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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => HistoryOfConcertSound.org => Topic started by: Anthony Bowe on January 07, 2016, 08:23:45 pm

Title: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Anthony Bowe on January 07, 2016, 08:23:45 pm
Hi everyone,

I'm reconnecting with my old love of live sound after many years in AV. I'm curious to know more about a couple of pieces of kit we used to use decades ago. I was very new and absolutely green to live sound those days, so my understanding of the kit was pretty low.

4560s and W bins are well known, but can someone fill me in on what "rings" (high freqs) and "Roys" (mids??) were please? I'll assume Roys were named after Roy Clair. I think at the time I used to confuse them with 4560s (hey, I was young and stupid).

Regards, and thanks for any information offered.



Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Dave Pluke on January 07, 2016, 08:32:25 pm
No idea about "Roys", but could "Rings" refer to JBL 2402 (ring radiators a.k.a. bullets)?

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-400-jbl-specifications-44119.pdf

Dave
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Anthony Bowe on January 07, 2016, 08:58:44 pm
No idea about "Roys", but could "Rings" refer to JBL 2402 (ring radiators a.k.a. bullets)?

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-400-jbl-specifications-44119.pdf

Dave
Dave, thank you, I think you're spot on.

There were 5 or 6 mounted horizontally in a cabinet, gently arcing around for horizontal dispersion.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 08, 2016, 07:29:03 am
No idea about "Roys", but could "Rings" refer to JBL 2402 (ring radiators a.k.a. bullets)?

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-400-jbl-specifications-44119.pdf

Dave
+1 on the "bullets".
I used a system with a 4 pack of bullets on each side to make up for the lack of top end in the JBL 2350 horns.
Crossed over somewhere around 6k or so.
Havn't heard of "Roys"
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Anthony Bowe on January 08, 2016, 07:39:06 am
Havn't heard of "Roys"

Thanks Keith.

I wonder if "Roys" was an Australianism? Hopefully there'll be some 1980s pub rock soundies on the forum who'll be able to help out.
(I hope the memory hasn't gone too badly)  :-\
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Rex Ray on January 08, 2016, 08:51:43 am
The "Roy Box" was indeed designed by Roy Clair. They consisted of 2 12" JBL's in a horn loaded cabinet with a wooden phase plug between the drivers. They were a little over 6db more efficient than anything else in the system and had to be turned down at the amp or crossover to balance the system. Used them many times.
HTH,Rex
Rex Ray
Sr. Engineer
Clair Nashville 36 year Clair employee
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 08, 2016, 09:05:18 am
The "Roy Box" was indeed designed by Roy Clair. They consisted of 2 12" JBL's in a horn loaded cabinet with a wooden phase plug between the drivers. They were a little over 6db more efficient than anything else in the system and had to be turned down at the amp or crossover to balance the system. Used them many times.
HTH,Rex
Rex Ray
Sr. Engineer
Clair Nashville 36 year Clair employee
Were they anything similar to the Martin "Philishaves"?
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 08, 2016, 01:03:00 pm
The "Roy Box" was indeed designed by Roy Clair. They consisted of 2 12" JBL's in a horn loaded cabinet with a wooden phase plug between the drivers. They were a little over 6db more efficient than anything else in the system and had to be turned down at the amp or crossover to balance the system. Used them many times.
HTH,Rex
Rex Ray
Sr. Engineer
Clair Nashville 36 year Clair employee

It's funny to see you listed as a Newbie (in the forum software), Rex!  Good to see you back here.

Thanks for all the console advice and help you've given over the years, too.  Couldn't have gotten the noise floors down without your expertise and assistance.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Stephen Kirby on January 08, 2016, 02:06:54 pm
I remember folks having both 2402 bullets or ring radiators and slots in the same cabinet.  The 2405 slot tweeter had a wide horizontal pattern while the bullet is much narrower.  I actually have one laying around that I had bought intending to use for a drum monitor with narrow dispersion.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Anthony Bowe on January 08, 2016, 02:22:46 pm
The "Roy Box" was indeed designed by Roy Clair. They consisted of 2 12" JBL's in a horn loaded cabinet with a wooden phase plug between the drivers. They were a little over 6db more efficient than anything else in the system and had to be turned down at the amp or crossover to balance the system. Used them many times.
HTH,Rex
Rex Ray
Sr. Engineer
Clair Nashville 36 year Clair employee

Brilliant, thanks Rex. Were they an official Clair Brothers product?, or was it a side project designed by Roy and given over to other manufacturers?
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Rex Ray on January 19, 2016, 09:18:16 am
They were indeed an official CBA product and part of the old 4-way "Horn & Bin" system. Built in the Lititz woodshop. They're  still around in a warehouse somewhere,I'm sure.
Rex
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Mike Diack on January 20, 2016, 05:51:34 pm
They were indeed an official CBA product and part of the old 4-way "Horn & Bin" system. Built in the Lititz woodshop. They're  still around in a warehouse somewhere,I'm sure.
Rex
On this side of the Tasman, a bloke called Dodds redesigned the roybin so it packed better with the Keele single 18" W-bin. They were always (incorrectly)
called roybins, not doddsbins. Endemic in the '80s and when loaded with E120s, absolute murder on the back.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Rex Ray on January 21, 2016, 09:17:50 am
The original Roy Box had no ports,and was more square than rectangular,almost a cube. There used to be a guy in NZ that had a system of JBL S-4 looking boxes,he drove them with his own 3-way amplifiers. We used that system when I was there with Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton. 1986,IIRC. We hung them on Clair aluminum bumpers that we brought with us. Outdoors,in the round.
Or was that Tasmania? Geez I'm old!
Rex
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Chris Hindle on January 21, 2016, 12:44:41 pm

Or was that Tasmania? Geez I'm old!
Rex

Rex, if I may say so, you're one of the few I know of that can honestly say "Been there, done that"

Chris.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Mike Diack on January 21, 2016, 05:19:09 pm
The roybin, in its natural environment, accompanied by 18" Ws, 2350 radial and rings (The Altec was an anomoly - had to put it somewhere). 1982.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Jim McKeveny on January 23, 2016, 01:08:28 pm
Brilliant, thanks Rex. Were they an official Clair Brothers product?, or was it a side project designed by Roy and given over to other manufacturers?

I wold love to see an original "Roy".

It was all about max spl at lowest cost back then. Measurement did not exist. If you could accurately notch the wild peaks of a 4560+K/E130 package, the USABLE sensitivity was orders of magnitude lower. 

BTW Mike Diack: What was the Working Load Limit on that SL sawhorse?
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Mike Diack on January 27, 2016, 05:15:51 am
BTW Mike Diack: What was the Working Load Limit on that SL sawhorse?
Enough.
M
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on January 27, 2016, 11:01:37 am
..and then there were the JBL 2404H's! 

-Dennis
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 27, 2016, 01:04:43 pm


It was all about max spl at lowest cost back then. Measurement did not exist. If you could accurately notch the wild peaks of a 4560+K/E130 package, the USABLE sensitivity was orders of magnitude lower. 


That was my mid package for most of the 80s.
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 27, 2016, 02:06:08 pm
That was my mid package for most of the 80s.
So much top end on that rig it looks like it took your hair off Ivan  ;D ;D
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 27, 2016, 05:12:53 pm
So much top end on that rig it looks like it took your hair off Ivan  ;D ;D
That is NOT the way I would set it up for a gig.

I was big into "stack and splay".

This photo was purely publicity (and the easy way to stack it that day--------)
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 28, 2016, 07:04:08 am
That is NOT the way I would set it up for a gig.

I was big into "stack and splay".

This photo was purely publicity (and the easy way to stack it that day--------)
I travelled with a Martin system and did the same "stack and splay" despite people wanting the "wall of speakers" look.
Splaying worked better...imagine that!
I had no doubt that your pic was for display purposes only. :)
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Rex Ray on January 28, 2016, 10:23:38 am
OMG! Karlson couplers! You DO go way back,Ivan!
Rex
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 28, 2016, 10:06:08 pm
OMG! Karlson couplers! You DO go way back,Ivan!
Rex
Yeah those were MSI "half clams" with JBL 2225 woofers
Title: Re: "Rings" & "Roys" ???
Post by: Jim McKeveny on January 29, 2016, 08:29:41 am
That was my mid package for most of the 80s.

I made a bunch o' money in the '80s with that combo in mid. Yamaha P2200 power.

@1986 I "anvilized" all my boxes with aluminum extrusion. Because "pro".