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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => HistoryOfConcertSound.org => Topic started by: lindsay Dean on January 09, 2016, 06:33:55 pm

Title: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: lindsay Dean on January 09, 2016, 06:33:55 pm
Doors July 5th 1968.
 What are the cabinets lined up across the stage
 does anyone know ?
I also thought it was interesting he was face hugging an SM 57
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 09, 2016, 10:26:57 pm
Doors July 5th 1968.
 What are the cabinets lined up across the stage
 does anyone know ?
I also thought it was interesting he was face hugging an SM 57

I can't quite make them out in the photo you posted.

Mac
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2016, 10:37:43 pm
Doors July 5th 1968.
 What are the cabinets lined up across the stage
 does anyone know ?
I also thought it was interesting he was face hugging an SM 57
I don't see a photo attached to the post.

But I googled the date.

They look like Acoustic cabinets.  There appear to also be some Acoustic bass cabs -360

https://www.google.com/search?q=acoustic+360&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBgv6VqJ7KAhUIdj4KHbPpCQcQsAQIIw&biw=1064&bih=589

Maybe there is a connection-or not.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2016, 10:43:49 pm
I don't see a photo attached to the post.

But I googled the date.

They look like Acoustic cabinets.  There appear to also be some Acoustic bass cabs -360

https://www.google.com/search?q=acoustic+360&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBgv6VqJ7KAhUIdj4KHbPpCQcQsAQIIw&biw=1064&bih=589

Maybe there is a connection-or not.
Here are the cabinets I was thinking of

http://www.gantamps.com/images/371.jpg
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2016, 10:45:28 pm
And here is an add for Acoustic and the Doors

http://s19.photobucket.com/user/darkstar2525/media/DoorsAcousticAmpsAD.jpg.html

And another add

http://s10.photobucket.com/user/alexdoors/media/26699.jpg.html
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 09, 2016, 11:13:25 pm
I can't quite make them out in the photo you posted.

Mac
Yeah the photo sucks...I'm trying to think if i attended that concert (I was a fan and hit several concerts in the NE) but i would just be a puke in the audience not scoping the speakers.

The Doors put on a good show, as I recall.

JR

Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 09, 2016, 11:14:48 pm
Yeah the photo sucks...I'm trying to think if i attended that concert (I was a fan and hit several concerts in the NE) but i would just be a puke in the audience not scoping the speakers.

The Doors put on a good show, as I recall.

JR
If you remember the 60s-then you weren't there :)
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 09, 2016, 11:28:35 pm
If you remember the 60s-then you weren't there :)
Perhaps that is why I can't remember that show... 8)   Boston in the '60s was not that different than Haight Ashbury on the left coast.

Flower power....turn on, tune in, drop out...   ;D

While I do remember some stuff... just not that.

JR
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 10, 2016, 01:47:57 am
Yeah the photo sucks...I'm trying to think if i attended that concert (I was a fan and hit several concerts in the NE) but i would just be a puke in the audience not scoping the speakers.

The Doors put on a good show, as I recall.

JR

I know I didn't attend their concert on 9/21/67 at Staples High School, but in the yearbook photos there aren't all those amps on stage. This was a before Jim Morrison was arrested in New Haven CT for inciting a riot and indecency. I guess he was better behaved in Westport CT.

Mac
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: john sanders on January 10, 2016, 10:57:35 am
They look very much like the Acoustic PA cabinets. For the time they were a nice step up from the Shure Vocalmaster.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Stephen Kirby on January 11, 2016, 01:56:00 pm
The Acoustic 360s were powered cabs so that probably made life easier to pile them up.  200W amp in a CV W bin similar to the unpowered ones lots of system operators used.  Sunn made a dual 15 cab called the Orion that had a 175W amp in the bottom but it never caught on.  Although it did make piling them up easier.  There was a band called Lucifer that used 16 of them.  The 360s lasted longer but eventually Acoustic took the amp out of the cab and went to conventional powered amp heads.

There was another series of cabs that Acoustic made with oval car radio speakers in them.  Some tall columns and some larger cabs the same size as a regular 2-15 but with eight 6x9s and a large flared horn.  The horn was made of thin plastic but these things actually worked pretty well in the vocal range.  A friend in high school made copies with thin plywood for the flares that sounded even better.  I imagine the coupling of the horizontal 6x9s was better than most boxes of the day, especially playing into the horn flare.  The ones I heard worked much better for vocals than the 2-15 + re-entrant horn boxes.  And far better than Vocal Masters.  Seemed never to catch on though.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: TrevorMilburn on January 15, 2016, 07:34:06 am
Doors July 5th 1968.
 What are the cabinets lined up across the stage
 does anyone know ?
I also thought it was interesting he was face hugging an SM 57
In an interview I read with Bill Siddons, Roadie then Manager of the Doors, he states that at the Hollywood Bowl Concert in 1968, there were 54 amps (presumably referring to the Acoustic stacks) on stage and a 5000 Watt P.A. system was used. The stacks were run at '2 1/2 out of 10' on the volume scale (no Spinal Tap 11s here). There was also talk of their Monolith System, which I believe to be their normal P.A.system, which consisted of 2 2x12+horn and 2 2x15+horn cabs per side. The use of such a large stage set-up was unusually large even by today's standards, but in those days good, large PA systems were not common and consequenly the backline would probably not have been fed into the PA system, which no doubt carried only vocals and drums. Hendrix was often pictured with 3 or sometimes more Marshall 100w stacks on stage, Jeff Beck in the early seventies would have a huge guitar rig behind him, similarly Richie Blackmore.
Here are some pics of the Doors stage set-up at the Hollywood Bowl:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/Jazomir/Speakers/Hollywood%20Bowl%201968-2_zpsamrmlw0x.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/Jazomir/Speakers/Hollywood%20Bowl%201968-1_zpssd6ki9jl.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/Jazomir/Speakers/Hollywood%20Bowl%201968-3_zpsehgwoizo.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/Jazomir/Speakers/Hollywood%20Bowl%201968-4_zpsjgb6xfjb.jpg)
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Stephen Kirby on January 15, 2016, 02:05:11 pm
I see a couple of 360s around the drum riser which would have carried Manzarak's Rhodes key bass.  Three 261 heads on his side and one on Krieger's side.  Those amps wouldn't handle low loads so it's highly unlikely more than two cabs where hooked to each head.  The 360 was a powered bottom so those could be stacked up.  Ray probably had more as he needed a clean sound for the keyboard.  Robbie could get away with pushing his although I remember those things sounding pretty ugly.  The built in fuzz was especially nasty.  Similar to the Rickenbacker amps but made worse by the horn.  That many 261s would have swamped a 5k PA, even if they were all on "3".  More likely it was for looks since big backlines were common by then.  Even the rows of Marshalls people used weren't all plugged in or turned on.  2 stacks could carry an arena and overwhelm an early '70s PA.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Steve M Smith on January 15, 2016, 03:08:21 pm
Were all those cabs on stage just for instruments or for vocals too?  There are a lot of them in comparison to the number of amps on show.


Steve.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 15, 2016, 07:02:46 pm
Here are some photos from an Acoustic 1972 catalog.

The cabinets in question in the concert are not part of the PA section-but rather in the guitar amp section.

The descriptions says 2 15" Altec speaker & horn.

The PA speakers (line array) contain 6 6x9" speakers each.

The amps are 200 watts each.

As pictured the price is 12,655.00 back in '72
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Stephen Kirby on January 17, 2016, 01:39:21 am
Ah, those are the PA speakers I was trying to find a picture of.  They actually sounded pretty good compared to various columns of the time like VocalMasters, Vox and Marshall columns.  The ones my friend built with plywood flares sounded even better.  The plastic flares were pretty flimsy.

But those amps are newer models with graphic eqs on them and didn't have the big silver knobs with the switches off to the sides on the blue panels.  I think that bass head is powered as well, unlike the 360 shown in the Doors pics which had an amp in the bottom.  The bass player in my HS band had one of the originals.  Along with a Sunn 2000S and two extra single D140 cabs that I built him off of half of the 2000s so he could get them in the back of his Volkswagen for "small" gigs.  When he had all of them running it was pretty loud.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 18, 2016, 11:45:50 am
Here are some photos from an Acoustic 1972 catalog.

The cabinets in question in the concert are not part of the PA section-but rather in the guitar amp section.

The descriptions says 2 15" Altec speaker & horn.

The PA speakers (line array) contain 6 6x9" speakers each.

The amps are 200 watts each.

As pictured the price is 12,655.00 back in '72

That price was for MF VIII system that included 4 AKG mics, 8 Model 300 amps, and 16ea. 801 cabinets. More than anyone should have paid for anything Acoustic.
Title: Re: July 5th 1968 Doors concert on vh1 classic
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 18, 2016, 12:21:17 pm
That price was for MF VIII system that included 4 AKG mics, 8 Model 300 amps, and 16ea. 801 cabinets. More than anyone should have paid for anything Acoustic.
You did get the mixer as well for that price-----------