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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Pro AV Forum => Topic started by: Rob Spence on December 05, 2017, 01:35:24 pm

Title: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Rob Spence on December 05, 2017, 01:35:24 pm
I help out at an organization that helps disadvantaged kids.

They have a projector with DVI input and they have two hdmi video sources. One source is a laptop that the use for presentations. The second one is a video player.
They have been using a simple A/B switch.

Besides the abrupt switching, sometimes the disconnected source laptop changes resolution when it detects there is nothing connected.

When it reconnects, sometimes the projector and the laptop get into a resolution conflict while they sort it out. Meanwhile it looks like a mess on the screen and it takes a while.

So, they would like something better.

It looks like the Roland V-1HD would be perfect but it is way outside their price range.

I saw a Kramer VP-728 on eBay that looks close but I donít know enough here.

Suggestions?


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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Thomas Dameron on December 05, 2017, 04:27:32 pm
I swore off Kramer years ago, but their new (ish) VS-611 looks very interesting for the price.  I especially like that it has a HDbaseT output.  When you're talking about a punch switcher I'm not sure your definition of low cost, but for me this looks like a good option when I need switching but can't get the budget for a Barco 902.

https://www.kramerav.com/us/Product/VS-611DT (https://www.kramerav.com/us/Product/VS-611DT)

thomas d.
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Tom Bourke on December 06, 2017, 01:10:44 am
If the player and current switch play nice then maybe a splitter with edid processing can help. The idea is to give the laptop something to latch on to.

Hdcp may also be causing the glitched switch.
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Caleb Dueck on December 06, 2017, 06:04:44 am
HDMI is more than just video.  What is needed is a switcher that addresses everything, HDCP and EDID being the primary but not only factors.  For a clean transition, the switcher has to pre-handshake and hold that handshake so the transition is only a video switch. 

The cheapest is a glitchy, ugly, multi-second transition.  Higher cost fades from the first source to black and then to the second source.  Higher cost yet is a clean transition. 

Do they need a T-bar style switcher or a simple push-button selector?  If the former, the V-1HD is as inexpensive as it gets.  If the latter, various Extron and Analog Way options come to mind, but they cost more. 





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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Nathan Riddle on December 06, 2017, 07:50:18 am
Atlona comes to mind at the suggestion of my distributor.

HDVS-150-TX older version is ~200 on b&h; the older version doesn't do powered HDbaseT but it might work well for your purposes :)

Alternatively, the KanexPro might do the trick coming in at $180 for the switcher.

Disclaimer: I've never used those products yet, just did a ton of research when I was working on some installs that never happened.

Edit:
Looks like Caleb's: Extron SW6 HDMI is on ebay used for $170.
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: David Allred on December 06, 2017, 08:21:04 am
Is this a fixed installed, or a travelling show?
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 06, 2017, 08:28:47 am
I help out at an organization that helps disadvantaged kids.

They have a projector with DVI input and they have two hdmi video sources. One source is a laptop that the use for presentations. The second one is a video player.
They have been using a simple A/B switch.

Besides the abrupt switching, sometimes the disconnected source laptop changes resolution when it detects there is nothing connected.

When it reconnects, sometimes the projector and the laptop get into a resolution conflict while they sort it out. Meanwhile it looks like a mess on the screen and it takes a while.

So, they would like something better.

It looks like the Roland V-1HD would be perfect but it is way outside their price range.

I saw a Kramer VP-728 on eBay that looks close but I donít know enough here.

Suggestions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
What about converting one of the HDMI sources to another input on the projector and using the projector as switcher?
Might still have the resolution battle when switching but worth a try.
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Steve Alves on December 06, 2017, 10:28:48 am
I am using one of these and it works great.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049SCB2Y
Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Rob Spence on December 06, 2017, 01:31:24 pm
Is this a fixed installed, or a travelling show?

It gets set up in multiple places.



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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Rob Spence on December 06, 2017, 01:39:10 pm
What about converting one of the HDMI sources to another input on the projector and using the projector as switcher?
Might still have the resolution battle when switching but worth a try.

I thought of that but the second input is only VGA. Also, it is a long cable run to the projector and making 2 runs would be a hassle.
In past years, an operator of the laptop was colocated with the projector so a single long hdmi run got the other source to the projector area and switch.
Now, it is difficult to put anyone near the projector so the operator will be located with the sound board (about 100 cable feet to the projector and about 80 feet from the other source).


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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Rob Spence on December 11, 2017, 07:05:39 pm
Continuing on topic, a run from mixer to video source is around 100í.
I see Roland VC-1-SH SDI to HDMI for sale in the marketplace. Would SDI be a good choice for the 100í run? I am guessing that 75 ohm cable is what you use?
For converting the video source hdmi to sdi, would I need the Roland version, or will other units work. Given that I donít want to spend $500 which is about what the  Roland hdmi to sdi costs, what would be a good value for this?
On benny for me would be reducing the number of cables to run to the video source (now I have a powered 120í hdmi cable to the projector area and a pair of XLR cables to the mixer.



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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Cailen Waddell on December 11, 2017, 09:46:10 pm
Continuing on topic, a run from mixer to video source is around 100í.
I see Roland VC-1-SH SDI to HDMI for sale in the marketplace. Would SDI be a good choice for the 100í run? I am guessing that 75 ohm cable is what you use?
For converting the video source hdmi to sdi, would I need the Roland version, or will other units work. Given that I donít want to spend $500 which is about what the  Roland hdmi to sdi costs, what would be a good value for this?
On benny for me would be reducing the number of cables to run to the video source (now I have a powered 120í hdmi cable to the projector area and a pair of XLR cables to the mixer.



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I like SDI for longer video runs.  Sdi to hdmi converters can, at times be problematic, as sdi generally supports a range of resolution and scan rate combos that the TVs on the other side of the converter donít support.   Depending on your source this may or may not be an issue for you. If you are starting hdmi, convert to sdi for the run and back to hdmi, then it almost always works...

Regardless, I like the cheap sdi converters that monoprice sells.  They generally work in the applications I use them in, but plenty of people have also had bad experiences where they donít work - most often I think this is due to an incomplete understanding of 3G sdi level A and level B.   Many of these cheaper converters canít handle level B correctly in my experience and see it as a 1080i stream....


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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Rob Spence on January 20, 2018, 05:53:48 pm
I like SDI for longer video runs.  Sdi to hdmi converters can, at times be problematic, as sdi generally supports a range of resolution and scan rate combos that the TVs on the other side of the converter donít support.   Depending on your source this may or may not be an issue for you. If you are starting hdmi, convert to sdi for the run and back to hdmi, then it almost always works...

Regardless, I like the cheap sdi converters that monoprice sells.  They generally work in the applications I use them in, but plenty of people have also had bad experiences where they donít work - most often I think this is due to an incomplete understanding of 3G sdi level A and level B.   Many of these cheaper converters canít handle level B correctly in my experience and see it as a 1080i stream....


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I am in the camp who doesnít understand much about SDI. Educate me?

I think I want to do the HDMI to SDI for the long run (about 130í). I have been looking at all the less expensive converters on eBay and Amazon as well as at Monoprice.

The path I need would be
Source to Hdmi splitter
- 1 to original display
- 2 to SDI converter
SDI over 150í coax
SDI to hdmi converter
To HDMI audio extractor
To HDMI switch

I worry about the number of boxes in the signal chain.
A HDMI to SDI converter with an HDMI through would be great as would a SDI to HDMI converter with extracted audio.

Still trying to keep the cost manageable what suggestions do all yíall have?

Thanks


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Title: Re: Low cost hdmi switcher needed
Post by: Scott Holtzman on January 20, 2018, 09:31:35 pm
I am in the camp who doesnít understand much about SDI. Educate me?

I think I want to do the HDMI to SDI for the long run (about 130í). I have been looking at all the less expensive converters on eBay and Amazon as well as at Monoprice.

The path I need would be
Source to Hdmi splitter
- 1 to original display
- 2 to SDI converter
SDI over 150í coax
SDI to hdmi converter
To HDMI audio extractor
To HDMI switch

I worry about the number of boxes in the signal chain.
A HDMI to SDI converter with an HDMI through would be great as would a SDI to HDMI converter with extracted audio.

Still trying to keep the cost manageable what suggestions do all yíall have?

Thanks


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SDI has two ports.  Each segment can be 100 meters.  I have had chains of flat panels on totems around a conference space that used up 1000' of cables.

We use the Black Magic MicroConverters and they work well for us.

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