down last saturday and set up today - oh well I suppose stuff happens.
They have never been driven harder than they can safely handle but I have had quite some use out of them - just hit 3 years old.
Gonna be claiming on my 7 year warranty next week!!

If the woofer isn’t working it might be worth cracking it open to make sure you don’t have a loose wire....


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Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Nathan Riddle on December 29, 2017, 09:44:32 pm
If the woofer isn’t working it might be worth cracking it open to make sure you don’t have a loose wire....

IFF!! The warranty isn't voided!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jay Marr on December 29, 2017, 09:46:04 pm
If the woofer isn’t working it might be worth cracking it open to make sure you don’t have a loose wire....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1
There was a thread where someone had a similar problem with the DSR and found that cleaning and re-seating some of the connectors brought it back to life.

For the record, my bandmate had the exact same thing happen to his DSRs.  Not driven hard in the slightest.  One day...no woofer.

So far, so good on my pair.


Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Don Ernst on December 29, 2017, 11:01:55 pm
Debbie,

I have 12 DSR112’s and all but 1 of them have been great.  That 1 speaker lost the horn.  I opened it up and found a connector had come loose.  Put it back on and all is good.  That’s probably what happened to yours.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 30, 2017, 02:11:06 am
Show went well and the SRX's sounded great. Chris really noticed the difference though in the weight getting them up on stands..... we have been favoring the Yamahas in those smaller venues for some time because they are so much lighter.....
Thank goodness I am fortunate enough to have alternative speakers I can use and nice ones at that!..
I'll just take them in for repair I think - I have no problem opening them up but I don't want any questions asked if the repair is more involved than a loose wire ....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 30, 2017, 03:20:40 am
I've reseated one of the HF connections to the driver on one of mine.  Definitely not Monster Cable in there.  But yeah, they might not have been really tight when the box was made.  Kind of like cleaning and reseating the ribbon cables on MixWizes, and older QSC and Mackie amps.  I should probably open mine and make sure the connections are tight.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on December 30, 2017, 12:05:08 pm
Sorry to hear Debbie.

Mine are still running strong :)

My 7 year warranty is up now I think.  I was an early adopter.  I will keep an eye out for cut-outs in either driver though and check the ribbon connectors if that happens.

FYIW:  There are products out there specifically designed to maintain contact in connectors and prevent oxidation (we use them at work in the lab for our automotive testing products).  Additionally, if the ribbon connectors are not locking connectors (to prevent them from being mechanically vibrated off), then there are electronic board epoxies that are used specifically to keep parts on board under severe vibration that you can buy to prevent this (which we also use on our products).

Since my DSR's are now out of warranty (at least it gave me piece of mind for 7 years), I may just open them up and do this as a preventative measure since I have heard of a few cases of this happening to people who own the venerable DSR112 :)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on December 30, 2017, 12:07:41 pm
OMG, Bob for sure isn't buying any now.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 30, 2017, 12:21:14 pm
I did open it up to take a look. Everything looks OK to me ( with my limited knowledge). I reseated what I could see but it made no difference. They cut those wires pretty short - very little room to do anything in there.
After all the hassles I had a couple of years ago with my SRX series - subs, and tops (at a lot more money don't forget) - I won't complain too much as these DSR's have already served me very well indeed.
The love affair isn't over yet - we just have to overcome a bit of a hurdle in the relationship!

JBL does get the extra point this time though for bailing me out last night .....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Philip Rasmus on December 31, 2017, 12:37:04 am
I did open it up to take a look. Everything looks OK to me ( with my limited knowledge). I reseated what I could see but it made no difference. They cut those wires pretty short - very little room to do anything in there.
After all the hassles I had a couple of years ago with my SRX series - subs, and tops (at a lot more money don't forget) - I won't complain too much as these DSR's have already served me very well indeed.
The love affair isn't over yet - we just have to overcome a bit of a hurdle in the relationship!

JBL does get the extra point this time though for bailing me out last night .....
Did you put an ohm meter across the woofer while you had it open?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kemper Watson on December 31, 2017, 09:14:13 am
Did you put an ohm meter across the woofer while you had it open?

My question as well..

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 31, 2017, 12:08:22 pm
Did you put an ohm meter across the woofer while you had it open?
BUT, with 1 terminal disconnected.

If you leave the woofer hooked up, the meter will "see" the output of the amp-as well as the speaker. So you MUST separate them.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: frank kayser on December 31, 2017, 01:15:53 pm
Maybe it's like an old carbureted Porsche - once and a while you have to put your foot in it and open 'em up to blow out the carbon!


I know, not helpful.  ;) ::)


frank
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 01, 2018, 05:24:53 pm
Did you put an ohm meter across the woofer while you had it open?

Nope - I really don't know enough about the insides of powered speakers so I'm just goinig to leave it to the professional.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on January 02, 2018, 11:38:15 am
Nope - I really don't know enough about the insides of powered speakers so I'm just goinig to leave it to the professional.

Better late than never, but a faulty woofer will often show open or short-circuit when metered.
You can also push gently on the centre of the cone (or just around the dustcap, keeping pressure even) to see if there are any scrapes. It should move smoothly.

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 08, 2018, 05:49:11 pm
I just got a call from the shop.
He told me he checked the woofer first and it was fine ( which I figured). Then he pushed all the switches in and out and moved the mic/line switch back and forth and all of a sudden on it came. He sprayed with some de-oxidizer and we are all good.
So, I'm really happy it wasn't something major but I wish I had moved the switches -I'd have found the problem right away. Never even thought of it. The mic/line switch has been in the same position since I purchased the speakers but it just goes to show that sometimes it is a good idea to move them back and forth....happy ending.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stephen Kirby on January 08, 2018, 05:56:31 pm
I'll have to add that to the PM checklist.  Thanks Debbie, good to know.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 08, 2018, 06:24:43 pm
I just got a call from the shop.
He told me he checked the woofer first and it was fine ( which I figured). Then he pushed all the switches in and out and moved the mic/line switch back and forth and all of a sudden on it came. He sprayed with some de-oxidizer and we are all good.
So, I'm really happy it wasn't something major but I wish I had moved the switches -I'd have found the problem right away. Never even thought of it. The mic/line switch has been in the same position since I purchased the speakers but it just goes to show that sometimes it is a good idea to move them back and forth....happy ending.

"I just love a happy ending."
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Winners on January 08, 2018, 06:35:18 pm
"I just love a happy ending."

Ha. Don't we all :)

Glad it worked out Debbie.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Pluke on January 08, 2018, 07:20:08 pm

Then he pushed all the switches in and out and moved the mic/line switch back and forth and all of a sudden on it came. He sprayed with some de-oxidizer and we are all good.

Odd that only the woofer was impacted.  But, good info to file away for the future.

Dave
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 08, 2018, 07:40:06 pm
Odd that only the woofer was impacted.  But, good info to file away for the future.

Dave

I agree - I didn't think to ask that on the call but I will when I pick it up because it seems strange to me too. Why was the horn functioning perfectly well?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Conlon on January 08, 2018, 07:46:02 pm
I agree - I didn't think to ask that on the call but I will when I pick it up because it seems strange to me too. Why was the horn functioning perfectly well?
Good things to know as i am buying a pair in march. 7 years of warranty on a powered speaker is saying a lot.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 08, 2018, 07:47:27 pm
BTW - The repair guy had researched the cost of a replacement woofer - till he got mine on the bench and knew what the problem was - and COST is $400 - WOW !
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 08, 2018, 08:28:07 pm
I just got a call from the shop.
He told me he checked the woofer first and it was fine ( which I figured). Then he pushed all the switches in and out and moved the mic/line switch back and forth and all of a sudden on it came. He sprayed with some de-oxidizer and we are all good.
So, I'm really happy it wasn't something major but I wish I had moved the switches -I'd have found the problem right away. Never even thought of it. The mic/line switch has been in the same position since I purchased the speakers but it just goes to show that sometimes it is a good idea to move them back and forth....happy ending.
Dirty contacts (switches/pots etc) are a constant problem.

They can cause everything from sound cutting out, to weird sounds, to distortion.

It is standard practice called "reseating the card", which is simply pulling a card out and replacing it.

When the contacts "wipe" they often clean themselves.

Contacts need to be "worked" from time to time to avoid the corrosion.


That is one reason Mcintosch uses reed switches (sealed), to keep them lasting forever.  But that comes at a price $
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rob Spence on January 08, 2018, 09:13:38 pm
I agree - I didn't think to ask that on the call but I will when I pick it up because it seems strange to me too. Why was the horn functioning perfectly well?

Likely multiple sets of contacts on the switch. Some affect the HF and some the LF.



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Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on January 08, 2018, 09:20:03 pm
I'll have to add that to the PM checklist.  Thanks Debbie, good to know.
Me as well.

Thanks for the info Debbie.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Garris on January 09, 2018, 01:56:49 am
Dirty contacts (switches/pots etc) are a constant problem.

They can cause everything from sound cutting out, to weird sounds, to distortion.

It is standard practice called "reseating the card", which is simply pulling a card out and replacing it.

When the contacts "wipe" they often clean themselves.

Contacts need to be "worked" from time to time to avoid the corrosion.


That is one reason Mcintosch uses reed switches (sealed), to keep them lasting forever.  But that comes at a price $

Can anyone recommend a good contact cleaner for this?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2018, 07:39:58 am
Can anyone recommend a good contact cleaner for this?
TV tuner cleaner is a general cheap fix that often works-except on pots-it dries them out.

The good stuff.  http://caig.com/   deoxit
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 09, 2018, 12:23:24 pm
Likely multiple sets of contacts on the switch. Some affect the HF and some the LF.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That would explain it - thanks Rob.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 09, 2018, 12:29:49 pm
Can anyone recommend a good contact cleaner for this?

Other than to flush out lubricants and dielectric grease, shooting solvents through the front of a switch or potentiometer you generally only make a mess.

To clean the switch contacts you need access from the back or side of the switch, which means opening up the cabinet (and amp bucket on many models) to get to it,

I suspect more controls are damaged or have their service life shortened by misapplication of chemical cleaners than are "saved" with these chemicals.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 09, 2018, 12:41:08 pm
Other than to flush out lubricants and dielectric grease, shooting solvents through the front of a switch or potentiometer you generally only make a mess.

To clean the switch contacts you need access from the back or side of the switch, which means opening up the cabinet (and amp bucket on many models) to get to it,

I suspect more controls are damaged or have their service life shortened by misapplication of chemical cleaners than are "saved" with these chemicals.

The 'safest' thing to do in situations such as these might simply be to just move all switches and button on and off regularly not allowing them to remain in the same position for long periods of time. This is what the repair guy told me.
BTW... this guy has been repairing amps, speakers, mixers and keyboards for over 40 years and is the Yamaha, Allen Heath and many more brand authorized repair shop. He does all the repairs for Guitar Center in this area and probably every other music store round here. I have been using him for years for everything but JBL and have had excellent service from him. He is  also a computer and midi repair specialist and composes music - quite a guy ...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 09, 2018, 12:59:19 pm
The 'safest' thing to do in situations such as these might simply be to just move all switches and button on and off regularly not allowing them to remain in the same position for long periods of time. This is what the repair guy told me.
BTW... this guy has been repairing amps, speakers, mixers and keyboards for over 40 years and is the Yamaha, Allen Heath and many more brand authorized repair shop. He does all the repairs for Guitar Center in this area and probably every other music store round here. I have been using him for years for everything but JBL and have had excellent service from him. He is  also a computer and midi repair specialist and composes music - quite a guy ...

Yep, exercising "wiping" contacts is how they get cleaned in normal use.  No move, no clean.

My comment was aimed at Steve G because while he's partly correct, without specifying a manner of application all one does is make a mess and the "treatment" will need to be repeated frequently.  Your technician is correct.

One of my IATSE sisters is an A1 at our PAC and she HATES telco-style patch bays because of issues with the normalizing contacts being intermittent.  No surprise, many of the jacks either don't get used or get used with the plugs remaining in the jack for long periods of time.  The city replaced the patch bays a couple of years ago and they work as they should, but she still doesn't like them or fully appreciate the flexibility in signal routing they provide.  At any rate, her issue is ultimately the lack of contact cleaning and maintenance, not the product itself.  As none of the stage hands are instructed by City policy to clean the jacks (nor the City provide the tools and chemicals), these replacement patch bays will fail, too.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 09, 2018, 01:04:11 pm
Yep, exercising "wiping" contacts is how they get cleaned in normal use.  No move, no clean.

My comment was aimed at Steve G because while he's partly correct, without specifying a manner of application all one does is make a mess and the "treatment" will need to be repeated frequently.  Your technician is correct.

One of my IATSE sisters is an A1 at our PAC and she HATES telco-style patch bays because of issues with the normalizing contacts being intermittent.  No surprise, many of the jacks either don't get used or get used with the plugs remaining in the jack for long periods of time.  The city replaced the patch bays a couple of years ago and they work as they should, but she still doesn't like them or fully appreciate the flexibility in signal routing they provide.  At any rate, her issue is ultimately the lack of contact cleaning and maintenance, not the product itself.  As none of the stage hands are instructed by City policy to clean the jacks (nor the City provide the tools and chemicals), these replacement patch bays will fail, too.

Out of respect, I should have also referred to my 'repair man' as a technician - he deserves that. My bad.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Garris on January 09, 2018, 02:57:18 pm
Yep, exercising "wiping" contacts is how they get cleaned in normal use.  No move, no clean.

My comment was aimed at Steve G because while he's partly correct, without specifying a manner of application all one does is make a mess and the "treatment" will need to be repeated frequently.  Your technician is correct.

One of my IATSE sisters is an A1 at our PAC and she HATES telco-style patch bays because of issues with the normalizing contacts being intermittent.  No surprise, many of the jacks either don't get used or get used with the plugs remaining in the jack for long periods of time.  The city replaced the patch bays a couple of years ago and they work as they should, but she still doesn't like them or fully appreciate the flexibility in signal routing they provide.  At any rate, her issue is ultimately the lack of contact cleaning and maintenance, not the product itself.  As none of the stage hands are instructed by City policy to clean the jacks (nor the City provide the tools and chemicals), these replacement patch bays will fail, too.

Twisting the knobs has always been my first approach, so I suppose I'll keep doing just that. Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 09, 2018, 03:44:29 pm
Twisting the knobs has always been my first approach, so I suppose I'll keep doing just that. Thanks for the info!

I think if the speaker had gone off completely, it might have occurred to me at some point to  push, turn - generally mess with stuff  but the fact that the horn was still working threw me and I was convinced it would be an internal problem.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on January 09, 2018, 08:12:26 pm
I think if the speaker had gone off completely, it might have occurred to me at some point to  push, turn - generally mess with stuff  but the fact that the horn was still working threw me and I was convinced it would be an internal problem.

I looked into buying a set of the 12s and still may. When thinking of the switches in the back I wonder which switch would cause a woofer to stop working.  If a switch had the function of turning off/on the woofer I could see it. But a dirty switch would , I would think, only effect what the switch would normally do. No lowcut on the woofer in sub mode as an example. I'm not saying its not possible but it just seems odd. Did the repair person say which switch was the problem?

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 09, 2018, 08:28:39 pm
I looked into buying a set of the 12s and still may. When thinking of the switches in the back I wonder which switch would cause a woofer to stop working.  If a switch had the function of turning off/on the woofer I could see it. But a dirty switch would , I would think, only effect what the switch would normally do. No lowcut on the woofer in sub mode as an example. I'm not saying its not possible but it just seems odd. Did the repair person say which switch was the problem?

Douglas R. Allen

Yes - the mic/line switch - which is actually a button. Chris picked it up today and didn't ask any questions so I might call him tomorrow just to be sure.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on January 09, 2018, 08:48:45 pm
Yes - the mic/line switch - which is actually a button. Chris picked it up today and didn't ask any questions so I might call him tomorrow just to be sure.

That is of course on the input before the crossover.... Any problem there would , one would think,  show up on both the horn and woofer.  Let me know what you find on this and how the speaker works in the future.  Regardless glad your speaker is working now and thanks for the reply. 
Kindest Regards;
Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 09, 2018, 09:34:39 pm
That is of course on the input before the crossover.... Any problem there would , one would think,  show up on both the horn and woofer.  Let me know what you find on this and how the speaker works in the future.  Regardless glad your speaker is working now and thanks for the reply. 
Kindest Regards;
Douglas R. Allen

This presumes the switch passes audio rather than triggering DSP changes via contact closures.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: James Paul on January 10, 2018, 01:02:55 am
The mic/line switch engages an analog audio pad, pre-all other processes.
I would not necessarily lose any sleep with the diagnosed box existing in inventory, but would be a bit wary of deploying suspect speaker on any mission critical duties based on the described diagnosis. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on January 11, 2018, 01:30:53 pm
I spoke to Chris (technician) today about the concern regarding the switch and why the horn would still functioning. He did admit he was a bit confused by this too but said he checked out everything else and couldn't find any other issues.
He suggested something about voltage ( above my pay grade) and that the switch was allowing a small amount of voltage through which could affect it in this way.  The only thing I can do would be to test it out.
I have tested it at home at low volumes and it appears to be fine. I'll take the DSR's to the next show and keep an SRX812 in the van just in case.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on January 11, 2018, 07:03:14 pm
I spoke to Chris (technician) today about the concern regarding the switch and why the horn would still functioning. He did admit he was a bit confused by this too but said he checked out everything else and couldn't find any other issues.
He suggested something about voltage ( above my pay grade) and that the switch was allowing a small amount of voltage through which could affect it in this way.  The only thing I can do would be to test it out.
I have tested it at home at low volumes and it appears to be fine. I'll take the DSR's to the next show and keep an SRX812 in the van just in case.

Thank you for the report and let us know how it works after awhile in the wild!

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 11, 2018, 01:36:34 am
Not happy.... 2 shows this weekend. Friday evening we used DSR's - sounded great.
This evening bar gig: set everything up and ran some music through FOH- same DSR speaker as last time not right but different problem- very low output. Did some troubleshooting but still low sound. Turned up attenuater to compensate and sounded OK.
Band ready for sound check so I turn up front and oh boy - now I have a bucket of gravel!! What the ???????
This time I was too far from home to go get a spare but fortunately the drummer was quite close. He went and got a little 10" eon. I brought a DXR8 for the guitarist to use as a monitor and switched it to the front and gave the guitarist the eon. ( looked quite funny)

So I'll be taking the DSR back into the shop on Monday.....mic/line switch my ass!!!

However.... I couldn't believe how good the little DXR8 sounded out front - wow!
Had compliments on the sound -LOL.

However....Upset - very upset!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 11, 2018, 10:36:03 am
Not happy.... 2 shows this weekend. Friday evening we used DSR's - sounded great.
This evening bar gig: set everything up and ran some music through FOH- same DSR speaker as last time not right but different problem- very low output. Did some troubleshooting but still low sound. Turned up attenuater to compensate and sounded OK.
Band ready for sound check so I turn up front and oh boy - now I have a bucket of gravel!! What the ???????
This time I was too far from home to go get a spare but fortunately the drummer was quite close. He went and got a little 10" eon. I brought a DXR8 for the guitarist to use as a monitor and switched it to the front and gave the guitarist the eon. ( looked quite funny)

So I'll be taking the DSR back into the shop on Monday.....mic/line switch my ass!!!

However.... I couldn't believe how good the little DXR8 sounded out front - wow!
Had compliments on the sound -LOL.

However....Upset - very upset!
That sounds awful! 

Be a squeaky wheel.  Make sure they fix it or replace it!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 11, 2018, 11:53:30 am
You know - I have never worried about having to take a spare speaker with me to shows.  I take 2 mixers, spare cables etc.
When we use wedges, I always have the option to grab one of those if necessary but now my 2 main bands are iem (apart from the one guitar player), can't do that anymore.
Last night's band uses the one wedge but I couldn't just take that - the player has no iems and he sings too.
So now it's got me thinking I should throw one of my PRX712's in the van every show - just to be safe.

Talk about losing confidence in my speakers.

I had issues with my SRX815. my SRX812 and now this.

I never had any problems before this and in my career I only ever had one speaker casualty many many years ago - an old Altec Lansing 15" sub purchased used that I pushed a little too hard one time.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: scottstephens on February 11, 2018, 12:23:23 pm
Debbie,

Trouble with 2 JBL's and now a Yammy!!!??? Bummer!! Those are reliable pieces of gear.

  My first thoughts is:  Is it a moisture issue? Is all your gear stored together? Any signs of corrosion or rust on anything? Are they in covers that are damp on the inside? 
  Second thought:  Are the speakers being stored laying down on their backs with the weight of the speaker on the pots? This could cause the connections inside to flex and become loose.

Good Luck. Nothing like spending money before we make it.

Scott
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 11, 2018, 12:57:25 pm
Debbie,

Trouble with 2 JBL's and now a Yammy!!!??? Bummer!! Those are reliable pieces of gear.

  My first thoughts is:  Is it a moisture issue? Is all your gear stored together? Any signs of corrosion or rust on anything? Are they in covers that are damp on the inside? 
  Second thought:  Are the speakers being stored laying down on their backs with the weight of the speaker on the pots? This could cause the connections inside to flex and become loose.

Good Luck. Nothing like spending money before we make it.

Scott

I am crazy careful with my gear. 
No moisture, everything stored in the garage attached to the house, heavily insulated  so temperatures stay reasonable. Everything stored upright and only moved around by us. If anything even gets close to getting wet, it sits in my garage with the window AC unit on for days just to be safe. Rarely does any of my gear see any moisture. The DSR's and the SRX812's have never been wet.

The SRX815 had the XLR release tab break so I couldn't remove the cable from it - had to go in and be taken apart.
The SRX812 had a piece of plastic come loose from the driver and rattle around inside - this has happened to others on the forum too with SRX and PRX series speakers. It didn't damage anything but caused a weird noise when it bounced around with the speaker on. I found it myself and removed it.
Now the DSR112 which obviously has an amp issue.... so there is no common denominator other than my luck...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Garris on February 11, 2018, 01:48:31 pm
I am crazy careful with my gear. 
No moisture, everything stored in the garage attached to the house, heavily insulated  so temperatures stay reasonable. Everything stored upright and only moved around by us. If anything even gets close to getting wet, it sits in my garage with the window AC unit on for days just to be safe. Rarely does any of my gear see any moisture. The DSR's and the SRX812's have never been wet.

The SRX815 had the XLR release tab break so I couldn't remove the cable from it - had to go in and be taken apart.
The SRX812 had a piece of plastic come loose from the driver and rattle around inside - this has happened to others on the forum too with SRX and PRX series speakers. It didn't damage anything but caused a weird noise when it bounced around with the speaker on. I found it myself and removed it.
Now the DSR112 which obviously has an amp issue.... so there is no common denominator other than my luck...

Very sorry to hear this. My DSR's PRX and SRX powered boxes have all worked flawlessly so far. I did receive an SRX box DOA, but it was a quick exchange. I'm really glad Yamaha has the 7 year warranty! Good luck and keep us advised.

Is the box making garbage noise now that you have it home?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 11, 2018, 03:10:56 pm
Very sorry to hear this. My DSR's PRX and SRX powered boxes have all worked flawlessly so far. I did receive an SRX box DOA, but it was a quick exchange. I'm really glad Yamaha has the 7 year warranty! Good luck and keep us advised.

Is the box making garbage noise now that you have it home?

I haven't tried it because regardless, there is a problem.
To have the issue a few weeks ago regarding no driver - just horn having no fix other than moving the mic/line switch, then getting to the show last night (after only 1 use) and only getting very low output to start and THEN to change to this horrible crackling sound tells me it needs fixing. I could try it but it wouldn't matter whether it was working right or not - I am still taking it in and this time I'll be insisting on the guy putting more time into the fix than spraying some de-oxit on a switch.
I'm wondering if I should involve Yamaha.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 12, 2018, 01:17:59 pm
I haven't tried it because regardless, there is a problem.
To have the issue a few weeks ago regarding no driver - just horn having no fix other than moving the mic/line switch, then getting to the show last night (after only 1 use) and only getting very low output to start and THEN to change to this horrible crackling sound tells me it needs fixing. I could try it but it wouldn't matter whether it was working right or not - I am still taking it in and this time I'll be insisting on the guy putting more time into the fix than spraying some de-oxit on a switch.
I'm wondering if I should involve Yamaha.

I had something similar happen at two different gigs earlier this year. It appeared to be power issues. Speaker was low power output and distorted. Worked fine back at home, on generator power, at other gigs, etc... Second speaker worked fine in both instances. I'm not positive it was the same speaker each time but the electrical circuit was overloaded in both cases for sure.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jay Marr on February 12, 2018, 02:47:45 pm
I haven't tried it because regardless, there is a problem.
To have the issue a few weeks ago regarding no driver - just horn having no fix other than moving the mic/line switch, then getting to the show last night (after only 1 use) and only getting very low output to start and THEN to change to this horrible crackling sound tells me it needs fixing. I could try it but it wouldn't matter whether it was working right or not - I am still taking it in and this time I'll be insisting on the guy putting more time into the fix than spraying some de-oxit on a switch.
I'm wondering if I should involve Yamaha.

Subscribed!
Want to hear what the diagnosis is.

My band now owns 4 DSRs.  As I mentioned in other threads, my bass players DSRs (which take zero abuse) both died within a few weeks of each other.  No explanation from repair shop (I'm sure part of the issue is my bass player doesn't ask the right questions).

I hate hearing stories like this.  I've had similar issues and been too far from home to get a suitable replacement.  You make due, and get through the gig, but it always makes me question my gear choices.

I'm going to get crap for saying this - but this is one of the reasons why I like passive speakers.
Yes, any piece of get can break at any time.  But I like the ability to have components that are modular.

I LOVE the DSRs though. I compared them to my passive JBL SRX812s and liked the Yammy's better.

Keep us posted Debbie.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 12, 2018, 04:43:11 pm
Dropped it off again today. I told him this time maybe he should get a replacement amp module......he agreed that would probably be best..
However, he had already called my house phone by the time I got back home.
His message said that he had called Yamaha and they told him that he needed to concentrate on the connections underneath where the mic/line switch is located - to get into that board and remove and clean all connections. He said he did this and tested and it sounds fine. I have never had it open so not sure what he means by that. He also said that this is something that is easy to do myself - well yeah....
So..... do I try it again but make sure to take an extra speaker with me every show now???  Suppose I have no choice -What PIA!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: frank kayser on February 12, 2018, 05:15:07 pm
Dropped it off again today. I told him this time maybe he should get a replacement amp module......he agreed that would probably be best..
However, he had already called my house phone by the time I got back home.
His message said that he had called Yamaha and they told him that he needed to concentrate on the connections underneath where the mic/line switch is located - to get into that board and remove and clean all connections. He said he did this and tested and it sounds fine. I have never had it open so not sure what he means by that. He also said that this is something that is easy to do myself - well yeah....
So..... do I try it again but make sure to take an extra speaker with me every show now???  Suppose I have no choice -What PIA!!


Hi Debbie,
Your experience from the first failure is just wrong - yeah, it happens, but... I went through the same thing with an Apple Powerbook - motherboard had a problem with the power control unit, and would discharge the battery beyond where it could be recovered.  Got a bunch of new batteries before I started talking lemon.


You need to take the amp board down to the range, and put a .44 through it.  Take it back and tell them the speaker is shot. :o


I actually had a friend who did exactly that with a Maxtor hard drive that was about to go back for the third time. :(   I'm not entirely sure they honored the warranty, however.  At that point, he never wanted to see a Maxtor again.


Like golf, it takes such a long time to build confidence, and just a moment to strip it all away.


Wish you well,
frank
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: William Schnake on February 12, 2018, 07:07:09 pm
Dropped it off again today. I told him this time maybe he should get a replacement amp module......he agreed that would probably be best..
However, he had already called my house phone by the time I got back home.
His message said that he had called Yamaha and they told him that he needed to concentrate on the connections underneath where the mic/line switch is located - to get into that board and remove and clean all connections. He said he did this and tested and it sounds fine. I have never had it open so not sure what he means by that. He also said that this is something that is easy to do myself - well yeah....
So..... do I try it again but make sure to take an extra speaker with me every show now???  Suppose I have no choice -What PIA!!
Debbie, as I see it you have two choices:

1) Get the speaker back, and carry a spare with you to all of your gigs

2) Give me the techs phone number and by the time I am done on the phone with him he will beg you to replace the amp module

I have a very low tolerance for equipment that has 'been repaired' and then has the same problem again within a mater of weeks.  It has happened once to me and the repair person was back at my shop the next morning making it right for free.  I have never had any other problem that was repaired by this person ever not work for years.  Let me know if you want me to make your repair guy cry and curl up in a corner in the fetal position sucking his thumb.

Bill
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ron Hebbard on February 12, 2018, 08:19:14 pm
Debbie, as I see it you have two choices:

1) Get the speaker back, and carry a spare with you to all of your gigs

2) Give me the techs phone number and by the time I am done on the phone with him he will beg you to replace the amp module

I have a very low tolerance for equipment that has 'been repaired' and then has the same problem again within a mater of weeks.  It has happened once to me and the repair person was back at my shop the next morning making it right for free.  I have never had any other problem that was repaired by this person ever not work for years.  Let me know if you want me to make your repair guy cry and curl up in a corner in the fetal position sucking his thumb.

Bill
  Bill; You sound like Gene Pink when he answers his phone and doesn't recognize your area code.  Possibly it's a Texas thing? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 12, 2018, 08:50:54 pm
Debbie, as I see it you have two choices:

1) Get the speaker back, and carry a spare with you to all of your gigs

2) Give me the techs phone number and by the time I am done on the phone with him he will beg you to replace the amp module

I have a very low tolerance for equipment that has 'been repaired' and then has the same problem again within a mater of weeks.  It has happened once to me and the repair person was back at my shop the next morning making it right for free.  I have never had any other problem that was repaired by this person ever not work for years.  Let me know if you want me to make your repair guy cry and curl up in a corner in the fetal position sucking his thumb.

Bill

Ha ha - thanks Bill, I'll keep that in mind if this starts to get ugly!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: William Schnake on February 12, 2018, 09:16:45 pm
Possibly it's a Texas thing? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Except I am from Illinois.

Bill
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 13, 2018, 12:40:58 pm
Chris picked up the speaker today. He asked the tech again exactly what Yamaha had told him and what he did.
He said - and I quote, " So... it's not just the ribbon cable that goes between the preamp board and the amp, but the preamp has 2 boards and there is a box connector with pins that go up into the top board. You gotta pull that board off and clean those as well. When I pushed the mic/line switch back and forth last time it was probably just enough movement and friction to get  it to work ".
Chris asked for the paperwork from both fixes but the tech said neither jobs were claimed under the warranty so no paperwork was generated and he did them as a favor.
Chris was very polite as he always is but said we are not too happy and if it happens again, we will insist on a new amp and will get Yamaha involved.

So there you have it. Should I try again or should I call Yamaha anyway? ( Or should I get Bill involved ? - LOL)


One more thing - He also said it is 'kinda a design fault'.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 13, 2018, 01:42:38 pm

So there you have it. Should I try again or should I call Yamaha anyway? ( Or should I get Bill involved ? - LOL)


I'd consider both.
Having no paperwork is a red flag for me.

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 13, 2018, 02:23:05 pm
I just got off the phone with a Yamaha customer service rep. He is escalating my case to someone who is better equipped to speak with me. I should get a call back within 24 hours.
Does anyone have any contacts at Yamaha?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bob Charest on February 13, 2018, 06:12:27 pm
Good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on February 13, 2018, 08:24:30 pm
... Chris asked for the paperwork from both fixes but the tech said neither jobs were claimed under the warranty so no paperwork was generated and he did them as a favor... One more thing - He also said it is 'kinda a design fault'.

This smells like lutefisk!  Without paperwork, a warranty claim cannot be escalated. How does he get paid by Yamaha for warranty repairs, or is he not an authorized repair site?

-Dennis
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bob Leonard on February 13, 2018, 09:38:24 pm
Debbie,
I have never been, and never will be a fan of powered cabinets. But that's just me and the only reason I bring this up is to emphasize the point made by Tim regarding cleaning solvents.

So my problem of late was with my old faithful QSC 4050's. It had been some time since I moved the sensitivity rheostats (old school for potentiometer) on those amps. Lost most of the sound to my LH subs during a gig last week, so seeing signal everywhere but at the amp I twisted the shit out of the pots, and like magic, sound for the rest of the night. I'll pull those amps out of the rack this weekend and flush/actuate the pots using Deoxit and they'll be good to go for another 10 years. I would do the same for any Fender amplifier I rebuild if needed and the customer didn't want the historic pot replaced. But Tim is 100% correct. You can't clean pots and jacks from the outside in, and using a cleaner incorrectly will do more harm than good.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 13, 2018, 09:50:04 pm
This smells like lutefisk!  Without paperwork, a warranty claim cannot be escalated. How does he get paid by Yamaha for warranty repairs, or is he not an authorized repair site?

-Dennis

It's not a warranty claim that is being escalated Dennis - it is my complaint/concern.
I agree this is weird and why I called yamaha about it. It seems the tech didn't get paid at a all......
The repair center is authorized Yamaha and many many other brands also. I have used him a few times for all kinds of different problems and brands and I have been happy with his work in the past.
If what he did for me IS the textbook fix, then I have no argument I suppose BUT I need to know from Yamaha and I wanted it down on record also as no work order was generated or recorded.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on February 14, 2018, 09:18:21 am
It's not a warranty claim that is being escalated...

Sorry, I guess I knew that.   :-[

-D
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 14, 2018, 01:14:59 pm
It's not a warranty claim that is being escalated Dennis - it is my complaint/concern.
I agree this is weird and why I called yamaha about it. It seems the tech didn't get paid at a all......
The repair center is authorized Yamaha and many many other brands also. I have used him a few times for all kinds of different problems and brands and I have been happy with his work in the past.
If what he did for me IS the textbook fix, then I have no argument I suppose BUT I need to know from Yamaha and I wanted it down on record also as no work order was generated or recorded.

Textbook fix or not, you want the evidence trail showing your speaker was in for service to continue the warranty on that service/repair.

My experiences with Yamaha's factory folks in Buena Park have been good; our products were consoles and not speakers, though.

I'd be surprised if this is not resolved to your satisfaction, Debbie.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: William Schnake on February 14, 2018, 04:35:43 pm
Debbie, is it time to tag me in yet?!?!?!?

Bill
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on February 14, 2018, 05:00:12 pm
Textbook fix or not, you want the evidence trail showing your speaker was in for service to continue the warranty on that service/repair.


I have never had a warranty repair roll the term forward to an additional full warranty term on that particular part.  Always just to the original term duration.  I always believed that it should roll forward though.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 14, 2018, 08:53:26 pm
Yamaha never called me today.

 :(
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 15, 2018, 03:54:10 am
Yamaha never called me today.

 :(

Unleash Bill.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 15, 2018, 11:21:46 am
Unleash Bill.

Might end up doing that!!..

Just called again and spoke to the same guy I did on tuesday. - Keith. He told me I need to speak with 'Robert' who will be in the building in 15 minutes. .... and "Sorry no-one got back to you."

Not only did I call on tuesday but I also sent a detailed message to customer service at Yamaha  and did not receive any response from that either.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 15, 2018, 12:14:55 pm
Unleash the HOUNDS!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: John Fruits on February 15, 2018, 02:10:36 pm
While waiting for Robert to get in touch, consider your options, you could always pull out the big guns.  Play the "is it because I'm a girl that you don't seem to be taking me seriously card". (It's always fun when you say something that makes them splutter and deny.)  You could also explain that you have a wide circle of mentors who have decades of live sound experience to advise you.
Best of luck.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 15, 2018, 02:25:05 pm
While waiting for Robert to get in touch, consider your options, you could always pull out the big guns.  Play the "is it because I'm a girl that you don't seem to be taking me seriously card". (It's always fun when you say something that makes them splutter and deny.)  You could also explain that you have a wide circle of mentors who have decades of live sound experience to advise you.
Best of luck.

Good thinking John and not at all beyond my moral standing - LOL!!
All joking aside - this 'attitude' has caused me many issues over the years and I have always had to fight a little harder than the boys to get some things resolved.

Earlier today I sent a message a a gentleman who works for Yamaha - a forum member kindly gave me his information. I wrote to him asking for his help and advice - so we will see if this results in some customer satisfaction .....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 15, 2018, 03:41:31 pm
All of us DSR users (and the rest) are hoping for the best. :)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jeff Dine on February 16, 2018, 06:55:58 am
Yamaha never called me today.

 :(
I think that if you share this thread with them and point out that it's had over 4000 views you would get the attention you deserve.   Yamaha,  there are many live sound professionals with their eyes on you here!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 16, 2018, 07:52:36 am
Hi Debbie,

I have had a strange "buzz" in one of my DSR's for some time ... only at a certain frequency, and only at high volume.  It was very infrequent, and I was going to just wait until the warranty was out and find out what was rattling and fix it.

The end of last year, I decided to try to get it into warranty and have them do it .... even though the closest warranty repair center for me is about 1 hour drive each way.

After a couple of weeks in the shop ..... yep.  "Nothin wrong with the speaker".

Another 1 hour trip to the store, I bring in the other DSR for comparison, another 2 weeks ..... yep.  "Nothin wrong with the speaker".

Frustrated, I fall back to my original plan and take the speakers home.

A couple of weeks ago, I was plunking around on my guitar and found a 100% sure fire way to get it to buzz.  This was both a relief, and a concern to me, so .... back to the store (a different one this time).  I show the tech the problem with my phone and a cable hooked to the speaker.  2 weeks later I get "Nothing wrong with the internals of the speaker, adjusted the metal grill and the speaker is ready to pick up".

Last night I drove out again (this makes 4 one hour drives in both directions for me for a total of 8 hours on the road for this stupid issue) and bring my phone and cord to verify the problem is fixed..... NOPE.  Buzzes at exactly the same frequency and volume.

Fortunately, the techs (3 them all jumped in) all got on this immediately.  After 15 min, pressing around on the speaker, fiddling around with it in various ways, and then finally removing the speaker from the box and running the test again, it was determined that it was actually the woofer that was making the noise (not a rattle in the cabinet).  They ordered a new driver for me under warranty (which runs out next month!).

So the moral of my story is that it was a giant PITA to get this fixed.  I had thought it was something minor, but it wasn't.  It was worth my effort (if only barely) to get it fixed (I think).

It may be that the speaker would have continued to work (longer than I will anyway) without getting worse.  It was only an intermittent and infrequent buzz that wasn't really that loud (certainly not enough to be heard over the other speaker and subs at volume).  It could have become much worse though, and the root cause is the $400 woofer in the speaker.

In all honesty, if someone gave me the choice of paying $400 or driving a total of 10 hours and leaving work early on several occasions to get to the shop while a tech was present ... I may have well just replaced the silly thing on my own dime!

My situation is much different than yours Debbie.  I could have continued to use my speaker with no real issue.  The buzz was rare, only at very high volume, and only at a very specific frequency.

My problem with the experience was the lengths I had to go to in order to get the problem fixed.  I don't know that there was any other path for me really.  It was just a particularly difficult to reproduce major issue disguised as a cabinet rattle.

Once I spent the time to create a test that reproduced the problem 100% of the time, I FINALLY got things fixed.

I thought I would share my experience in this thread just in case anyone else has a seemingly harmless "cabinet rattle" they are living with.  Might want to get this looked at while still in warranty ;)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 16, 2018, 08:07:28 am


I thought I would share my experience in this thread just in case anyone else has a seemingly harmless "cabinet rattle" they are living with.  Might want to get this looked at while still in warranty ;)

Some things can be hard to trace down.

I had a case that a Church was complaining about distortion in the PA.

I made 2 trips there and did everything I could to try and make it act up.

I kept blaming something in the console overloading.

On the 3rd trip, I still could not find a problem.  A guy was walking across the stage and the the audio said "Hey Joe, do you have your guitar?"

I was told that during Joes performance last Sunday it was happening.

So just a vocal and acoustic guitar, and SURE ENOUGH, there was the distortion-pretty strong.

I had tested with a wide variety of music and swept tones.

But it was specific combinations of freq that would set up the distortion, not a single freq.

What I found was a small crack in the diaphragm of the HF driver.

Simple fix, but took A LOT of time and specific conditions to find it/narrow  it down.

It is gratifying when you find the problem, but can be a real pain in the meantime.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mal Brown on February 16, 2018, 11:31:23 am
Hi Debbie,

I have had a strange "buzz" in one of my DSR's for some time ... only at a certain frequency, and only at high volume.  It was very infrequent, and I was going to just wait until the warranty was out and find out what was rattling and fix it.

The end of last year, I decided to try to get it into warranty and have them do it .... even though the closest warranty repair center for me is about 1 hour drive each way.

After a couple of weeks in the shop ..... yep.  "Nothin wrong with the speaker".

Another 1 hour trip to the store, I bring in the other DSR for comparison, another 2 weeks ..... yep.  "Nothin wrong with the speaker".

Frustrated, I fall back to my original plan and take the speakers home.

A couple of weeks ago, I was plunking around on my guitar and found a 100% sure fire way to get it to buzz.  This was both a relief, and a concern to me, so .... back to the store (a different one this time).  I show the tech the problem with my phone and a cable hooked to the speaker.  2 weeks later I get "Nothing wrong with the internals of the speaker, adjusted the metal grill and the speaker is ready to pick up".

Last night I drove out again (this makes 4 one hour drives in both directions for me for a total of 8 hours on the road for this stupid issue) and bring my phone and cord to verify the problem is fixed..... NOPE.  Buzzes at exactly the same frequency and volume.

Fortunately, the techs (3 them all jumped in) all got on this immediately.  After 15 min, pressing around on the speaker, fiddling around with it in various ways, and then finally removing the speaker from the box and running the test again, it was determined that it was actually the woofer that was making the noise (not a rattle in the cabinet).  They ordered a new driver for me under warranty (which runs out next month!).

So the moral of my story is that it was a giant PITA to get this fixed.  I had thought it was something minor, but it wasn't.  It was worth my effort (if only barely) to get it fixed (I think).

It may be that the speaker would have continued to work (longer than I will anyway) without getting worse.  It was only an intermittent and infrequent buzz that wasn't really that loud (certainly not enough to be heard over the other speaker and subs at volume).  It could have become much worse though, and the root cause is the $400 woofer in the speaker.

In all honesty, if someone gave me the choice of paying $400 or driving a total of 10 hours and leaving work early on several occasions to get to the shop while a tech was present ... I may have well just replaced the silly thing on my own dime!

My situation is much different than yours Debbie.  I could have continued to use my speaker with no real issue.  The buzz was rare, only at very high volume, and only at a very specific frequency.

My problem with the experience was the lengths I had to go to in order to get the problem fixed.  I don't know that there was any other path for me really.  It was just a particularly difficult to reproduce major issue disguised as a cabinet rattle.

Once I spent the time to create a test that reproduced the problem 100% of the time, I FINALLY got things fixed.

I thought I would share my experience in this thread just in case anyone else has a seemingly harmless "cabinet rattle" they are living with.  Might want to get this looked at while still in warranty ;)

I had almost exactly the same problem with a PRX 612m.  Except that the repair guys never actually owned up to it after my demo of the existing issue.  To quote some bad movie or another... JBL is dead to me...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on February 16, 2018, 12:12:50 pm
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but I've written before how responsive Yamaha Canada was to my DSR issues-very quick and efficient service. Having said that, I'm a dealer and would expect Yamaha to make things right quickly. I'm wondering if OP's "disappointment" is a result of less than superior service at the dealer level, rather than at the manufacturer level, and in defence of that, as Ivan stated, it is sometimes hard to nail these things down.
Still, you should have received the promised call-back from Yamaha USA. Good luck and be a squeaky (but professional) wheel.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 16, 2018, 12:13:28 pm
Robert called me back and I just got off the phone with him.
After telling him everything he said that it sounds like the problem is  with the repairer and his concern is why paperwork was not generated. I asked him if the call that the tech said he made to Yamaha would have been logged and he told me it would. I asked if he could confirm that call was made.  He is checking on that and will email me with what he finds.
He suggested going forward if I have any problems, to take the speaker to another shop or mail back to Yamaha.
I have no issues taking it to the next closest shop which is not much farther in the other direction BUT it is now 'working' so I will have to wait for it to fail again - assuming it will - before I can do that.
I am happy that I spoke with Yamaha because he took notes and now I have a record of the fail.
I asked him what would happen if I have problems for a 3rd time but get told that de-oxit is the fix. He said at that point Yamaha would step in and replace the speaker. THIS was what I wanted to hear and now I feel confident that I have the appropriate backing from the company.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 16, 2018, 12:17:19 pm
I hate to sound like a fanboi, but I've written before how responsive Yamaha Canada was to my DSR issues-very quick and efficient service. Having said that, I'm a dealer and would expect Yamaha to make things right quickly. I'm wondering if OP's "disappointment" is a result of less than superior service at the dealer level, rather than at the manufacturer level, and in defence of that, as Ivan stated, it is sometimes hard to nail these things down.
Still, you should have received the promised call-back from Yamaha USA. Good luck and be a squeaky (but professional) wheel.

I saw this post BJ after I posted my update.... yes it seems that the repairer is the main problem here - not Yamaha. Although getting a call back or an email response shouldn't have taken so long.
At the end of the day, I did get to voice my concerns to the right party so I feel a lot happier now.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 16, 2018, 12:18:21 pm
I feel blessed to have such wonderful support from you good folks - you keep me from going crazy sometimes!!!
Thank you!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 16, 2018, 05:59:48 pm
I feel blessed to have such wonderful support from you good folks - you keep me from going crazy sometimes!!!
Thank you!
But isn't being in the sound business the definition of crazy?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: frank kayser on February 16, 2018, 06:50:26 pm
I feel blessed to have such wonderful support from you good folks - you keep me from going crazy sometimes!!!
Thank you!


Crazed but functional?  I guess pit-bull Bill will have to wait.  Nice that he was there, though.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 16, 2018, 08:06:33 pm

Crazed but functional?  I guess pit-bull Bill will have to wait.  Nice that he was there, though.

Absolutely ..... I never received the email Robert promised me today so this isn't over yet....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mike Caldwell on February 16, 2018, 08:52:42 pm
Some things can be hard to trace down.

I had a case that a Church was complaining about distortion in the PA.

I made 2 trips there and did everything I could to try and make it act up.

I kept blaming something in the console overloading.

On the 3rd trip, I still could not find a problem.  A guy was walking across the stage and the the audio said "Hey Joe, do you have your guitar?"

I was told that during Joes performance last Sunday it was happening.

So just a vocal and acoustic guitar, and SURE ENOUGH, there was the distortion-pretty strong.

I had tested with a wide variety of music and swept tones.

But it was specific combinations of freq that would set up the distortion, not a single freq.

What I found was a small crack in the diaphragm of the HF driver.

Simple fix, but took A LOT of time and specific conditions to find it/narrow  it down.

It is gratifying when you find the problem, but can be a real pain in the meantime.

Had kind of a similar thing with with a four ten combo guitar amp. Guitar player said the amp sometimes had a buzzing/rattling distorted sound. Tone sweeps through the amp found nothing, each speaker tested good. He brings over a guitar starts playing after about 30 seconds I hear it plain as day.
Turns out it was a knot in the pine board of the amp that had dried up and cracked loose in the board and would vibrate with the right combination of frequencies and volume.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 16, 2018, 09:29:37 pm
Had kind of a similar thing with with a four ten combo guitar amp. Guitar player said the amp sometimes had a buzzing/rattling distorted sound. Tone sweeps through the amp found nothing, each speaker tested good. He brings over a guitar starts playing after about 30 seconds I hear it plain as day.
Turns out it was knot in the pine board of the amp had dried up and cracked loose in the board and would vibrate with the right combination of frequencies and volume.
It is amazing how very little things can cause a loud racket.  A very small air leak, a loose wheel, a screw not tightened all the way, a wire slightly touching the cone and so forth
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Aaron Maurer on February 16, 2018, 10:12:34 pm
So I will add to this thread and let you know I had a buzz that showed up from time to time on my one DSR112. This seem to happen in the venue which is a firehouse club and nowhere else. I though maybe radio interference and it was always stage left. So I marked the speaker as I get in this venue several times a year. Well I was in a few weeks back and it happened again it was the speaker that I marked. I had time and moved the cables from one speaker to the other to make sure it wasn’t the console or Snake causing the issue. It wasn’t either. I was able to make the noise occur in the trailer as it seemed to do it more in colder weather. Decided to take it to the service center and they looked up the DSR for this issue and the repair guy told me that Yamaha has a notice that a “transistor” has been known to cause this noise and they spec’d the parts that needed replaced. He ordered them and Yamaha has them on back order. I have two pair of DSR112’s so I am ok waiting. These boxes sound great and hope the issues we are seeing are minor. My speaker may have had a bad batch of parts they used not known to them?  My repair guy said the parts are like $10 if he purchased them somewhere else to fix the issue but he orders a second set in the event one of my other boxes start doing the same thing. Still in for repair and will post back. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Q_HT8vCm0

That said I still believe in the product and think they sound fantastic. Would I buy again absolutely! 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on February 17, 2018, 07:07:12 am
So I will add to this thread and let you know I had a buzz that showed up from time to time on my one DSR112. This seem to happen in the venue which is a firehouse club and nowhere else. I though maybe radio interference and it was always stage left. So I marked the speaker as I get in this venue several times a year. Well I was in a few weeks back and it happened again it was the speaker that I marked. I had time and moved the cables from one speaker to the other to make sure it wasn’t the console or Snake causing the issue. It wasn’t either. I was able to make the noise occur in the trailer as it seemed to do it more in colder weather. Decided to take it to the service center and they looked up the DSR for this issue and the repair guy told me that Yamaha has a notice that a “transistor” has been known to cause this noise and they spec’d the parts that needed replaced. He ordered them and Yamaha has them on back order. I have two pair of DSR112’s so I am ok waiting. These boxes sound great and hope the issues we are seeing are minor. My speaker may have had a bad batch of parts they used not known to them?  My repair guy said the parts are like $10 if he purchased them somewhere else to fix the issue but he orders a second set in the event one of my other boxes start doing the same thing. Still in for repair and will post back. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Q_HT8vCm0

That said I still believe in the product and think they sound fantastic. Would I buy again absolutely!

A good friend of mine has the DSR115's and one had the exact sound that is in the Youtube video. A transistor was replaced under warranty and he's had 0 problems after. I hope your fix is as simple and let us know how yours worked out.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 17, 2018, 11:40:44 am
Wow.  Cool noise.  Perhaps that is the built in pink noise generator version of the firmware ;)

Update:  Yesterday I received a call from my service tech letting me know that Yamaha told him the warranty on the DSR112 was only 5 years.  I had him send me an email and returned the email with a link to Yamaha's PDF showing that all DSR, DXR, and even DBR series speakers carry a 7 year warranty.

I would like to say that I would also purchase these speakers again and again.  Mine is a very minor issue really compared to others here (love the cricket helicopter sound in the video ;) ). 

Having said that, the service centers I am dealing with are really pissing me off.  It should not be my job to send links to YAMAHA warranty documents.  Considering the time and effort I have put into getting this little buzz fixed, at this point guys (and girls Debbie), I just really want the damn thing fixed with a "Thank You" added in for my effort in getting to the bottom of the problem.

Hopefully my email will be the LAST of this nonsense.  I guess my next call should be to Yamaha to handle this crap personally.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 17, 2018, 12:19:28 pm
When I spoke to Robert yesterday I invited him to read this thread.
I hope he does so.
Perhaps Yamaha should be checking into just how well the company is being represented by its service providers as these things do reflect on the company regardless of whether Yamaha is at fault or not or how unfair that may seem.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 17, 2018, 12:45:41 pm
When I spoke to Robert yesterday I invited him to read this thread.
I hope he does so.
Perhaps Yamaha should be checking into just how well the company is being represented by its service providers as these things do reflect on the company regardless of whether Yamaha is at fault or not or how unfair that may seem.
I agree.  They should take note.

Like some others here, I work in engineering where products are out in the wild being used (and abused) by real customers.  While it is impossible to engineer a product that is perfect, one of the most important things you can do is arm your support organizations with flow charts that help them resolve the problem for the customer (not necessarily fix the unit).  If someone takes a $900.00 speaker into the tech 3 different times, there is OBVEOUSLY something wrong with the unit.  Anyone willing to do such a thing is also highly likely someone you want telling the world how well your problem was handled ..... not how inept the service was.

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Aaron Maurer on February 17, 2018, 01:10:59 pm
I have so far been happy with the service guy I am using. He has called me several times to update me and he seems to have been in the Pro Audio side of repairs most of his life “Crown” until just recently.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mike Karseboom on February 21, 2018, 01:11:17 am
I think the "box connector" is a major source of problems if the pins get  oxidized or the connection is becomes somehow compromised.   See the old post below that seems to echo some of the issues in this thread.

I had both of my DSR112's fail last weekend when used as mains over srx718 subs for a band at an outdoor wedding.  They were being driven fairly hard for a party of 120 or so but crossed over at 100Hz and not clipping.  No direct sun but the temp was around 90F.

Both boxes shut themselves off during the last 1/2 hour, after about 3 hours of continuous use.  They did not seem overly hot and smelled OK but maybe it was thermal protection.  They came back to life after turning them off and on.  Unfortunately one of them continued to go off and after successively shorter periods of coming back to life, it would not stay on at all. 


The other one stayed on the rest of the gig.  But the next day it started crackling and distorting when being used as a monitor.  I had this same problem with the same box last year and sent it in for repair.  The repair notes were somewhat obtuse and referenced some plate being tightened.


Having a need  for these boxes for a festival starting tomorrow I  thought I would at do an internal inspection of the drivers and electronics.  The drivers looked and felt good and sounded OK when driven from a conventional amp. 


I could not see anything burned or loose in the plate amp but did note these feature ribbon cables between the input block and the main amp block.  Ribbon cables have been a source of problems for me in the past with an old Mackie 1604 mixer and with my DR260 processors.  And, sure enough, cleaning and re-seating the ribbon cables completely fixed the distorting box and brought the dead box back to life except no woofer.


Additional disassembly and  tinkering with the box with the non-functional woofer exposed a somewhat unusual rigid multi-pin pass-through connector between the 3 circuit boards in the input block.  After pulling this apart and putting it back together to re-seat / clean it, the woofer came back to life. Yeah!


Now both boxes seem to be working 100% again.  My conclusion is that the ribbon cable connections and rigid multi-pin connectors can exhibit bad connectivity after some time in use.  I suppose this is the result of the constant vibration they must endure. 


I drive the boxes hard  when used as mains and this may exacerbate the problem.  I don't drive them into clipping and don't feel like I abuse these speakers.  Rather, I am of the opinion that the design of the connectors is weak.  I have K12's, PRX615's, and PRX712's that have been driven just as hard for more years of use and none of them have failed in any way.


I love the sound of the DSR112 but when I add these 3 separate failures to my list of complaints about the physical packaging, the love affair is becoming a bit tarnished.  I don't think I will be buying any more of these.



Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on February 21, 2018, 08:06:43 am
I think the "box connector" is a major source of problems if the pins get  oxidized or the connection is becomes somehow compromised.   See the old post below that seems to echo some of the issues in this thread.


Would a coating of conductive grease resolve this issue by filling micro gaps and prevent oxidation?  I had a similar problem with pass-through pins on 2 Yorkville passive 0-xovers causing loss of high output based on cabinet vibrations  ( full range or setting directly on sub vs mid/hi separated).
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 21, 2018, 09:55:12 am
The old Peavey XR600/500/400 amps used to suffer from oxidisation of the pins.  Sometimes you could make them conduct again by disconnecting the speakers, turning everything up full and putting a signal through then putting it back to normal.

I have lost count of the number of amps friends have brought to me to have the connectors cut off and the cables soldered directly to the PCBs.


Steve.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 21, 2018, 11:26:02 am
Yesterday I called Yamaha again to check on the status of my case. I spoke to a different gentleman. All my notes are in the system and seem complete - which I wanted to make sure of.
He told me that Robert did contact the department dealing with retrieval of the telephone records relating to the call made by the tech to Yamaha and once they have been received, he will share with me.
I asked him where we go from here : I have a speaker that has had de-oxit sprayed as a repair yet a  different but presumably related fault occurred after 4 hours of use. Now I have more de-oxit sprayed as a fix for that fault ....
I explained I am fed up with 'band aid' fixes and have lost confidence at this point and I need Yamaha to step up and do the right thing.
He agreed and told me to wait to see what the result is of the telephone records but if Yamaha needs to send me a replacement  speaker, then that is what will happen.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 22, 2018, 04:50:56 am
Hi Debbie.

I got an email verifying my speaker is in fact under warranty for 7 years and that they will cover my repair.

Honestly, I still kin of expect it to be buzzing when I go in next time.  That is how little confidence I have that the tech can fix it.  I hope to be wrong. 

I sure hope you get things ironed out as well. 

All this aside, I still love my dsr’s.  I am just frustrated with the service from the repair center(s).

I am hoping I have no need to contact Yamaha directly
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 22, 2018, 11:57:25 am
Hey Scott... fingers crossed for you.
The 7 year warranty issue has not come up in my case and I have been very up front about how old my speakers are in each conversation I have had.
I too love my DSR's - but I do not need the extra stress at shows of not knowing if I can rely on my speakers... it takes the pleasure out of the job for me.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 22, 2018, 12:25:47 pm
I totally get it Debbie.

Mine are right at 7 years.  Sadly, I personally have had some kind of speaker problem about every 7 years.  This is my 3rd problem in 21 years. 

What fail rate do others have with FOH speakers with other brands?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mal Brown on February 22, 2018, 01:06:37 pm
Qsc - zero...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 22, 2018, 01:16:42 pm
I totally get it Debbie.

Mine are right at 7 years.  Sadly, I personally have had some kind of speaker problem about every 7 years.  This is my 3rd problem in 21 years. 

What fail rate do others have with FOH speakers with other brands?

We own a lot of speakers - 76 VerTec line array elements (tops & subs), a dozen KF850, 16 SRX728, 16 SRX712, 32 dbTech T4 and a bunch of others.  I don't recall servicing any of them last year, but other than the 8 Mackie SRM450 we have, none of them are MI or pro-sumer equipment.

But when it rains, it pours.  We've had VerTec input PC boards with burned traces (the NL8 connectors are mounted to a printed circuit board with Molex connectors and wiring harness to the transducers) - 3 such failures in one year; that same year we sent back a couple of T4 because the amps made odd noises without input connections.  Still, out of nearly 200 loudspeakers in our shop we had only 5 failures that year which required removing the units from use.

I personally own a pair of Yamaha DBR112 which I was told are crap speakers (they're not, but they ain't DSR or DXR, for sure) and so far I've been very happy in the first year of ownership.  We'll have to wait and see if they develop problems before I retire (which I hope is before the warranty expires)...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Nathan Riddle on February 22, 2018, 01:26:00 pm
What fail rate do others have with FOH speakers with other brands?

Do you want Anecdotal Evidence? Because this is how you get anecdotal evidence.

Qsc - zero...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 22, 2018, 04:41:59 pm
Do you want Anecdotal Evidence? Because this is how you get anecdotal evidence.
I understand your thoughts.  It was just a curiosity. 

Equipment can fail for any number of reasons (and does IME).  My own DSR speakers have survived user abuse, both physical and running at clip for extended periods of time). My driver may have been damaged for quite some time and since the fail mode was so intermittent, infrequent and less obvious,  I simply haven't noticed.

Debbie on the other hand messed up her show ... more than once... and she didn't do anything to cause it.  That is kind of scary.

I am curios to see what failed and why.  The oxidation of connectors seems to be a theme that is being suggested by several sources.  If that is all it is, I suppose I could handle that myself as I had to do with my old mix wizard as well as my tc electronics m one xl. 

While only anicdotal as pointed out, it gives us a warm feeling to know what a reasonable fail rate is.  I currently can live with 1 speaker out of 4 having an issue every 7 years and feel pretty good about my equipment.

I would certainly prefer the warranty stats from each manufacturer if someone could provide that :)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Nathan Riddle on February 22, 2018, 05:00:57 pm
I understand your thoughts.  It was just a curiosity. 

That's fine, I just wouldn't want passerby (~5.6k views and growing) to get the idea from responses any single brand has a different failure rate based upon poor logic and small sample set.

A better question might be, who else has had issues with their Yamaha prosumer speakers?
What is the subjective experience everyone with other manufactures failure rates?

These even fail the logic tests, we'll never know how many people DIDN'T have issues.

I would certainly prefer the warranty stats from each manufacturer if someone could provide that :)

I certainly would appreciate that too :)

I think if you wanted real numbers from a user base then create a thread with a poll.

I have 4x QSC & 2x JBL speakers, I've had a failure of both. Warranties are both nice and a headache. This thread is evident of that.

---

Sorry for the derail, carry on.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 22, 2018, 06:08:51 pm
That's fine, I just wouldn't want passerby (~5.6k views and growing) to get the idea from responses any single brand has a different failure rate based upon poor logic and small sample set.

A better question might be, who else has had issues with their Yamaha prosumer speakers?
What is the subjective experience everyone with other manufactures failure rates?

These even fail the logic tests, we'll never know how many people DIDN'T have issues.

I certainly would appreciate that too :)

I think if you wanted real numbers from a user base then create a thread with a poll.

I have 4x QSC & 2x JBL speakers, I've had a failure of both. Warranties are both nice and a headache. This thread is evident of that.

---

Sorry for the derail, carry on.

Good point Nathan.  I agree.

I got verification from my tech today that Yamaha did agree that the warranty period is indeed 7 years (like I didn't already know that) and that the driver is on order and the repair is completely covered under warranty..... Great news for me, and likely all due to Debbie keeping those fingers crossed for me (thanks Debbie!).

My warranty expires at the end of March this year, so this was really the very last moment I could have gotten it fixed for free.  The woofer driver is $365 if you have to purchase it yourself FYI. 

As for a little more information, one interesting fact is that Yamaha has changed the woofer driver part number since the early models (like the ones I have).  As some of you may have figured out by my warranty date, I was a very early adopter of the DSR112.  I went to the store to buy a PRX612m, but simply couldn't get past the fact that the DSR112 was much better sounding, and more powerful.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 23, 2018, 03:25:35 am
The woofer driver is $365 if you have to purchase it yourself FYI. 


I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.

Datapoint on Yamaha speakers: 1x DBR10, gets used for house parties and the like with a sub, so you know they hammer it. No problems so far.

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Morison on February 23, 2018, 08:48:46 am
I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.
Chris

Just being pedantic; the Yammi's are 3" voicecoil so closer to the Kappalite series than the Deltalite, making the comparison $190 rather than $150 (using the price on Emi's own website).

Not that that does anything to change your underlying point - it's still a huge markup.

Obviously, no manufacturer wants random people just buying their spares to use in DIY boxes or anything silly like that, so I understand there being some premium, but 92% does still seem huge.

FWIW,
David.

Edit to add: I'm also fully aware it might not be the stock driver, and any customization to suit Yamaha's requirements obviously adds to the cost as well.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 23, 2018, 10:25:27 am
I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.

Datapoint on Yamaha speakers: 1x DBR10, gets used for house parties and the like with a sub, so you know they hammer it. No problems so far.

Chris

Yep, an aftermarket speaker for $190 vs OEM at $365.  Still, I doubt anyone would want to put anything other than the OEM woofer in a $900 DSR speaker.  Might be an interesting comparison though if someone were to want to do it, I would be all ears :)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on February 23, 2018, 11:18:55 pm
Just saw this thread (havent been on much). I don't know if any of you remember one of my DSR's going out completely in June, took it into the Local Yamaha service center. They had it two weeks, replaced the board, then it went out in August. It was the first gig with it back since I had purchased a back up. Well in October I emailed the tech and he said the board was back ordered. Well here it is February and still nothing. Maybe I should call Yamaha and escalate my claim or tell them to sent me a new one...Like I said I have a back up so no worries, but festival season will be here soon.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 24, 2018, 04:47:45 am
Just being pedantic; the Yammi's are 3" voicecoil so closer to the Kappalite series than the Deltalite, making the comparison $190 rather than $150 (using the price on Emi's own website).

Not that that does anything to change your underlying point - it's still a huge markup.

Obviously, no manufacturer wants random people just buying their spares to use in DIY boxes or anything silly like that, so I understand there being some premium, but 92% does still seem huge.

FWIW,
David.

Edit to add: I'm also fully aware it might not be the stock driver, and any customization to suit Yamaha's requirements obviously adds to the cost as well.

Fair point - hadn't checked the voicecoil diameter. Good catch.
I would hope Yamaha would've added demodulating rings etc etc, but that's not something Eminence does often.

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 24, 2018, 06:30:41 am
Just saw this thread (havent been on much). I don't know if any of you remember one of my DSR's going out completely in June, took it into the Local Yamaha service center. They had it two weeks, replaced the board, then it went out in August. It was the first gig with it back since I had purchased a back up. Well in October I emailed the tech and he said the board was back ordered. Well here it is February and still nothing. Maybe I should call Yamaha and escalate my claim or tell them to sent me a new one...Like I said I have a back up so no worries, but festival season will be here soon.
I can only hope that this is not indicative of normal turn around times.  My tech said the new driver should be there in a couple of weeks ..... which is still quite some time in my book, but seems on the inside of "acceptable".

It doesn't seem plausible that Yamaha has no parts they can ship.  The speaker is still in mass production after all.

As an aside, the techs in the store were amazed at the output and quality of sound of the DSR.  I am guessing they are used to DXR and DBR's (or other similar products from other companies).  Since the issue with my speaker only happens at quite high output (not clipping mind you, but not too far south of where the clip light starts to flicker on either), I turned it up myself to show them the problem.

Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

I found this a little strange since I always assumed that as long as I stayed out of solid clip territory (I generally run with only an occasional clip on lower notes in big venues, and far south of clip in most venues), that there was no way to damage the speaker.

In their initial write up, I specifically stated the problem only occurs at higher volumes.  I had hoped that this would be enough to get them on the right track.  I also offered to give them the MP3 that I used to create the problem, but they said a frequency sweep would be enough (obviously not).

I'll update when the driver comes in and I get my speaker back.  Considering that they took the driver out of the cab and it still showed the problem, it seems like a safe bet that replacing the driver will fix the problem.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 24, 2018, 07:52:33 am
Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

My new article has just gone up - https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/finding-the-limits-pursuing-useful-loudspeaker-specs-including-spl/ where I explore the limits of a speaker that's quite similar to the DSRs. I won't say which speaker it is, since that might be problematic for the manufacturer, but if you can be bothered to go through my posts you'll probably figure it out.

In short, no chance of damaging the drivers with frequency sweeps. They have some pretty comprehensive limiting in there, so you'd have to really really try if you wanted to hurt them. Solid clipping isn't an issue - the RMS limiters will take care of it just fine. I found that if I played a sine tone and left it for a while (with the limit light on), the signal dropped to 10v RMS after a few seconds, and stayed there. That wouldn't be a problem, even for the cheap drivers they used in the test speaker.

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 24, 2018, 01:50:03 pm
Chris,

Very interesting article!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on February 24, 2018, 02:50:47 pm
I can only hope that this is not indicative of normal turn around times.  My tech said the new driver should be there in a couple of weeks ..... which is still quite some time in my book, but seems on the inside of "acceptable".

It doesn't seem plausible that Yamaha has no parts they can ship.  The speaker is still in mass production after all.

As an aside, the techs in the store were amazed at the output and quality of sound of the DSR.  I am guessing they are used to DXR and DBR's (or other similar products from other companies).  Since the issue with my speaker only happens at quite high output (not clipping mind you, but not too far south of where the clip light starts to flicker on either), I turned it up myself to show them the problem.

Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

I found this a little strange since I always assumed that as long as I stayed out of solid clip territory (I generally run with only an occasional clip on lower notes in big venues, and far south of clip in most venues), that there was no way to damage the speaker.

In their initial write up, I specifically stated the problem only occurs at higher volumes.  I had hoped that this would be enough to get them on the right track.  I also offered to give them the MP3 that I used to create the problem, but they said a frequency sweep would be enough (obviously not).

I'll update when the driver comes in and I get my speaker back.  Considering that they took the driver out of the cab and it still showed the problem, it seems like a safe bet that replacing the driver will fix the problem.

No the first board was shipped in a week, the second one Yamaha approved is on back order, that in it's self though is a little unnerving to me.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stephen Kirby on February 25, 2018, 12:42:43 am
I would hope Yamaha would've added demodulating rings etc etc, but that's not something Eminence does often.

Chris
Actually, Eminence does quite a bit of custom/mod work for manufacturers.  A friend of mine that used to work in the Fender Custom Shop (has his own company nowadays) was getting lots of specialized speakers for various amps from EMI.  He told me that his last task there was to make the HRD sound loud.  So he worked with EMI to make something that would sound loud and impressive in a music store.  Bit different than the speakers they made for him for various Custom Shop amps to get tones he liked, but all in a days work.  I'm sure that if Yamaha wanted a different compliance or cone weight for a product, EMI would mod something for them.  Just because it looks like a stock EMI from the outside I wouldn't count on it.  So many variables like former material or coil length that you can't see that they can mod for an OEM.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 25, 2018, 06:11:27 am
Actually, Eminence does quite a bit of custom/mod work for manufacturers.

Yep.
What I meant was that I haven't seen any Eminence models with demodulating rings, and IIRC when they did some tests they found the distortion improvement in the LF range wasn't worth the extra work. Through the midrange, sure, but why don't they include that in their product range?

Chris
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 25, 2018, 07:04:45 am
Chris,

Nice article(s).  As an aside, SPL is a weighted average .... and there are several "weights" you can use.  The most popular is A which is very top heavy and ignores most of the LF content.

To your point though, I would expect that the LF driver was protected through the DSP limiter even when the incoming signal kept the unit in solid clip.  Indeed, when you see the clip light come on for the DSR, there is an obvious hysteresis before it goes back off again (once activated, it stays on for a bit even after the signal drops down).  I suspect you could run these speaker hard limited all night without hurting anything.

Other speakers I can't speak for.  I know that some lower priced powered speakers can be damaged by hitting them with too much signal and clipping them hard.  That just seems like a bad design to me.

I have had run-away feedback and dropped microphones and all other forms of mishap on the inputs that had no effect on the DSR112's.  They have proved to be quite robust in the face of stupidity.

Of course, now I have to evaluate if they really did survive all that, or if there was at some point damage done that simply wasn't easy to detect.

It is also possible that this defect has been present since the day I bought the speaker.  It really is that obscure.  Only one frequency, and only when nearing its full output.

Debbie,

Any news on your speaker?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2018, 10:44:05 am
No news since I spoke to Yamaha on tuesday. I'll be calling them again tomorrow.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 01, 2018, 08:54:05 pm
Update:
First - I got a call from the local service tech on monday asking me if the speaker was working OK. He has never done this before after any repair to my gear. I told him I have not used the speaker yet because I do not trust it and that I was waiting on communication with Yamaha about this.

I hadn't heard back from Yamaha so I called  them on tuesday.
I had a 15 minute hold time - not unusual in my experience - I got through to Jans. I told him I was waiting for some information that Robert promised me. He told me that 'Louis' in service was supposed to be getting in contact with me about this. I asked if it was customary to wait over a week for something like this and he got quite defensive and rude - cut into my question and said, " Look - I am just trying to help you and I need to transfer you to Louis". Wow - way to go to treat a customer. So he gave me an extension number and said he was transferring my call.
He transferred me to a non - existent extension.
At this point I was so angry and made a call to someone else.
I had been given the direct number of a Yamaha staff member here on the forum and so I called him.
He was really understanding and told me he would do all he could do to help me and to give him  couple of days.
30 minutes later my local tech called me and said that a lady from Yamaha called him -out of the blue- and told him to go ahead and order a new amp module. He also told me she said that the only time de-oxit should be necessary on a 'fix' would be if I lived near the beach or in Florida - DUH....my point from the beginning!!
The next day Robert called me from Yamaha and asked if I had received his email that he sent me last week regarding the call from the tech to Yamaha. I told him no and I had checked each day. We chatted and I asked him what was the result of the recorded call made to Yamaha by the service tech. He told me that the Tech HAD in fact called Yamaha regarding this but that Yamaha NEVER told him to use de-oxit.  He also said that the tach was paid for his work so paperwork should have been made available..
Robert said that techs trained to be Yamaha authorized service shops are NEVER trained to use de-oxit as a Yamaha repair.
I told him that a new amp was on order.  Robert said that the call to the tech was probably from the service dept manager who is female. I confirmed my email address with Robert and asked if he could resend that email to me regarding the call between Yamaha and the tech.

I have still not received the email.

However, I am getting a new amp for my speaker - YAY.

Am I happy that I had to become such a squeaky wheel to get what I deserve on a warranty issue ?- Absolutely NOT - but we got there.

Every rep I spoke to at yamaha said NOT to use de-oxit on powered speakers because the danger is wth the overspray.

I'll never know by who or how many times the ball got dropped here.

I hope my experience is of help to anyone having similar issues.

Thank you to everyone who commented and contacted me over this.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 02, 2018, 12:57:38 am
Update:

I got a call last night from the tech.  Driver
Came in and the speaker is ready for pickup. 

Yamaha again refused the warranty claim and the tech sent him the link that I sent him.  After another 30 min on the phone, Yamaha finally agreed that the speaker was under its 7 year warranty.

I will pick it up on Saturday, but before I do, I will test it again.

I feel your pain Debbie.

Yamaha,

Please do better.  You make a great product,  but support has been a real PITA.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on March 02, 2018, 01:02:11 am
Yamaha again refused the warranty claim and the tech sent him the link that I sent him.  After another 30 min on the phone, Yamaha finally agreed that the speaker was under its 7 year warranty.


I continually have to remind crown that iTechHDs have a five year warranty. For a while my standard line to them was.... You do realize there are no 4x3500s in existence out of warranty right??....right??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 02, 2018, 07:23:39 am
Update:

I got a call last night from the tech.  Driver
Came in and the speaker is ready for pickup. 

Yamaha again refused the warranty claim and the tech sent him the link that I sent him.  After another 30 min on the phone, Yamaha finally agreed that the speaker was under its 7 year warranty.

I will pick it up on Saturday, but before I do, I will test it again.

I feel your pain Debbie.

Yamaha,

Please do better.  You make a great product,  but support has been a real PITA.
Consider this, regarding powered speakers.

What happens, years from now, when the particular speaker is no longer made, or special parts are no longer available etc.?

Unless you can get some other amplifier, with the same processing, to fit into the hole, the speaker is pretty much trash.

A 1960s Altec A7 will run just fine off of any amplifier made today, or even before the A7 was around.  And there are plenty of various replacement drivers that will keep it working until the wood rots.

So powered loudspeakers should generally be considered "disposable" products.

Just something to consider.

I still prefer outboard amplifiers.  Maybe it is just me.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: frank kayser on March 02, 2018, 09:16:59 am
Consider this, regarding powered speakers.

What happens, years from now, when the particular speaker is no longer made, or special parts are no longer available etc.?

Unless you can get some other amplifier, with the same processing, to fit into the hole, the speaker is pretty much trash.

A 1960s Altec A7 will run just fine off of any amplifier made today, or even before the A7 was around.  And there are plenty of various replacement drivers that will keep it working until the wood rots.

So powered loudspeakers should generally be considered "disposable" products.

Just something to consider.

I still prefer outboard amplifiers.  Maybe it is just me.
Food for thought, Ivan.
On the other hand, with such manufacturer-speciality drivers specific to cabinets, there is no guarantee that a driver failure in the future not would similarly turn the speaker to trash.  Arguably, drivers will be around longer than those speciality amps, though.


Debbie - at least your frustration seem to be close to proper resolution. Hope it is smooth sailing here out.  Dues paid.
Scott - Similarly, you managed to teach them how to count to seven.  Well done.


We'll hope these experiences are aberrations.  It is a shame that folks are forced to become different people to get others to do what they should have done without argument. (sigh)


frank

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 02, 2018, 09:54:26 am


Debbie - at least your frustration seem to be close to proper resolution. Hope it is smooth sailing here out.  Dues paid.
Scott - Similarly, you managed to teach them how to count to seven.  Well done.


We'll hope these experiences are aberrations.  It is a shame that folks are forced to become different people to get others to do what they should have done without argument. (sigh)


frank

In my experience working customer service for so many years, no-one ever wins by being a jerk and the nicer customers tend to get better service - human nature. Plus, these guys are just doing their jobs and only have so much control in these situations.
I go out of my way to be polite, reasonable and understanding when I have these types of situations occur in my life because I really believe folks are more willing to help me that way.
However, sometimes I feel I am walking a fine line between being patient and being 'that' customer.
I worry sometimes that my attitude is perceived as weakness though so once in a while I throw in a curve ball comment just to keep folks on their toes and to make them realize they are not dealing with an idiot and I really won't let this go.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on March 02, 2018, 10:21:08 am
However, sometimes I feel I am walking a fine line between being patient and being 'that' customer.


Like sending back meal that isn't cooked exactly as ordered or seasoned just right.  It might come back with special sauce if the chef / cook has had a bad day (and if he is inclined to do so). 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on March 02, 2018, 03:01:44 pm
One of the attractions to the DXR & DSR in the first place is the 7-year warranty, so having to fight them to get them to honor it sucks.
Love my Yammies.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 02, 2018, 04:50:26 pm

I feel your pain Debbie.

Yamaha,

Please do better.  You make a great product,  but support has been a real PITA.

Yep... too true.

I am pleased you have the conclusion you deserve  Scott... good news all round.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 02, 2018, 05:01:13 pm
Food for thought, Ivan.
On the other hand, with such manufacturer-speciality drivers specific to cabinets, there is no guarantee that a driver failure in the future not would similarly turn the speaker to trash.  Arguably, drivers will be around longer than those speciality amps, though.



But at least if you have the normal basic sizes you can probably find something that is "close enough".

That being said, drivers tend to "hang around" a lot longer than special size amp modules.

At least with rack amps, they are all the same size, so you can swap them around quite a bit.  With powered speakers, you are pretty much stuck with the size hole available, unless you do some special work to the cabinet (making the hole larger-putting spacers in etc)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Aaron Maurer on March 03, 2018, 08:51:49 am
Update on my DSR112 dilemma. Service tech called last Tuesday and said Yamaha is sending a new circuit board. The seven year warranty was also a BIG selling point for me as well. I personally had no need to call Yamaha directly at this point as the service tech has been on top of this issue and very responsive. If I didn’t have a backup set of speakers I might feel it’s dragging out a bit long but can be patient due to my built in redundancy. Will post back once I get the box back.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 03, 2018, 10:34:50 am
But at least if you have the normal basic sizes you can probably find something that is "close enough".

That being said, drivers tend to "hang around" a lot longer than special size amp modules.

At least with rack amps, they are all the same size, so you can swap them around quite a bit.  With powered speakers, you are pretty much stuck with the size hole available, unless you do some special work to the cabinet (making the hole larger-putting spacers in etc)
Interesting point.

I (like all of you) once had a full passive system.  Amp racks, cross-over, DSP, and 3-way 15" tops over subs.

In around the same 7 year time window, I had 1 tweeter go bad, and one 18" sub driver go bad.  Sure, this is just my experience with one set of passive speakers.  Others have different experiences and mine can surely not be considered statistical data by any means.

The system was much bigger, much heavier, and just as reliable as my current powered FOH has been on average.

The woofer from my Cerwin Vega folded horn was not covered under warranty.  The tweeter from Klipsch they sent a new diaphragm for free.

The DSR's have been on the market for a little over 7 years now (I was an early adopter).  This is the first problem I have had.  They sound much better than any top I have used before, and I don't have to lug around an amp rack.

Since the DSR112 is still in production, I would suspect we could get replacement parts for them easily for the next 5 years even if they stopped tomorrow.

Lets say that powered speakers are easily serviceable for 10 years through OEM parts.  Throw in another 5 years for eBay parts.  15 year service life for a box seems reasonable to me. 

Yes, powered speakers are disposable after that time frame; however, in all likelihood, better products will be around by that time as well (lighter, more robust, better sounding).  Anyone can make them sound good without any understanding of sound reinforcement.

As a side note, I still have the Klipsch 3-way tops.  They have been doing party duty in my basement with my QSC PLX3002 amplifier.  So they are around 25 years of service at this point in time.

In my previous life using passive FOH, me and many of my friends had failures.  Amps fail, drivers fail, cross-overs fail, etc.  I doubt I could repair my Klipsch now if it failed.  They are only worth around $200 (if that) on the market because they are so big and heavy (and really not that loud compared to modern powered speakers).

Is it really that different?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 03, 2018, 11:14:59 am
Tim McCulloch,

I think you're aware I do not now or have I ever embraced prosumer powered cabinets, and I'll point to this thread as living proof as to why I feel that way. In my world (the OLD world) amplifiers are built to specifications based on their output capability, which is determined in no small part by the components used to create / manufacture the amplifier. QSC, Crown, etc. all have low cost low output amplifiers, and all have high output high cost amplifiers. End of point #1.

So now in todays world the highly prized and easy to move powered cabinet comes along and the masses see this as a god send. People flock to the powered cabinets like flies to honey, and soon every manufacturer has a premium powered cabinet (think JBL VP series), and a low cost powered series (think EON). The problem now becomes the race to the bottom of the cost ladder and who can push out the biggest bang for the buck, pun intended.

Certainly the amplifiers being used in the low cost world aren't the same as the manufacturers rack mount units, even the low cost rack mount units. So where is the cost of manufacturing lowered? My knowledge tells me that the cost is lowered through the use of lower cost components and simplified designs for both the cabinets and the internal amplifier, and you're right back to getting what you pay for.

I personally have a problem with not being able to swap out a cabinet or amplifier as an independent device, for many, many reasons, which I'll not get into here.

My question to you would be how many of the cabinets in your inventory are actually powered, and how many of those powered cabinets are critical to the show. I know the answer (I think), please expound.

And, shame on Yamaha and their piss poor support.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 03, 2018, 11:17:50 am
Just as a side note.......
Lately I have not been using my DSR112's for obvious reasons - once the defective one gets repaired, I will again.
So, I have used my SRX812's a few times and for the small shows, I have been using my PRX712's. Over the years I have used the DSR's in virtually every type of situation spanning all kinds of room acoustics.
The SRX812's have a very similar sound to the DSR's IMHO leaving me very little to change EQ wise as I have said here before, so didn't notice much difference using them.  I consider them to be quite interchangeable with the Yammies actually.
However, I have chosen the PRX712's on occasion when high SPL is not expected AND they are a lot lighter to throw up on stands so they are a good choice in certain instances and a nice relief from the weight of the SRX812's.
BUT..... having gotten so used to my DSR's over the years, I can honesty say I really miss it when I am not using them.
With the PRX's nothing seems to really 'pop'. The sound is just meh.....
Last night I spent ages trying to EQ them in - horrible room BTW - but in the end I had to come to the conclusion that I was trying to make them sound like the DSR's and that isn't going to happen.
They make great monitors and I am sure no-one in the room cared about the lack of 'sparkle' but me - but wow! isn't it weird how much we get used to a certain sound and how that affects our expectation regardless of room acoustics or application?.

Disclaimer: I realize there are folks here who use PRX speakers all the time and love them and I am in no way casting aspersions on that - we all hear sound in different ways and we all have our favorites. It also depends on the application and what subs they might be coupled with too.  Trust me the PRX speaker is a fantastic box - I wouldn't own 4 of them if I didn't think so.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jay Marr on March 03, 2018, 12:47:09 pm
I personally have a problem with not being able to swap out a cabinet or amplifier as an independent device, for many, many reasons, which I'll not get into here.

I have always agreed with this.  And last night was a great example for me.
I used iTechs for my (SRX728) subs and 2 front wedges.  Right when we were going on last night, my bass player's head died.  We limped through the first set with just him through the PA (which sounds fine out front, but is not a great experience on stage).  During our first break, my bass player give me his powered wedge, and I 'gave him' my side of one of the power amps.  He ran his SansAmp into the power amp, and into his bass cab....and it sounded outstanding.  This would not have been possible if all of my gear was powered.  I love the modular aspect of a passive system.

But my struggle is passive Xovers.
I own DSR112's and they sound amazing.  I also own passive JBL SRX812s.  They do not sound as good as the DSRs. 
This is very likely due to the fact that I am using a regular Crown iTech and NOT using an iTech with V5 tunings and running the cabs bi-amped.  If I went that route, I'm going to end up spending more for a new Crown amp than I did for the DSRs.
I have yet to find a cost effective way to get a passive top to sound as good as a powered top, without dropping decent money to get an amp with the proper software to Bi-Amp the cabinets.
The plug and play capability of the powered tops seems to win, even though I wish I could go all Passive.

I have not yet tried to do deep Eq tweaks to the Passive JBLs to see how good they can sound.  But out of the box, the Yammies win.

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 03, 2018, 12:58:49 pm
I have always agreed with this.  And last night was a great example for me.
I used iTechs for my (SRX728) subs and 2 front wedges.  Right when we were going on last night, my bass player's head died.  We limped through the first set with just him through the PA (which sounds fine out front, but is not a great experience on stage).  During our first break, my bass player give me his powered wedge, and I 'gave him' my side of one of the power amps.  He ran his SansAmp into the power amp, and into his bass cab....and it sounded outstanding.  This would not have been possible if all of my gear was powered.  I love the modular aspect of a passive system.

But my struggle is passive Xovers.
I own DSR112's and they sound amazing.  I also own passive JBL SRX812s.  They do not sound as good as the DSRs. 
This is very likely due to the fact that I am using a regular Crown iTech and NOT using an iTech with V5 tunings and running the cabs bi-amped.  If I went that route, I'm going to end up spending more for a new Crown amp than I did for the DSRs.
I have yet to find a cost effective way to get a passive top to sound as good as a powered top, without dropping decent money to get an amp with the proper software to Bi-Amp the cabinets.
The plug and play capability of the powered tops seems to win, even though I wish I could go all Passive.

I have not yet tried to do deep Eq tweaks to the Passive JBLs to see how good they can sound.  But out of the box, the Yammies win.

Jay, when I had my SRX700 system, I used to run the tops bi amped and I LOVED the sound I got.
I have had some regrets going powered but I do enjoy not having to coil up HUGE Speakon cables at the end of the night and carrying my huge amp rack to the shows. I also enjoy the simplicity of the powered system and the fact the internal DSP gets me to where I need to be so much easier and cheaper than before.
However, there is a trade off to everything and I went into this eyes wide open (I still miss my SRX700 system though).... Bob Leonard - I know, I know...

Regarding the bass amp situation. Well done on the creative fix.
We have no bass backline and he is iem so we and are in the habit of bringing a couple of bass processor pedals with us just in case.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 03, 2018, 01:31:28 pm
@Bob,

True enough; however, I would point out that the cost reduction in powered speakers is not necessarily the speaker "cheeping out".  Many things become less expensive when the amp lives with the speaker:

1)  No additional enclosure needed.
2)  Much more surface area for a big heat sink
3)  Amp is guaranteed only to supply a very specific load
4)  Since the DSP is also part of the module, the amp section can be reduced in cost and the DSP can address any non-linearity
5)  Built in limiting ensures that no prolonged  over-current from the amp is needed.  Limiting can be specifically setup to ensure the amp is protected.
6)  The amp module doesn't have to handle anything like bridge mode.

While it is possible to make passive speakers sound great, it comes at an increased cost in the speaker components, amp components, and outside processing.

The ease of getting good sound along with the compactness of a powered FOH (vs passive) is worth it for me.  It is nice to have the entire DSP engineered by the OEM built into the speaker.

I don't miss my amp rack or my heavy passive speakers ;)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on March 03, 2018, 08:56:55 pm
Many things become less expensive when the amp lives with the speaker:

I think the question for many of us (myself included) is whether or not things become less reliable when the amp lives with the speaker. Crown, Yamaha... I've never had a problem with their rack mounted power amps. But put a Crown in a JBL cab, or a Yamaha in a DSR, and things seem to be different.

I've been laughed at before for suggesting that the vibrations of a speaker cab could be detrimental to the health of the amp modules inside, but I still think there's something to it.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to go active. But with the exception of my monitors, I'm staying passive for awhile longer.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 03, 2018, 09:34:55 pm
I think the question for many of us (myself included) is whether or not things become less reliable when the amp lives with the speaker. Crown, Yamaha... I've never had a problem with their rack mounted power amps. But put a Crown in a JBL cab, or a Yamaha in a DSR, and things seem to be different.

I've been laughed at before for suggesting that the vibrations of a speaker cab could be detrimental to the health of the amp modules inside, but I still think there's something to it.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to go active. But with the exception of my monitors, I'm staying passive for awhile longer.
I think that many race for more features at a lower price in powered speakers.

That does come at a price, something has to be cut somewhere.  I think some designs are "running on the edge" to keep costs down.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on March 03, 2018, 11:02:35 pm
I think the question for many of us (myself included) is whether or not things become less reliable when the amp lives with the speaker. Crown, Yamaha... I've never had a problem with their rack mounted power amps. But put a Crown in a JBL cab, or a Yamaha in a DSR, and things seem to be different.

I've been laughed at before for suggesting that the vibrations of a speaker cab could be detrimental to the health of the amp modules inside, but I still think there's something to it.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to go active. But with the exception of my monitors, I'm staying passive for awhile longer.
Failure rates are low. Think of how many powered speakers are out in the wild getting the shit kicked out of them weekend after weekend.
Personally, my failure rate for powered boxes vs passive plus an amp are pretty even. Recent past I’ve had to replace an amp module in a QSC HPR, and had to replace a driver in a KW181. Oh, and more recently a DSR went in for service for the bacon frying sound. All remedied quickly by the manufacturers. In the distant past I blew through several drivers in passive subwoofers due to inexperience and no (or improper) limiting.
Active boxes would have probably saved me from blowing those up, though there weren’t a lot of options 25 years ago. I also had a few amp failures back in those days, but the amps I could afford back then were already pretty long in the tooth.
Another thing to think about is that we’re not married to the gear. I realize that most of us are looking for a long term ROI in our purchases, but really...how many boxes that you owned 10 years ago, do you still own today? I like to turn over our production gear fairly regularly so that the goods can be sold with some warranty still left (in most cases) and since I also do retail sales, I’m in a position to be able to bring in new lines to try out for a season or 2. I don’t like it? I sell it.
I agree that active boxes are a compromise to some degree, but the perfomance/versatility vs price makes them a winner for a lot of our uses. I’m talking about the better boxes ala DSR, KW, etc. We went through a pile of cheaper, crappier, plastic boxes that DJ’s were happy to buy).

Long story, long. DSR’s are a great sounding, versatile box that we put to use in several ways. They are not likely the last powered box we will ever own.
Our passive Danley gear is some of the finest sounding, versatile speakers I’ve had the pleasure of using. Who knows how long I’ll own this stuff though.
As long as the gear is reliable, sounds good, and I make money with it -then I’m happy.
Based on my experience. YMMV.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: James Paul on March 04, 2018, 08:44:20 am
but really...how many boxes that you owned 10 years ago, do you still own today?
As long as the gear is reliable, sounds good, and I make money with it -then I’m happy.

Dozen each circa 15 year old Yamaha SM15IV, and Yamaha F15 boxes.
A gaggle of EV SX200/300 boxes dating back to `98.
Worth mentioning 20 year old QSC PLs, and 30+ year old Canare Starquad. All aforementioned currently deployed or in rotation.

Reliable, sounds good, making money, check, check, and check. Silly ROI. Not to even get into any of the Peavey gear, like that Drummin`Bunny on Crack, that just keeps going and going. And then there are the mics, but going off topic enough....

My approach, passive or powered speakers, are simply tools, to learn to adapt, adopt, and incorporate if and as needed, mindful of the rewards and risks, benefits and burdens.
 
How much different is an amp/DSP module bolted to a speaker box than most any type electronic device/ module stuffed into most any part of a modern car, truck, or bus that could/would be subjected to similar perils of physical vibrations, temperature extremes, moisture, and contaminants? A powered cabinet should see less abuse by comparison, even though recognizing the potential heat generated from an amp module.

Debbie, glad you are on the path to resolution with Yamaha. There is so much love for those DSR112s, if only for the fact of some of the more than 2 dozen owner/users of DSR112s by my count, who peruse and post in these forums, that I too hear what you described of your experience between the DSR & SRX cabs, and share your sentiments.
IMHO and experience, Yamaha is a stand-up company. Keep the faith, and continue to enjoy.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 04, 2018, 09:27:06 am
I realize that most of us are looking for a long term ROI in our purchases, but really...how many boxes that you owned 10 years ago, do you still own today?
A few years ago I was talking to one of my "mentors" from the early 80s.

He said he was still running the same cabinets as back then, (new consoles and such).

He said "those cabinets have paid for themselves MANY times over, and I have these young kids working for me that want to be in rock and roll and don't mind moving those cabinets"

He saw no reason to update something that was a solid money maker.

It wasn't about getting more gear, it was about making money on what you already had.

Of course others feel differently.

Buy good tools and use them a long time.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on March 04, 2018, 09:44:02 am
Can’t fault anyone able to make money on gear that’s already paid for itself. I could have done similar, but then I would have needed more or larger vehicles to transport, more hired hands etc. Different strokes and all that.
I will admit to being the poster boy for changing out gear more often than I really need to, though I do own cables, mics, stands etc that are 10+ years old.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Keith Broughton on March 04, 2018, 09:59:44 am

Buy good tools and use them a long time.
Amen, Brother Ivan  ;D
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 04, 2018, 03:16:25 pm
For me, passive equated to large, heavy, and complex.  I would also add that the entire setup was likely more expensive as well (as compared to my current powered FOH).

Really, the driving factor was size and weight.  I was pleasantly surprised that the powered FOH was better sounding.

With passive systems, it is just easy to screw up and blow a driver.  I also had my DRPA settings get scrambled (took me a while to figure that one out), cables get crossed up (sounds like crap after that), etc, etc.

Powered system .... just plug it in, turn it on, and play.  Pretty darned hard to mess that up.

I believe that the DSR112's are pretty reliable.  Of the many many people that I know, and know of, who own them, I have only heard of a very few problems.  I have never heard of a single problem (so far) that was not covered by warranty.

All that aside, I am pretty sure that most of us love the DSR112 because it simply sounds great.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 04, 2018, 04:43:45 pm

All that aside, I am pretty sure that most of us love the DSR112 because it simply sounds great.

Agreed without hesitation!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 04, 2018, 06:08:19 pm
Can’t fault anyone able to make money on gear that’s already paid for itself. I could have done similar, but then I would have needed more or larger vehicles to transport, more hired hands etc. Different strokes and all that.
I will admit to being the poster boy for changing out gear more often than I really need to, though I do own cables, mics, stands etc that are 10+ years old.

I've been through five (5) consoles in the past 10 years, but have continued to use, and will still continue to use my SRX-7xx rig and older analog big iron amps. Like Ivan said, buy good tools and be done with it. I've lived my life adhering to that mentality. I have Craftsman, Porter cable, Milwaukee, and other quality tools dating back to the 50's, still as good and productive as the day they were purchased, including the sabre saw that was my fathers and bought in 1952.

Most people on this forum know about my rig, good for about 1500 people, dual system for vocals and backline, SRX725's, 718's, QSC amplifiers, DBX 4800 DSP, and now a Soundcraft Performer with stage box replacing my last board, the only part of the system upgraded in 10-12 years.

None of these components were budget components, but the system has paid for itself many, many times over. I don't mind pushing a heavy rack vs. pushing a light one, so maybe that's the real difference here.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 04, 2018, 06:32:30 pm
I've been through five (5) consoles in the past 10 years, but have continued to use, and will still continue to use my SRX-7xx rig and older analog big iron amps. Like Ivan said, buy good tools and be done with it. I've lived my life adhering to that mentality. I have Craftsman, Porter cable, Milwaukee, and other quality tools dating back to the 50's, still as good and productive as the day they were purchased, including the sabre saw that was my fathers and bought in 1952.

Most people on this forum know about my rig, good for about 1500 people, dual system for vocals and backline, SRX725's, 718's, QSC amplifiers, DBX 4800 DSP, and now a Soundcraft Performer with stage box replacing my last board, the only part of the system upgraded in 10-12 years.

None of these components were budget components, but the system has paid for itself many, many times over. I don't mind pushing a heavy rack vs. pushing a light one, so maybe that's the real difference here.

I tend to agree that pushing a heavier rack of stuff that does the job well is better than pushing a less weighty rack full of compromises (or no rack at all).  We get to exercise our preferences regarding the cost/size/weight/performance ratios that make sense for our individual uses.

Pound for pound, Watt for Watt, amplifiers have gotten much lighter (whether they're better is another discussion, for sure), woodworking and cabinet designs have gotten a little lighter, and transducers have gotten lighter (neo), power consumption is lower, DSP is more advanced, etc.  It's a great time to be in audio.

Your rig is perfect for what you need it to do.  Some folks here might think it overkill or "audio obesity" but you've got a top notch system to support your high end performances and musicians, and it obviously pleases your band's clients.  Rawk on, Dude! 8)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 04, 2018, 07:31:31 pm
Reply to general nature of this topic in re: service, reliability, support.

Ugg.  As owner of a pair of lowly DBR112 (they're crap, I was told here, hehehehe) with a 7 year warranty, it kind of pained me to see what Debby had to do to get Yamaha's attention let alone a resolution.  While the service facility was initially lying to her it was the inability to get a response of any kind from Yamaha that was frustrating to watch.  As a company manager our Yamaha products are digital mixers and support for them has been pretty good.  These days we mostly buy faders and don't need engineering support.

How do other companies do?  My experiences in no particular order or ranking:

Music Group/Tribe/Whateva - They replaced the bad fader on my X32 when it was 2 weeks out of warranty and I didn't have to ask or plead.  Had another problem with the internal computer which they handled as warranty, also.  The tech support when the computer failed wasn't Venue-level (see down page) because they wanted to see it at the Care shop (odd failure, I guess) so no instructions on how to open it up and poke around... but they emailed an RMA.  If they give you an RMA, ship today... I had to wait to ship it back to them and for some reason the RMA was "no longer in the system" because the product hadn't arrived within 10 days of issue.  Normally I'd growl about this but was able to take care of it with a phone call to Las Vegas that was eventually handled by a human, all in about 20 minutes. 

JBL "Professional" should be renamed "JBL - not for your home or car" as it seems to get everything from the crappy JRX to very-nice-indeed Venue Precision as a part of the family tree.  Talk about having ugly siblings...  Anyway I've found parts support hit and miss but I'm buying stuff for original VerTec models that are soon to be EOL so there's that.  For all SKUs - if they have it in stock in Northridge you're golden; if not you're SOL until they restock which could be weeks or months.  We haven't needed product engineering support in a long time so I've no idea what it's like these days but the take away is that I can usually get a human response to a phone call within a business day cycle.

Crown used to be phenomenal but lately it's tough to get a fast response unless you know the direct phone number to the person you need to talk to.  You'll get an answer back but it won't be today and probably not tomorrow.  I've no idea how they do with email.  The Elkhart factory is closing in stages this year; factory service appears to be done in Tijuana with shipping through a Harman depot in San Diego (Hi, Carmen!).  We're happy Crown owners - our I-Tech HDs have been good to us, all 52 of them.

By far the best support I use comes from AVID Venue (sorry, ProTools folks).  24/7 phone number that forwards your VM to a tech who will call you back in 15 minutes or so.  They can walk you through trouble shooting or field service ("remove the 23 screws that hold the fader tray in place...") of faders, internal connections, RAM & hard drive, PSU...  And IIRC they can take orders for parts.  Great support folks at AVID is part of why I'd like my next FOH console to be the *mythical* Venue S4L (reading, AVID?).

Crest Audio (New Jersey era) service and support were great.

Rane was great but recent reports from others say it's not like the Olde Dayz.

QSC has a great service & support reputation but we're not QSC users so all I know is what I read.

There ya go, about 10 years worth of official contacts with brand service and support and some anecdotals.  I don't know what kind of response I'd get if I called Yamaha with an escalating issue regarding the DBR112, compared to support for a PM or CL-series digital mixer.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Crump on March 04, 2018, 08:36:28 pm
I think the question for many of us (myself included) is whether or not things become less reliable when the amp lives with the speaker. Crown, Yamaha... I've never had a problem with their rack mounted power amps. But put a Crown in a JBL cab, or a Yamaha in a DSR, and things seem to be different.

I've been laughed at before for suggesting that the vibrations of a speaker cab could be detrimental to the health of the amp modules inside, but I still think there's something to it.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to go active. But with the exception of my monitors, I'm staying passive for awhile longer.

I have some active, but mostly passive gear.
Almost everyone I know has either went totally active or on the way, (they have active tops and waiting to convert over from passive to active on subs etc.)
One of the guys I know who gigs full time has had failures, seems like at least once a year, and right now I am waiting on him to bring a second sub over so I can try to figure out why it keeps blowing fuses. I already have one of his subs to look at that is rattling and it seems to be something related to the amp assembly. But compared to all the people using active gear, the failure rates seem low, as a matter of fact, his subs are getting some age on them and you couldn’t talk him into passive.

I called one of the large speaker manufacturer not long ago trying to locate any left over inventory of a recently discontinued sub. I ended up routed to the service dept and spoke with a very well informed tech who gave me a 40 year history and what is being planned down the road. His opinion of active was kind of harsh, he didn’t pull punches, he said it was like putting your amp in a box with a jack hammer.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 06, 2018, 08:16:46 pm
Update:

Picked up my speaker.  Tested it with the test recording, ran it up to the limit lights and .... WOOT!  It is fixed. 

Hope you get things ironed out fast Debbie.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2018, 08:53:19 pm
Update:

Picked up my speaker.  Tested it with the test recording, ran it up to the limit lights and .... WOOT!  It is fixed. 

Hope you get things ironed out fast Debbie.

Good news Scott. I got a call today that the amp is in but won't be able to drop it off till Friday probably. Good news for me so far too .....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stephen Kirby on March 06, 2018, 09:05:21 pm
His opinion of active was kind of harsh, he didn’t pull punches, he said it was like putting your amp in a box with a jack hammer.
I've considered this.  But then again I built the Head Up Displays and processors for the A10 Warthog (with the 30mm Gatling gun that literally arrests the plane's flight) and the Cobra attack helicopter (helicopters don't really fly, they vibrate so badly the ground rejects them  ;) ) so I know it can be done.  Currently I have passive subs and the only upgrade I'm considering would be TH118s which are also passive.  Having run sine sweeps on circuit boards with a differential strobe light I've seen just what kind of vibration they can tolerate.  And I'm not really worried about that aspect of my DSRs.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rick Powell on March 06, 2018, 10:30:34 pm
I've considered this.  But then again I built the Head Up Displays and processors for the A10 Warthog (with the 30mm Gatling gun that literally arrests the plane's flight) and the Cobra attack helicopter (helicopters don't really fly, they vibrate so badly the ground rejects them  ;) ) so I know it can be done.  Currently I have passive subs and the only upgrade I'm considering would be TH118s which are also passive.  Having run sine sweeps on circuit boards with a differential strobe light I've seen just what kind of vibration they can tolerate.  And I'm not really worried about that aspect of my DSRs.

I recall Ivan Beaver talking about a powered prototype of the Danley Jericho speaker with 6-18’s and other assorted midrange and horn speakers, and that the vibrations at full tilt pretty much tore up the amp modules, so the idea was scrapped.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Crump on March 07, 2018, 06:23:27 am
I've considered this.  But then again I built the Head Up Displays and processors for the A10 Warthog (with the 30mm Gatling gun that literally arrests the plane's flight) and the Cobra attack helicopter (helicopters don't really fly, they vibrate so badly the ground rejects them  ;) ) so I know it can be done.  Currently I have passive subs and the only upgrade I'm considering would be TH118s which are also passive.  Having run sine sweeps on circuit boards with a differential strobe light I've seen just what kind of vibration they can tolerate.  And I'm not really worried about that aspect of my DSRs.


I really don’t doubt that Yamaha does feel secure in their design or it probably wouldn’t have such a good warranty. At the very least, Yamaha has calculated a certain failure rate into the cost of their speaker. I myself have a DBR and also some RCF active. I see first hand the reliability of active gear and I can’t argue against that, but comparing military grade hardware to an MI grade speaker doesn’t seem a fair comparison.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Stephen Kirby on March 07, 2018, 05:09:14 pm

I really don’t doubt that Yamaha does feel secure in their design or it probably wouldn’t have such a good warranty. At the very least, Yamaha has calculated a certain failure rate into the cost of their speaker. I myself have a DBR and also some RCF active. I see first hand the reliability of active gear and I can’t argue against that, but comparing military grade hardware to an MI grade speaker doesn’t seem a fair comparison.
Much of the military reliability testing has filtered down to consumer products.  At least within the name brands.  We don't test a smart speaker for 40,000' altitude performance, but things get shook, thermal cycled and shocked pretty substantially.  Every factory I've been in in China has rel labs with tons of test equipment.  Every time the least little thing in changed, like the supplier for some minor component, the entire protocol is repeated.  Things we had to invent 30 years ago to do reliability tests are now low cost off the shelf.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Aaron Maurer on March 10, 2018, 11:51:30 am
Picked up my DSR112 yesterday from the repair shop. They replaced the circuit board. It’s powered up at this point with no noise. Will be taking the speaker out next week and will follow up if I have an issue.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 21, 2018, 06:57:29 pm
Picked up my DSR112 yesterday from the repair shop. They replaced the circuit board. It’s powered up at this point with no noise. Will be taking the speaker out next week and will follow up if I have an issue.

Good to hear...hope the show went well and that the speaker is back to normal.

My update:
I dropped off my speaker last monday to get it's replacement amp module installed. I called yesterday as I hadn't heard anything and the tech told me it had been waiting for me all week and that he had left a message. I wasn't aware - must have missed the message somehow - but anyway we picked it up today.
I haven't tried it out yet but of course the problem I had before didn't seem to occur till I was using it at a show anyway - so I'll try it this weekend coming. I will bring a spare with me just in case but fingers crossed we are all fixed and this unnecessarily longwinded repair episode is over.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 22, 2018, 08:55:18 am
Good to hear...hope the show went well and that the speaker is back to normal.

My update:
I dropped off my speaker last monday to get it's replacement amp module installed. I called yesterday as I hadn't heard anything and the tech told me it had been waiting for me all week and that he had left a message. I wasn't aware - must have missed the message somehow - but anyway we picked it up today.
I haven't tried it out yet but of course the problem I had before didn't seem to occur till I was using it at a show anyway - so I'll try it this weekend coming. I will bring a spare with me just in case but fingers crossed we are all fixed and this unnecessarily longwinded repair episode is over.
The arduous task of getting the fix done was what really irritated me as well.  Hope everything works out for you Debbie.  I have been waiting to see if things were fixed for you or not.  Good luck this weekend.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 24, 2018, 10:28:28 pm
I am at a show - the same speaker went out in the first song - I AM DONE!!!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Luke Geis on March 25, 2018, 12:38:45 am
That is not promising at all......
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Holtzman on March 25, 2018, 01:52:55 am
That is really disconcerting.



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Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on March 25, 2018, 07:43:39 am
I am at a show - the same speaker went out in the first song - I AM DONE!!!!

I haven't went through the whole post but I'm starting to wonder about a bad driver. A intermittent short in a driver could be giving the built in amp a hard time.  I'd be asking for a entire new speaker replacement.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 25, 2018, 08:59:31 am
Yes - this time I will be insisting on a whole new box. I cannot go through this any longer.
Last night - as per usual it seems of late - I took a spare with me - thank goodness, my PRX712. It was left in the van because we really didn't think we'd need it - so when the speaker went out, I had to go outside in the rain and get the PRX. It put me in a bad mood all night!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Aaron Maurer on March 25, 2018, 09:22:34 am
Really sorry to hear your dilemma continues Debbie.  I ran my recently repaired DSR112 speaker all night with zero issues.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 25, 2018, 03:48:01 pm
Yes - this time I will be insisting on a whole new box. I cannot go through this any longer.
Last night - as per usual it seems of late - I took a spare with me - thank goodness, my PRX712. It was left in the van because we really didn't think we'd need it - so when the speaker went out, I had to go outside in the rain and get the PRX. It put me in a bad mood all night!
So sorry to hear Debbie.

I would definitely request a replacement at this point in time.

My repaired speaker is running fine now clear up to limit.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 25, 2018, 04:20:27 pm
That stinks Debbie. I escalated mine through Email, took Yamaha 2 weeks to get back to me. They say they talked to my service tech and the new module is there and he should be getting it back to me soon. That was a week ago. So like you my original replacement failed on the first outing. So I am thinking there is something causing the modules to fail. Shorted speaker? Bad power supply? I don't know. I'll tell ya one thing if this second module fails I will be looking into some SRX tops
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rob Spence on March 25, 2018, 06:36:26 pm
That stinks Debbie. I escalated mine through Email, took Yamaha 2 weeks to get back to me. They say they talked to my service tech and the new module is there and he should be getting it back to me soon. That was a week ago. So like you my original replacement failed on the first outing. So I am thinking there is something causing the modules to fail. Shorted speaker? Bad power supply? I don't know. I'll tell ya one thing if this second module fails I will be looking into some SRX tops

So far we don’t really know if the module on Debby’s is the failing part. It appears to be a case of do the easiest thing (muck with switch), then the next (electronics module) etc.  There does not seem to be any actual diagnosis here, just guessing. It is pretty clear to me that the tech is not very educated in repairing this model speaker.


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Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Keith Broughton on March 25, 2018, 07:01:32 pm
So far we don’t really know if the module on Debby’s is the failing part. It appears to be a case of do the easiest thing (muck with switch), then the next (electronics module) etc.  There does not seem to be any actual diagnosis here, just guessing. It is pretty clear to me that the tech is not very educated in repairing this model speaker.


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Agreed!
Proper repair diagnostics need to include WHY the failure has happened.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Ed Hall on March 25, 2018, 08:26:12 pm
Agreed!
Proper repair diagnostics need to include WHY the failure has happened.

Unfortunately true diagnostic/troubleshooting is becoming a lost art.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on March 26, 2018, 12:56:44 pm
So, I am a dsr112 user.  I have been using 6 as house or monitors for a couple of years without a hitch.  At the moment I am trying to sell some as I upgraded to RCF coaxial wedges.  This has scared off buyers who now seem to think these are junk and that yamaha service is a total failure.

Is that what we are really finding here?  Or is Debbie's experience an anomaly?  What do I tell buyers?

--Kevin
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 26, 2018, 01:39:26 pm
So, I am a dsr112 user.  I have been using 6 as house or monitors for a couple of years without a hitch.  At the moment I am trying to sell some as I upgraded to RCF coaxial wedges.  This has scared off buyers who now seem to think these are junk and that yamaha service is a total failure.

Is that what we are really finding here?  Or is Debbie's experience an anomaly?  What do I tell buyers?

--Kevin

Yamaha probably has the same number of employees in the USA who handle the MI division as are in the USA pro division... with 1000x more customers and 5000x more product in the field.  For the many thousands of DSR speakers out there we're talking about the problems Debbie and a couple other people are reporting.

Debbie's local service center seems clueless about dealing with Yamaha and lacks experience with the DSR (that's probably an indication they don't service very many - lack of failures?).  Yamaha doesn't have the personnel resources to deal with things quickly.  It's not a good situation but the days of personal service from multinational concerns are already over.  If we want or need the level of attention provided by JTR, Fulcrum, Danley, BassBoss, etc we need to purchase and use their products.  The level of support provided by those and other small manufacturers is top notch partly because they're still small companies - you can get the owner or designer on the phone and resolve any issues quickly.

Like many here, I'm disappointed that Yamaha hasn't put the considerable weight of their operation into helping Debbie solve this publicized issue...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 26, 2018, 02:45:53 pm
If every complaint made online that I have ever read was in itself a true refection of quality of product or company, then I'd NEVER purchase another thing in my life EVER!. Isolated incidences of issues like this are often just that - isolated and surely folks realize that.
I have personally seen very few problems with DSR's documented and that was one of the reasons I bought mine. I would hope that my experience is a rare one and that others do not have to go through the same craziness as me.
As I type this I am on hold with Yamaha in CA.........
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 26, 2018, 03:08:53 pm
Just spoke with Desmond after a 23 minute hold who told me this will be escalated to the 'level 2 tech' dealing with this issue.
I insisted on a whole box replacement this time. Apparently someone will be calling me back......stay tuned.
Title: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bob Charest on March 26, 2018, 03:25:36 pm
Just spoke with Desmond after a 23 minute hold who told me this will be escalated to the 'level 2 tech' dealing with this issue.
I insisted on a whole box replacement this time. Apparently someone will be calling me back......stay tuned.

Hi Debbie,

They should honor your request after this long, frustrating series of events.

The lapses in communication from your local tech are also something Yamaha should check into.

A google search for Yamaha DSR112 failures brings up a number of PSW threads, with yours among them.

I would think Yamaha would want to staunch the bleeding on this, but maybe it’s not worth it to them - Which would be a pity.

I’ve been happy with the Yamaha gear I’ve owned, and the one time service was required, timeframes were accurately communicated, and I never felt like I had to chase them for a status.

When I got the gear returned, a complete list/ explanation of what was done returned with it... And we never had a problem with it after that.

Best of luck with this!

Bob Charest



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Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on March 26, 2018, 04:51:57 pm
Apologies if this has already been addressed, but does it make any sense to carry a spare amp module for the DSR112? Are they prohibitively expensive?

I know that this forum only represents a small slice of DSR112 users as a whole, but there does seem to be a high percentage of  failure in our little group - mostly centered around the amp module.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 26, 2018, 09:14:03 pm
Apologies if this has already been addressed, but does it make any sense to carry a spare amp module for the DSR112? Are they prohibitively expensive?

I know that this forum only represents a small slice of DSR112 users as a whole, but there does seem to be a high percentage of  failure in our little group - mostly centered around the amp module.
My speaker had a problem with the woofer.  I would also note that my problem was mostly insignificant, since it was audible only at high SPL at a single frequency.

I am not sure we can conclude that Debbie's DSR is failing due to an amp module if they have really replaced it and it failed immediately.

I am sure that if I were Debbie, I would no longer care WHAT the root cause was.  I would simply want a NEW speaker to end my ordeal.

On the subject of reliability, if you do actually search around for DSR failures, you find very few.  You can find more failures from other makes in the same price range than you can DSR's; however, based on my own observations only, QSC and JBL speakers also vastly outnumber DSR's .... and even DXR's really.  I realize this isn't scientific in any way.  My point is that I suspect that QSC and JBL ..... while you may find quite a few more failures reported on forums, also sell more speakers compared to Yamaha.

I kind of chalk this up to the fact that Yamaha speakers are simply not as well marketed as QSC, JBL .... and even Mackie.

From my own point of view, my DSR's have been very very reliable and have never failed me at either a band gig, or a DJ event I have done.  Not once in 7 years.  One had a "buzz" that ended up being a bad driver, but honestly, it could have been there from day 1 for all I know.  It took me forever to come up with a way to reproduce it so I could actually get it fixed.

My problem isn't with the DSR speaker design.  I actually think they did a pretty good job.  My problem is that the techs I found were not able to fix my problem, I had to drive over 1 hour each way to a repair shop 5 times total (10 hours of driving), and the Yamaha warranty department tried to get out of the warranty telling the tech that the speaker was only  5 years (vs 7).  I would like to think that this was simply a poorly trained person at Yamaha and that it is unusual for the tech to have to get a PDF link from the customer to send to the Yamaha rep to get them to honor the warranty.  I'm going to go with poorly trained as the reason for this unless I hear of it happening again.

Still, I agree.  I would think that Yamaha would want to nip this bad publicity in the bud and for the love of God and all that's holy, make Debbies world right and just ship the poor girl a speaker.

Just to end on a good note, I love my DSR speakers.  They sound amazing.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 26, 2018, 10:52:29 pm

Still, I agree.  I would think that Yamaha would want to nip this bad publicity in the bud and for the love of God and all that's holy, make Debbies world right and just ship the poor girl a speaker.


YES YES YES - for heavens sake - YES

Just to end on a good note, I love my DSR speakers.  They sound amazing.

YES YES YES - they really do (when they work  ;) )
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Pat Semeraro on March 26, 2018, 10:55:52 pm
one of my DSR112's wasn't working

Actually read all 18 pages of this thread... its difficult to not get angry on your behalf!

1) This is show gear - we are not talking about a home-use leaf blower.  This is a work tool. Show gear needs to work reliably and if it does fail, the failure needs to be treated by the manufacturer as the mission-critical issue that it is.
2) If a manufacturer has a lower "non-critical" tier of warranty support for prosumer gear, they need to state that clearly.
3) As a consumer we need to be realistic.  It is imperative to have a spare for something like a powered speaker.  Even Meyer UPAs can fail, it's the operators responsibility to be prepared.
4) We also have to be realistic about prosumer gear.  Open up a piece of pro gear and look inside at the brand of capacitors, brand of opamps, gauge of wire, presence of heat sinks, thickness of circuit board traces, number of screws holding it together, etc., then do the same with a prosumer piece.  Capacitors alone can tell much of the story.  The Nichicon/CDE/IC capacitors alone used in a  pro power amp can cost more than an entire amp module on a prosumer powered speaker. 
5) Continuing with #4, if you add up the cost of a good pair of passive tops (Think JBL SRX), good rack dsp (thinkDriverack 260 or better) two good quality power amps (Think CrestPro, QSC PowerLight) you'll find that JBL VP, EAW NT, Meyer UPA, etc. are reasonably priced.  Anything less expensive than that has to be full of compromises.  That doesn't mean prosumer is always a bad choice - quite the opposite!  I like the DSR112 and think it sounds distinctly better than other boxes in its price range but if the pro boxes fail, then certainly a DSR box will fail, guaranteed.  Its just a matter of when.

As a consumer you should NEVER EVER have to chase a manufacturer around to get them to honor a printed warranty.  Life is short and time is valuable.  Why would anyone support a manufacturer who believes your time has no value?  Why would anyone support a manufacturer that doesn't believe they owe you, without struggle, a working version of the item you paid for? 

The final point is that good rental houses "fleet" maintenance their gear, and during that maintenance quite often find the early markers of future failure.  (Loose connections, questionable wiring, speakers with cone/spider/voice coil/lead wire issues.  Hi frequency driver diaphragms are known to fatigue over their lifetime and should be replaced as scheduled maintenance, even if they seem to work fine.  (I used to replace every 5 years.)   Its possible that lots of prosumer gear is never treated to "fleet" maintenance, hence failures are discovered during sound check.

Maybe manufacturers could do a better job of helping consumers understand the maintenance needs of their gear?  That would potentially prevent a lot of heartbreak.

I actually considered the DSR112 for rental inventory and thought they sounded quite good, hinting at some of the qualities of professional boxes.  In particular, they didn't sound all jumbled together and in your face, like most plastic boxes with cheap drivers and heavy-handed dsp.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on March 27, 2018, 10:04:03 am
All - as usual, thanks for the discussion and Pat your comments especially.

Debbie - I really hope you get satisfaction soon.   It just should not be as difficult as you have had it.

--Kevin
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Geert Friedhof on March 27, 2018, 08:03:47 pm
There is a reason why certain companies have a strict rule who reprensants them.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 27, 2018, 08:10:02 pm
No call today - day 1 ( or should I say day 78?) ...and so I patiently wait....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Geert Friedhof on March 27, 2018, 08:31:50 pm
Oh well, it took the japanese about 20 years to produce a half decent car. It might take another 20 years to get their service up and running.

I have never been impressed by the yamaha service.

And i love the rev's they made.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on March 27, 2018, 08:47:05 pm
I almost feel like we should take up a collection and just buy Debbie a new speaker.
Then she can pour some lighter fluid on the offender, and post a video.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Al Poulin on March 28, 2018, 08:08:37 am
No call today - day 1 ( or should I say day 78?) ...and so I patiently wait....

I got some excellent service from Yamaha Canada... While on one of my smaller Yorkville speaker stands, one of my DXR8s was knocked over and slammed to the floor. It was a 5 year old unit. Brought it to Long & Mcquade who wasn't sure it would be covered as it was not really Yamaha's fault, but they sent it out and sure enough I received it in roughly 2 weeks with a new woofer and no charge. Apparently, the magnet had actually completely seperated from the woofer! In my 5+ years of using DXR8s, DXR15s and DXS12 subs, this is the first time I needed service, so I was happy it was handled perfectly - although I would have understood if Yamaha would have not covered this particular repair...

Al   
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Chuck Simon on March 28, 2018, 10:43:51 am
Please delete
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 29, 2018, 03:59:07 pm
Still not heard back. I just sent a message through the Yamaha website with a link to this thread advising them that the slow erosion to Yamaha's reputation is something they might want to stop ASAP.

Bill??....... it might be time. I think I have been more than patient as next monday makes 12 weeks since it was 'repaired'  and 13 weeks since the speaker last worked. I would appreciate any help I can get at this point
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 29, 2018, 05:18:09 pm
Still not heard back. I just sent a message through the Yamaha website with a link to this thread advising them that the slow erosion to Yamaha's reputation is something they might want to stop ASAP.

Bill??....... it might be time. I think I have been more than patient as next monday makes 12 weeks since it was 'repaired'  and 13 weeks since the speaker last worked. I would appreciate any help I can get at this point

An hour later Robert from Yamaha called me. He is sending me a shipping label to get the defective speaker sent to them and he is sending me a brand new one.......I am a bit emotional right now.....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: dave briar on March 29, 2018, 06:42:06 pm
An hour later Robert from Yamaha called me. He is sending me a shipping label to get the defective speaker sent to them and he is sending me a brand new one.......I am a bit emotional right now.....
Well damn Debbie!  You certainly deserve it. Finally!!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 29, 2018, 06:58:36 pm
An hour later Robert from Yamaha called me. He is sending me a shipping label to get the defective speaker sent to them and he is sending me a brand new one.......I am a bit emotional right now.....

Now now, I'm sure they'll give your old friend a proper send off before the recycling bin...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 29, 2018, 07:04:03 pm
Now now, I'm sure they'll give your old friend a proper send off before the recycling bin...

I'd like to think so Tim ....... I'd like to think so....   :'(
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rick Powell on March 29, 2018, 07:12:23 pm
I'd like to think so Tim ....... I'd like to think so....   :'(

A sigh of relief from more than a few LAB Loungers, I'm sure. If for nothing else, this forum is valuable in functioning as a support group for when things go wrong, as well as a resource of "who to go to" more than a few times. I was directed to Bennett Prescott when I had a cracked magnet on a B&C driver and he was very helpful and got me a new warranty replacement from Parts Express.

And I'm sure Yamaha saw the name "Bill" in this thread when you alerted them to it, and figured they'd better cut their losses quick!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Pluke on March 29, 2018, 07:27:28 pm
An hour later Robert from Yamaha called me. He is sending me a shipping label to get the defective speaker sent to them and he is sending me a brand new one.......

Preaching to the choir here, but, it REALLY shouldn't take this much time and effort to get satisfactory service from a reputable manufacturer.

Glad you're on the path to a resolution, Debbie!

Dave
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Geert Friedhof on March 29, 2018, 09:33:08 pm
Regarding targeted marketing... This is one f#4kup.
It will take some effort to make up for the bad rap, and rightly so.

Not important and a liitle of topic: I had a Rev500 with a faulty rotary encoder. Yamaha would't tell me what kind of encoder, but quoted me 120 euroos for a (5? euro) replacement. Oh well, we all have to make a living i guess..

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 12:25:09 am
Robert is also the one who emailed me saying the service center has my part and it would be ready to go..That was 10 days ago. I am emailing him back right now and pointing out this thread. I am happy for you Debbie, now lets hope they do the same for me, because mine has been out of service a lot longer than yours has been.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 12:36:06 am
Robert is also the one who emailed me saying the service center has my part and it would be ready to go..That was 10 days ago. I am emailing him back right now and pointing out this thread. I am happy for you Debbie, now lets hope they do the same for me, because mine has been out of service a lot longer than yours has been.

I'm sorry Kevin. That is a long time to be having problems. I can't believe yours hasn't been in yet for repair. I hope Robert or someone at Yamaha gets you sorted out very soon.  I'm still not holding my breath over mine until the new speaker is in my possession and is 100% working order.....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 12:49:17 am
I'm sorry Kevin. That is a long time to be having problems. I can't believe yours hasn't been in yet for repair. I hope Robert or someone at Yamaha gets you sorted out very soon.  I'm still not holding my breath over mine until the new speaker is in my possession and is 100% working order.....
I hear ya Debbie, I Just finished my Email and mentioned that it was on your recommendation that I purchased these speakers, and should be afforded the same service as you, I also linked this thread. Hope you don't mind? lol I am just so fed up, I told them I will never trust the repaired speaker again.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mike Monte on March 30, 2018, 07:32:31 am
I hear ya Debbie, I Just finished my Email and mentioned that it was on your recommendation that I purchased these speakers, and should be afforded the same service as you, I also linked this thread. Hope you don't mind? lol I am just so fed up, I told them I will never trust the repaired speaker again.

FWIW: My 2018 plan is to switch over to active monitors....  I do own two QSC K8's (original series) that I use for wedding ceremony officiants' lav mic'ing.  I did have a problem with one of them a few years ago...I let my son use it for a function at his Fraternity in Boston... I brought it to ATR Treehouse in Providence, RI (a QSC repair site)and it was repaired under warranty plus I had it back in a week.  The cab has been bullet-proof since.

For my switch-over to actives I need 4 matching units.  I was going Yamaha but your fiasco with Yamaha service has nixed that idea. 
Hey, stuff breaks, I-get-it, but shoddy service and associated runaround.... is a deal breaker to me.

I guess that I'll go the QSC route.  At least I know that they stand behind their products. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 12:14:46 pm
Just heard back from Robert, He is sending me a new speaker also!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 12:18:53 pm
FWIW: My 2018 plan is to switch over to active monitors....  I do own two QSC K8's (original series) that I use for wedding ceremony officiants' lav mic'ing.  I did have a problem with one of them a few years ago...I let my son use it for a function at his Fraternity in Boston... I brought it to ATR Treehouse in Providence, RI (a QSC repair site)and it was repaired under warranty plus I had it back in a week.  The cab has been bullet-proof since.

For my switch-over to actives I need 4 matching units.  I was going Yamaha but your fiasco with Yamaha service has nixed that idea. 
Hey, stuff breaks, I-get-it, but shoddy service and associated runaround.... is a deal breaker to me.

I guess that I'll go the QSC route.  At least I know that they stand behind their products.

If only Yamaha had stepped in and done the right thing early on.... just shows how much damage can be done by these things being drawn out. This is a shame because IMHO the DSR's are FAR superior in sound to the K series speakers. However, QSC do a good job in aftercare.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 30, 2018, 12:19:13 pm
I am glad to hear that Yamaha is stepping up and correcting this service problem.

Debbie, I am with you.  Even after they agreed to replace my woofer, I waited to celebrate until I had the speaker in my own hands, and had tested it myself.  I am glad they are sending you a new speaker.  One would think that would be the end of this story line for you :)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 12:20:02 pm
Just heard back from Robert, He is sending me a new speaker also!

Good to hear Kevin!.... However, I am still waiting for the pre paid label that he said he would email me - so don't hold your breath!!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 12:25:21 pm
I am glad to hear that Yamaha is stepping up and correcting this service problem.

Debbie, I am with you.  Even after they agreed to replace my woofer, I waited to celebrate until I had the speaker in my own hands, and had tested it myself.  I am glad they are sending you a new speaker.  One would think that would be the end of this story line for you :)

One would think so but I'm going wait and check back once I get the new one so I can put this to bed!.. Like I said to Kevin... now the wait to get the pre paid label.
I think the plan is to get mine back before they ship the new one. I say that because of the way he was talking and the fact he asked me if I had the original shipping box for mine- which I do. Surely this wouldn't matter becasue I could use the one they send the new one to me in.
I just assumed he needed mine back first but he didn't make it clear and I was happy to hear the words, " I will send you a new speaker" so I didn't ask or clarify.

Kevin- did he tell you he was sending the new one right away???
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Pluke on March 30, 2018, 12:36:14 pm
I just assumed he needed mine back first but he didn't make it clear and I was happy to hear the words, " I will send you a new speaker" so I didn't ask or clarify.

Shouldn't be required.  Most reputable companies will cross ship replacements.  That said, it IS reasonable for them to ask for a cc deposit to assure the defective unit is returned.

It seems that Retailers are more sensitive to Customer Service than are Manufacturers.  They recognize the potential loss in revenue one (rightfully) disgruntled Customer can represent.

Dave
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 12:46:12 pm
Shouldn't be required.  Most reputable companies will cross ship replacements.  That said, it IS reasonable for them to ask for a cc deposit to assure the defective unit is returned.

It seems that Retailers are more sensitive to Customer Service than are Manufacturers.  They recognize the potential loss in revenue one (rightfully) disgruntled Customer can represent.

Dave

Oh then maybe the new one has shipped or is shipping. I can't send mine back till I have the shipping label but it is all boxed up and ready to go.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 30, 2018, 12:48:46 pm
If only Yamaha had stepped in and done the right thing early on.... just shows how much damage can be done by these things being drawn out. This is a shame because IMHO the DSR's are FAR superior in sound to the K series speakers. However, QSC do a good job in aftercare.
To my ears, the DSR's are superior to everything in their price range, and equal to speakers costing more .... and in some cases much more.  They also have crazy amounts of output.

When testing my new woofer at the store, I brought the level up until it started clipping.  The techs in the store were amazed.  All of our clothing was shaking with each impact at that point.  The DSR's really put out the sound.

The company that I work for also must rely on representatives in other companies for our support of products.  It is frustrating when your reps don't do a good job for you because your company reputation takes the hit.  I suspect that Yamaha has similar trials.

Still, in my case, the lack of understanding of their own warranty period was kind of annoying.  That wasn't the rep, that was Yamaha.  They should provide training to their level 1 support team to ensure they have a reliable source of information regarding the warranty coverage of each product so this kind of thing doesn't happen.  It is seriously embarrassing when a customer like myself has to send an e-mail link to a Yamaha web site document to clarify the warranty coverage of a Yamaha product.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 01:03:38 pm
I was just thinking.... I wonder how long it will be if ever, that I stop taking a back up speaker with me to shows - now I am paranoid- thank you Yamaha!!.
Never felt the need to in all these past years that I have been using powered speakers till the Yamaha DSR saga, but now I'm thinking is it perhaps a good habit to get into?
When I was passive I always had the flexibility to bridge an amp or do something else creative with what I had ( Yes- Bob I know) but makes you think....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 01:07:26 pm


Kevin- did he tell you he was sending the new one right away???
He just asked for confirmation of the serial number and my shipping address so he could send me the new one. He said he would dispatch the old one since it is still at the service center. We will see, Service center still has my home made cover that ill have to get back from him.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Holtzman on March 30, 2018, 01:30:22 pm
This thread has almost 15k views.  That's not insignificant considering the hits would probably all be from qualified potential customers.  30k speakers is 2.4M in sales.

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 01:36:56 pm
He just asked for confirmation of the serial number and my shipping address so he could send me the new one. He said he would dispatch the old one since it is still at the service center. We will see, Service center still has my home made cover that ill have to get back from him.

He did confirm my address too. If in fact he has already shipped (or arranged for shipping of) the replacement, he ought to get me that label for the return ASAP because I am not going to chase him any longer once I get mine. They can do the work now - I'm tired of it...

Kevin - I hope you get back your cover.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 02:05:26 pm
He did confirm my address too. If in fact he has already shipped (or arranged for shipping of) the replacement, he ought to get me that label for the return ASAP because I am not going to chase him any longer once I get mine. They can do the work now - I'm tired of it...

Kevin - I hope you get back your cover.
Maybe they send it in the box with the new one?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 02:15:33 pm
Maybe they send it in the box with the new one?

Hadn't though of that. ...maybe..
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tom Roche on March 30, 2018, 02:50:25 pm
This thread has almost 15k views.  That's not insignificant considering the hits would probably all be from qualified potential customers.  30k speakers is 2.4M in sales.

I've watched this thread from the start to see how Yamaha responds.  I love the sound of my QSC HPR112i speakers, but they're rather heavy at 60 lbs.  The DSR appears to be a good replacement box, though I wish they had side handles.  I'm holding off until I see how this plays out.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Pat Semeraro on March 30, 2018, 03:13:21 pm
I've watched this thread from the start to see how Yamaha responds.  I love the sound of my QSC HPR112i speakers, but they're rather heavy at 60 lbs.  The DSR appears to be a good replacement box, though I wish they had side handles.  I'm holding off until I see how this plays out.

Tom,
Consider that QSC tests durability by throwing things off the roof of their 3d story building then tests to see if it still meets factory spec.  If not, its redesigned until it does.   Opinions about QSC sound quality differ but their reliability is often rated as the very best in the industry. I'm not shilling for them but they do stand apart in how they design and build gear.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Holtzman on March 30, 2018, 03:42:47 pm
Tom,
Consider that QSC tests durability by throwing things off the roof of their 3d story building then tests to see if it still meets factory spec.  If not, its redesigned until it does.   Opinions about QSC sound quality differ but their reliability is often rated as the very best in the industry. I'm not shilling for them but they do stand apart in how they design and build gear.

I schill for them all the time.  We have done really well with our QSC gear and have gone from one pair of subs and tops to the largest QSC inventory in Cleveland.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Robert Lofgren on March 30, 2018, 04:32:20 pm
In the late 90’s I bought my first yamaha amp, It was a p4500.

During its first gig one channel started to self-oscillate and it took out every driver for that channel. The amp was repaired under warranty but I had to pay for the repair of the speakers myself. Initially they told me that they were going to help me with my speakers but they turned the back on me referring me to the small print where damages to other gear wasn’t going to be reimbursed.

I was not a happy yamaha customer...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on March 30, 2018, 05:00:04 pm
In the late 90’s I bought my first yamaha amp, It was a p4500.

During its first gig one channel started to self-oscillate and it took out every driver for that channel. The amp was repaired under warranty but I had to pay for the repair of the speakers myself. Initially they told me that they were going to help me with my speakers but they turned the back on me referring me to the small print where damages to other gear wasn’t going to be reimbursed.

I was not a happy yamaha customer...

This "small print" is in there for almost every audio product.  I do wonder, now that amplifiers and passive speakers are being sold together as "systems", if they will still try to pull that nonsense.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mike Karseboom on March 30, 2018, 05:34:13 pm
I've watched this thread from the start to see how Yamaha responds.  I love the sound of my QSC HPR112i speakers, but they're rather heavy at 60 lbs.  The DSR appears to be a good replacement box, though I wish they had side handles.  I'm holding off until I see how this plays out.


I was going to buy a pair of used HPR112i speakers recently and called QSC support to ask about replacement parts.  They had replacement amps, replacement drivers, and even compression driver formers.   Super impressive for a box this old.


The guy wanted $400 a box for them in average condition which was a little more than I wanted to pay, so I did not get them.  If parts were not available I would not even consider them.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Holtzman on March 30, 2018, 05:54:40 pm

I was going to buy a pair of used HPR112i speakers recently and called QSC support to ask about replacement parts.  They had replacement amps, replacement drivers, and even compression driver formers.   Super impressive for a box this old.


The guy wanted $400 a box for them in average condition which was a little more than I wanted to pay, so I did not get them.  If parts were not available I would not even consider them.

$400 for an HPR112 in working condition is a good deal.

They are heavy, only real downside.

 If they are still available can you pass along the lead. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Garris on March 30, 2018, 05:57:27 pm
FWIW: My 2018 plan is to switch over to active monitors....  I do own two QSC K8's (original series) that I use for wedding ceremony officiants' lav mic'ing.  I did have a problem with one of them a few years ago...I let my son use it for a function at his Fraternity in Boston... I brought it to ATR Treehouse in Providence, RI (a QSC repair site)and it was repaired under warranty plus I had it back in a week.  The cab has been bullet-proof since.

For my switch-over to actives I need 4 matching units.  I was going Yamaha but your fiasco with Yamaha service has nixed that idea. 
Hey, stuff breaks, I-get-it, but shoddy service and associated runaround.... is a deal breaker to me.

I guess that I'll go the QSC route.  At least I know that they stand behind their products.

I use the DSR's for wedges with my rig, but many clubs I work at have the K12's. I'm always impressed by the K12 as a monitor. Great output, lots of gain and the sound (set flat) really cuts through in the vocal range. Not a bad wedge IMO.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tom Roche on March 30, 2018, 07:21:38 pm
Tom,
Consider that QSC tests durability by throwing things off the roof of their 3d story building then tests to see if it still meets factory spec.  If not, its redesigned until it does.  Opinions about QSC sound quality differ but their reliability is often rated as the very best in the industry. I'm not shilling for them but they do stand apart in how they design and build gear.

The 'ol Dave Letterman trick.  ;D 
Durability is exactly why I'm a fan of QSC speakers.  At their price point—when they were current—HPRs were one of the better sounding boxes.  I prefer them over the KW series.  They never fail to impress, even when pushed extra hard.  To be fair, I was very impressed when I heard a pair of DSR15s in action at an outdoor event.  They sounded really good.  So, the important questions re Yamaha and the DSRs are 1) are they durable and 2) how responsive is Yamaha re service and warranty?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 07:58:42 pm
The 'ol Dave Letterman trick.  ;D 
Durability is exactly why I'm a fan of QSC speakers.  At their price point—when they were current—HPRs were one of the better sounding boxes.  I prefer them over the KW series.  They never fail to impress, even when pushed extra hard.  To be fair, I was very impressed when I heard a pair of DSR15s in action at an outdoor event.  They sounded really good.  So, the important questions re Yamaha and the DSRs are 1) are they durable and 2) how responsive is Yamaha re service and warranty?

You must mean DXR15.... There is no DSR 15".
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 08:00:53 pm
The 'ol Dave Letterman trick.  ;D 
Durability is exactly why I'm a fan of QSC speakers.  At their price point—when they were current—HPRs were one of the better sounding boxes.  I prefer them over the KW series.  They never fail to impress, even when pushed extra hard.  To be fair, I was very impressed when I heard a pair of DSR15s in action at an outdoor event.  They sounded really good.  So, the important questions re Yamaha and the DSRs are 1) are they durable and 2) how responsive is Yamaha re service and warranty?

I will say this about my DSR's and Yamaha, I have had them since May 2015 and they have been flawless till last June. So 2 years and probably in the neighborhood of 50-60 shows (I am  a weekend warrior). When mine went in June of last year I had it back in about 2 weeks. Yamaha was quick to approve the repairs. The second failure was on the first use of the repaired speaker. Again Yamaha was fast to Approve, but supposedly the board was on back order. I was very patient, 1) because I had a big show after the first failure and just went ahead and purchased another one, 2) My festival season had wound down.

 I had not heard from the service center and he has been very responsive so I knew he still didn't have it. After I saw Deb's failure I emailed them and got a response 2 weeks later saying they had talked with the service center and they had received the board and it would be ready for pickup soon. It has been 10 days so I emailed Robert back last night and he approved a new speaker by 10am this morning. So as far as I am concerned they have made it right with me, but ill be 100% satisfied when the new speaker is in my possession. I won't give up on them that easily only because of how wonderful these speakers sound, they sound superior to my K10's in every way, the vocal clarity is amazing. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on March 30, 2018, 08:01:56 pm
You must mean DXR15.... There is no DSR 15".
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSR115--yamaha-dsr115-1300w-15-inch-powered-speaker (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSR115--yamaha-dsr115-1300w-15-inch-powered-speaker)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on March 30, 2018, 08:08:59 pm
It's DSR115.
I have both.
The 15's work better as a stand alone, the 12's with subs.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 30, 2018, 08:39:04 pm
The 'ol Dave Letterman trick.  ;D 
Durability is exactly why I'm a fan of QSC speakers.  At their price point—when they were current—HPRs were one of the better sounding boxes.  I prefer them over the KW series.  They never fail to impress, even when pushed extra hard.  To be fair, I was very impressed when I heard a pair of DSR15s in action at an outdoor event.  They sounded really good.  So, the important questions re Yamaha and the DSRs are 1) are they durable and 2) how responsive is Yamaha re service and warranty?

I recently worked with an act that used DXR15 as monitors for the bass player.  As loud as his SVT was already I'm not sure why, but he "needs them."  He found the power alley and mostly stayed there.  There was no bass in the PA mix (except for a bit of subwoofer feed) in a 700 capacity room.  The DXR15 impressed me.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 08:42:03 pm
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSR115--yamaha-dsr115-1300w-15-inch-powered-speaker (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSR115--yamaha-dsr115-1300w-15-inch-powered-speaker)


Oops...no idea why I said that - I'm tired and other excuses.....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 30, 2018, 08:44:43 pm
I used to have pair of DXR15's (probably why i brain farted) and they were nice speakers - just didn't use them enough as I always seem to use subs so I sold them on - but they sounded great...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jeff Lelko on March 30, 2018, 09:07:29 pm
$400 for an HPR112 in working condition is a good deal.

+1.  All my QSC HPR boxes are nearly 10 years old but in 10/10 functional and 7/10 or better cosmetic condition.  I wouldn't think of letting them go for any less than that.  They've never skipped a beat and are one of the best business investments I've made thus far. 

On topic, glad to hear you are finally getting a replacement speaker Debbie!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Al Poulin on March 30, 2018, 10:10:54 pm
I recently worked with an act that used DXR15 as monitors for the bass player.  As loud as his SVT was already I'm not sure why, but he "needs them."  He found the power alley and mostly stayed there.  There was no bass in the PA mix (except for a bit of subwoofer feed) in a 700 capacity room.  The DXR15 impressed me.

I've been using my DXR15s for over 5 years now - mostly DJ applications (weddings etc.) but some live sound as well. They sound great out of the box and they get seriously loud (considering their price)- it take quite a bit of signal before getting the limit light to blink. I've only seem them blink a few times so far to be honest. Great for smaller gigs where you don't want (or need to) bring subs. Finish on the DXR cabs is very fragile however, so covers are a must IMO. Mixer section is super flexible too.

Al

Al
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on March 31, 2018, 09:46:33 am
+1.  All my QSC HPR boxes are nearly 10 years old but in 10/10 functional and 7/10 or better cosmetic condition.  I wouldn't think of letting them go for any less than that.  They've never skipped a beat and are one of the best business investments I've made thus far. 

On topic, glad to hear you are finally getting a replacement speaker Debbie!

I built my business in the beginning on HPR122s & 181s. My 10 HPR122s have been bullet proof. They're about to get a new coat of paint and new diaphragms after 10 years of use. I had one of the 181s with a blown speaker (rental) and that's it. Best ROI in my inventory, without question. I've followed this thread with interest as I've read such glowing reviews on the DSR stuff. Debbie's saga is truly a shame and would certainly cause me reservations about buying the DSRs. I get that a local service center can wreak havoc in a situation like this, but the poor response from the manufacturer does not sit well at all. I hope Debbie's issues are finally resolved.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 31, 2018, 11:17:20 am
I am surprised that not one single person from Yamaha has  addressed this thread - either on the forum itself or with a message  to me. Doesn't anyone at Yamaha care about the damage to their reputation at all? I have seen other company representives (namely Uli Behringer himself) jump in on forum threads to try to quell the bleeding but in 233 posts not one single comment. This surprises me.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rob Spence on March 31, 2018, 12:07:34 pm
I am surprised that not one single person from Yamaha has  addressed this thread - either on the forum itself or with a message  to me. Doesn't anyone at Yamaha care about the damage to their reputation at all? I have seen other company representives (namely Uli Behringer himself) jump in on forum threads to try to quell the bleeding but in 233 posts not one single comment. This surprises me.

I am not surprised. Many companies have a policy to not participate in these sort of forums. I believe Yamaha Commercial is one of them.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on March 31, 2018, 01:31:44 pm
I am not surprised. Many companies have a policy to not participate in these sort of forums. I believe Yamaha Commercial is one of them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah, but this forum doesn't suck.  What's the opposite of suck? ::)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on April 01, 2018, 01:13:30 am
Get this, service center called this morning and said my speaker was ready. What the hell? I told him they are sending me a new one, and ill bring you the box when I get it to send the old one back lol
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 01, 2018, 09:07:01 am
Get this, service center called this morning and said my speaker was ready. What the hell? I told him they are sending me a new one, and ill bring you the box when I get it to send the old one back lol
Mmmm... someone forgot to tell the service center that you were getting a replacement.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: John Fruits on April 01, 2018, 10:27:56 am
I think it's time, seems to me the main issue here is this:
https://youtu.be/452XjnaHr1A
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Gordon Brinton on April 01, 2018, 12:19:10 pm
I built my business in the beginning on HPR122s & 181s. My 10 HPR122s have been bullet proof. They're about to get a new coat of paint and new diaphragms after 10 years of use. I had one of the 181s with a blown speaker (rental) and that's it. Best ROI in my inventory, without question. I've followed this thread with interest as I've read such glowing reviews on the DSR stuff. Debbie's saga is truly a shame and would certainly cause me reservations about buying the DSRs. I get that a local service center can wreak havoc in a situation like this, but the poor response from the manufacturer does not sit well at all. I hope Debbie's issues are finally resolved.

Gary, I'll be using my DSR system this coming weekend, (April 7,) in Carlisle if you would like to hear them in action.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 02, 2018, 08:22:48 am
Gary, I'll be using my DSR system this coming weekend, (April 7,) in Carlisle if you would like to hear them in action.

Of course, I have a show in Reading on the 7th. Where's your event? Depending on the time, I may be able to check them out. Thanks for the invite!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Scarlett on April 02, 2018, 10:16:42 am
Long before QSC and Letterman we we're tossing equipment from the roof at Traynor now Yorkville, that was in the mid '60's. Also down a flight of stairs too.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Pedd on April 02, 2018, 11:00:19 am
Long before QSC and Letterman we we're tossing equipment from the roof at Traynor now Yorkville, that was in the mid '60's. Also down a flight of stairs too.

Rookies.

This company shoots them with shotguns and sets them on fire.

https://www.technomad.com/videos/
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Scarlett on April 02, 2018, 12:15:25 pm
Potatoes, I'm talkin' meat!

"The renowned “Traynor Drop,” a quality and endurance test that utilized a 5-metre high loading ramp and a hefty push. If the unit still worked after the broken tubes were replaced, it went into production."

It would seem Yamaha and others could improve their warrantee too:

Two and Ten Year Unlimited Warranty
Traynor's two and ten-year unlimited warranty on this product is transferable and does not require registration with Traynor Amplifiers or your dealer. If this product should fail for any reason within two years of the original purchase date (ten years for the wooden enclosure), simply return it to your Traynor dealer with original proof of purchase and it will be repaired free of charge.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on April 02, 2018, 01:24:29 pm
Has it begun?

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167001.0/topicseen.html
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Michael Grimaila on April 02, 2018, 01:31:20 pm
You must mean DXR15.... There is no DSR 15".

That's interesting since I have had a pair of DSR 15's for a few years :)

Michael
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tom Roche on April 02, 2018, 01:59:12 pm
Sorry, I meant DSR115.  I suppose leaving off one "1" threw some for a loop.  ;D   I think what impressed me most about the DSRs was the sound of the horns.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 02, 2018, 05:53:37 pm
Has it begun?

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167001.0/topicseen.html
I won't be selling mine ;)

$650 sounds decent for a good DSR112 though.  Keep in mind, I don't think the warranty transfers.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on April 02, 2018, 06:45:41 pm
I won't be selling mine ;)

$650 sounds decent for a good DSR112 though.  Keep in mind, I don't think the warranty transfers.

Based on this thread, we're not sure if the warranty even transfers to the original owner :o
Keeping mine!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Jeff Lelko on April 02, 2018, 07:50:24 pm
Rookies.

This company shoots them with shotguns and sets them on fire.

https://www.technomad.com/videos/

I've seen X-Laser do the same thing.  Quite impressive to literally barbecue a unit and see it still work!  While the videos of speakers being thrown from roofs and lasers being cooked are entertaining, it's nice to know that your products are both built to last and built to handle life on the road.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 02, 2018, 07:52:46 pm
That's interesting since I have had a pair of DSR 15's for a few years :)

Michael

Not really - I already covered this - I had a brain fart:


Oops...no idea why I said that - I'm tired and other excuses.....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Mike Monte on April 02, 2018, 11:20:23 pm
Based on this thread, we're not sure if the warranty even transfers to the original owner :o
Keeping mine!
+1
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Gordon Brinton on April 03, 2018, 09:33:14 am
Of course, I have a show in Reading on the 7th. Where's your event? Depending on the time, I may be able to check them out. Thanks for the invite!

I didn't want to hijack Debbie's thread so, PM sent.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 03, 2018, 10:33:52 am
I'm trying to get any information I can regarding when that replacement speaker is coming. I am using a chat session on the website - I thought it might be quicker than the phone hold time.
I was told when I signed in that the wait time was 6.18 minutes and that I am second in the queue. Clock is showing 24:32 minutes on hold...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 03, 2018, 10:44:02 am
I was told that an email with a shipping label was sent to my email yesterday - which I never received (surprise surprise).... so I asked for a resend and - I now have it. I asked if they will be cross shipping the replacement one and was told I will have to wait till they receive this one back.......Why am I not surprised??
Now I can't get the bad one sent out till the coming weekend so more wait time......
But keeping positive - small steps, small steps.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: John Fruits on April 03, 2018, 11:43:08 am
Hmmmmmm, how many times have you not received messages and how many times haven't you received emails they claimed to have sent, especially after confirming your email.  I would think that if someone's job entailed providing product support via phone and online, that perhaps they shouldn't hire people who seem to frequently have issues returning phone calls and sending emails. 
Furthermore, my Mr. Snarkypants persona insists on pointing out that yes, it has a 7 year warranty, but resolution for any problems might take 6 years and 13 months. 
Fingers crossed for you and by the way, I say they owe you some serious swag.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on April 03, 2018, 12:18:46 pm
Unfortunately, the T-shirt they send will say:
"I sent my DSR in for warranty and all I got was this ##!@ T-shirt!"
 ::)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 03, 2018, 02:30:20 pm
Unfortunately, the T-shirt they send will say:
"I sent my DSR in for warranty and all I got was this ##!@ T-shirt!"
 ::)

 ;D
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 03, 2018, 02:30:48 pm
Hmmmmmm, how many times have you not received messages and how many times haven't you received emails they claimed to have sent, especially after confirming your email.  I would think that if someone's job entailed providing product support via phone and online, that perhaps they shouldn't hire people who seem to frequently have issues returning phone calls and sending emails. 
Furthermore, my Mr. Snarkypants persona insists on pointing out that yes, it has a 7 year warranty, but resolution for any problems might take 6 years and 13 months. 
Fingers crossed for you and by the way, I say they owe you some serious swag.

Now that would be nice but I won't hold my breath...
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on April 03, 2018, 02:54:43 pm
Unfortunately, the T-shirt they send will say:
"I sent my DSR in for warranty and all I got was this ##!@ T-shirt!"
 ::)

 "Yamaha's service is # jnlnn"
(poor attempt at single finger salute)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 05, 2018, 02:07:14 pm
I was able to drop off the defective speaker today at the UPS store. It must have triggered Yamaha to see the tracking has begun - I just got an email from Robert indicating the replacement has been shipped and is scheduled to arrive on Monday.
That was nice and prompt....looking good....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on April 05, 2018, 03:58:26 pm
I hope they sent you tracking info too.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 05, 2018, 04:18:58 pm
I hope they sent you tracking info too.


Yes - that too!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on April 09, 2018, 06:39:33 pm
Yay!

(http://www.baystallations.com/webstuff/20180409_181859.jpg)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: John Fruits on April 09, 2018, 06:52:31 pm
Well, is it there yet?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 09, 2018, 08:10:35 pm
YES!!!!- it arrived today. I am so happy..... 
Ironically I don't get to try it live for 3 whole weeks - 2 weekends without my system. I'll try it at home of course.
I noticed something... the sticker on the front states 1500w. I knew the old one was supposed to be 1300w and found the original sticker from it in my files to confirm. 134db same as before. I realize 200w isn't going to make any audible difference and that the spl is the only important factor but I hadn't heard of any upgrades being made to the DSR series - had anyone else?

My home internet is down so this just took me forever to type on my phone....
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 09, 2018, 08:15:53 pm
Checked the manual for the small print and it seems Yamaha has joined the ranks of the exaggerators..... shows 1300 continuous / 1500 dynamic. The old manual only shows 1300 watts
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on April 09, 2018, 09:10:31 pm
YES!!!!- it arrived today. I am so happy..... 
Ironically I don't get to try it live for 3 whole weeks - 2 weekends without my system. I'll try it at home of course.
I noticed something... the sticker on the front states 1500w. I knew the old one was supposed to be 1300w and found the original sticker from it in my files to confirm. 134db same as before. I realize 200w isn't going to make any audible difference and that the spl is the only important factor but I hadn't heard of any upgrades being made to the DSR series - had anyone else?

My home internet is down so this just took me forever to type on my phone....
Good day for us both!
When I bought a third one last June after my initial failure it had the new sticker on it, I just figured it was propaganda since everything else stayed the same. New one I got today has the upgraded sticker also, and still smells of wood glue lol.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on April 09, 2018, 09:23:01 pm
27 pages and >18,000 views later. . . Yay for you! ;D
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 09, 2018, 09:28:10 pm
Good day for us both!
When I bought a third one last June after my initial failure it had the new sticker on it, I just figured it was propaganda since everything else stayed the same. New one I got today has the upgraded sticker also, and still smells of wood glue lol.

A VERY good day for us both indeed!...I am excited to use my fave speakers at a show - I can finally say Yamaha came through for me - thank you Yamaha... thank you.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 09, 2018, 09:28:56 pm
27 pages and >18,000 views later. . . Yay for you! ;D

Crazy-  right???
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on April 10, 2018, 12:12:19 pm
And now it's obsolete.
New DZR series. >:(
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Steve Garris on April 10, 2018, 02:15:29 pm
Checked the manual for the small print and it seems Yamaha has joined the ranks of the exaggerators..... shows 1300 continuous / 1500 dynamic. The old manual only shows 1300 watts

Awesome! That speaker will sound better and be louder than the rest because it's 1500 watts!
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: lindsay Dean on April 10, 2018, 02:20:25 pm
Glad you finally got your replacement speaker back
 but it looks like the delivery guy
 stomped down your walkway solar lights Id charge them for that ::)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on April 10, 2018, 02:47:53 pm
And now it's obsolete.
New DZR series. >:(

DSR and DXR series now on rebate from Yamaha.  $50 - $100  Wish I needed speakers.
They must be wanting to roll out the DZR's badly.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on April 10, 2018, 06:43:37 pm
Glad you finally got your replacement speaker back
 but it looks like the delivery guy
 stomped down your walkway solar lights Id charge them for that ::)
It was the dog
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Tom Roche on April 10, 2018, 06:48:36 pm
DSR and DXR series now on rebate from Yamaha.  $50 - $100  Wish I needed speakers.
They must be wanting to roll out the DZR's badly.

With the rebate, it's very tempting to buy the DSR112s. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on April 10, 2018, 10:47:54 pm
With the rebate, it's very tempting to buy the DSR112s.
Contact Mike Pyle a member here, he'll beat the prices online retailers have even after the rebate. I got 2 from him with covers for way cheaper than 2 for retail, shipping included. About what you would pay for 2 after rebate.
http://www.audiopyle.com/
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 14, 2018, 02:56:47 pm
Finally!  Good to hear things were made right in your world Debbie ;)
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on April 15, 2018, 07:26:34 am
As far as the rebate. Does anyone know for sure if its $50 per DSR112 or $100 PER speaker?  I've seen both in the normal "big box" stores.

Thanks.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: David Allred on April 15, 2018, 08:50:08 am
As far as the rebate. Does anyone know for sure if its $50 per DSR112 or $100 PER speaker?  I've seen both in the normal "big box" stores.

Thanks.

Douglas R. Allen
The DSR112 is $100, as are most other speakers.   The smaller (10's and 8's) are $50 or $75. 
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on April 15, 2018, 01:35:30 pm
If you are considering DSR112s, I'd keep my powder dry for now. These discounts may well get steeper once the new line is readily available.

Anyone remember PRX718XLFs for $749? SRX712s for $825?

I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a new pair of 712s on closeout...

Anyway, assuming Yamaha doesn't raise the price of the DZR too much over the DSR, I think it would make sense to roll with the new line if the old line discount stays only in the $100 range.

Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 15, 2018, 10:14:34 pm
I already have more than enough top to keep up with 2 times the amount of sub I have using the DSR112 over the PRX618XLF, so I am doubtful that I would make the move to the new DZR12.  The new DXS XLF 18" is around 108lbs making it hard for me to part with my 81lb subs as well (that 30 lbs is really pronounced at 3AM after a long night of gigging).

For those looking to buy a new system soon though, this combination may be quite the thing.  I have been looking at the cardioid sub configuration.  Setting up a cluster of 3 subs in a center cluster with 2 DZR12's on poles might make a pretty compelling system.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Kevin Bayersdorfer on May 05, 2018, 07:31:57 pm
Well 3 gigs under my belt with the new speaker, so far so good. Gig your new one yet Debbie?
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 06, 2018, 10:54:11 am
Well 3 gigs under my belt with the new speaker, so far so good. Gig your new one yet Debbie?

Good to hear Kevin....not used mine yet - haven't needed the DSR's what with in house systems and needing the SRX system for the most recent shows.
Today will be the day though......we just packed the van and still felt the need to pack a PRX712 as a spare - sad isn't it?... or maybe sensible and the new norm going forward.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Rob Spence on May 06, 2018, 05:23:58 pm
Used my DXR10s yesterday.

One per side of a projection screen with a pair of KW181s centered below the screen. Had a lectern centered 2’ in front of the screen with an AT gooseneck mic.

Aux fed subs. Only playback in the subs.

Nice clear audio. Lots of compliments.
Much better pattern than the K12s they replaced. It was easier to get the lectern volume up without feedback.
Lighter by a bit too though awkward to lift off of the stand without a side handle.

Happy camper.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 06, 2018, 09:48:20 pm
Used my DXR10s yesterday.

One per side of a projection screen with a pair of KW181s centered below the screen. Had a lectern centered 2’ in front of the screen with an AT gooseneck mic.

Aux fed subs. Only playback in the subs.

Nice clear audio. Lots of compliments.
Much better pattern than the K12s they replaced. It was easier to get the lectern volume up without feedback.
Lighter by a bit too though awkward to lift off of the stand without a side handle.

Happy camper.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Good news Rob- I knew you'd prefer the DXRs to the K series- so much  better IMHO.


Used my new DSR today...... oh yes ... oh yes.
Title: Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 07, 2018, 11:56:48 am

Good news Rob- I knew you'd prefer the DXRs to the K series- so much  better IMHO.


Used my new DSR today...... oh yes ... oh yes.

Let's keep it clean, Debbie. >:( ;)