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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => HistoryOfConcertSound.org => Topic started by: Jeff Bankston on October 18, 2014, 12:18:31 am

Title: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Jeff Bankston on October 18, 2014, 12:18:31 am
ebay item number 311118827427. some guy on ebay has it. not me.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 18, 2014, 08:33:49 am
ebay item number 311118827427. some guy on ebay has it. not me.
One interesting thing is the 0 position of the knobs.  Not at 12 but rather at 6 oclock.

Kustom (yes the rolled and pleated guys) made a couple of "professional" mixers before they went out of business.

I was told there were 7 made-at one time I owned 3 of them and knew who owned a 4th.

It had individual removable channels-a 5 band eq-switchable high and low pass filters-switchable limiters etc.

The really weird thing was the effects.  There was no buss-but rather an individual input/output on each channel.

Things were not so "standard" back in those days.

I would like to have the Tychobrahe mixer-but not at that price--------
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Art Welter on November 06, 2014, 09:11:00 am
One interesting thing is the 0 position of the knobs.  Not at 12 but rather at 6 oclock.
Things were not so "standard" back in those days.
I would like to have the Tychobrahe mixer-but not at that price--------
Ivan,

Until just now looking at Jim Gamble's 1974 Tycobrahe Blue board I had not realized that the latter Yamaha PM1000 copied Jim's "upside down" knob position, following his "standard". Since the latter PM consoles adopted the "normal" 0 dB at the top of the knob position, I had assumed that the odd PM1000 knob layout was a Japanese convention that was left behind when Yamaha mixing consoles reached worldwide acceptance as an industry "standard" desk.

Learn something old every day ;^).

Art
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Ivan Beaver on November 06, 2014, 11:50:52 am
Ivan,

Until just now looking at Jim Gamble's 1974 Tycobrahe Blue board I had not realized that the latter Yamaha PM1000 copied Jim's "upside down" knob position, following his "standard". Since the latter PM consoles adopted the "normal" 0 dB at the top of the knob position, I had assumed that the odd PM1000 knob layout was a Japanese convention that was left behind when Yamaha mixing consoles reached worldwide acceptance as an industry "standard" desk.

Learn something old every day ;^).

Art
Makes you wonder who really did it first-and why?

All the stereo gear-guitar amps (that I have seen) rotate through the top (12 oclock) positon-not through the 6 oclock position.

There is probably a valid reason-I would love to hear it.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Jim Turner on November 06, 2014, 12:22:30 pm
There is probably a valid reason-I would love to hear it.

The reason as explained to me is that on a "large format" console it is difficult to see where the knob is actually pointing without leaning way over to take a look. Having the upside-down orientation kind of makes ergonomic sense.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Ivan Beaver on November 06, 2014, 01:13:00 pm
The reason as explained to me is that on a "large format" console it is difficult to see where the knob is actually pointing without leaning way over to take a look. Having the upside-down orientation kind of makes ergonomic sense.
Makes sense to me :)
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Gus Housen on November 10, 2014, 08:00:38 pm
Seems like a ridiculous amount of $.

Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: brian maddox on November 10, 2014, 08:27:36 pm
Makes you wonder who really did it first-and why?

All the stereo gear-guitar amps (that I have seen) rotate through the top (12 oclock) positon-not through the 6 oclock position.

There is probably a valid reason-I would love to hear it.

I mixed on a harrison desk in a studio in the early 90's that had the upside down knobs. Don't remember the model but it was something big and cool.  It kinda hurt my brain to mix on that thing.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Tom Burgess on November 11, 2014, 07:59:58 pm
I, too, had an upside down knob experience in the late 80's on one of the Yamaha consoles.  I finally decided to look away from the knob after I got my fingers on it and pretend everything was right with the world.  The faders on that thing were awesome!  Still, it was such a departure from my trusty Series One Studiomaster that I was happy to not have to mix on one again.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: duane massey on November 13, 2014, 12:09:14 am
First console we ever built (early 70's) that had sliders had one "unique" feature: the sliders were wired so that you pulled DOWN to turn it up. We had never actually seen another console with sliders, and honestly didn't know any better. The first band to use it was Osibisa, and their engineer looked a little puzzled but got thru the night OK. He asked afterwards if this was a normal thing in the USA, and that was when we found out the rather embarrassing mistake we had made. I fixed it the next day.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Tim McCulloch on November 18, 2014, 09:55:27 am
First console we ever built (early 70's) that had sliders had one "unique" feature: the sliders were wired so that you pulled DOWN to turn it up. We had never actually seen another console with sliders, and honestly didn't know any better. The first band to use it was Osibisa, and their engineer looked a little puzzled but got thru the night OK. He asked afterwards if this was a normal thing in the USA, and that was when we found out the rather embarrassing mistake we had made. I fixed it the next day.

I remember reading that BBC initially built their own mixers the same way - pulling the fader toward the operator made it louder, pushing the fader away made it quieter.
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Art Welter on November 24, 2014, 01:33:04 pm
I remember reading that BBC initially built their own mixers the same way - pulling the fader toward the operator made it louder, pushing the fader away made it quieter.
Tom Dowd pioneered the use of linear channel faders as opposed to rotary controls on audio mixers, he also installed his faders so that you "push away" the unwanted level, and  "pull" what you want toward you.
Tom Down explained his fader preference in a great documentary.

Tom worked as an engineer and producer from the 1940s, recording and mixing albums for Allman Brothers Band, Cream, Joe Bonamassa, Eric Clapton,  Derek and the Dominos, the Eagles Rod Stewart, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Wishbone Ash, New Model Army,  Chicago,  the J. Geils Band, Meat Loaf, Sonny & Cher, the Rascals, Willie Nelson, Diana Ross, , Kenny Loggins, James Gang, Dusty Springfield, Eddie Harris, Charles Mingus, Herbie Mann, Booker T. and the MGs, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, etc.

All those artists saw Tom mixing with "upside down" faders, but most probably were unaware "which way was up"  ;).

Art
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: Tim McCulloch on November 26, 2014, 11:28:38 am
Tom Dowd pioneered the use of linear channel faders as opposed to rotary controls on audio mixers, he also installed his faders so that you "push away" the unwanted level, and  "pull" what you want toward you.
Tom Down explained his fader preference in a great documentary.

Tom worked as an engineer and producer from the 1940s, recording and mixing albums for Allman Brothers Band, Cream, Joe Bonamassa, Eric Clapton,  Derek and the Dominos, the Eagles Rod Stewart, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Wishbone Ash, New Model Army,  Chicago,  the J. Geils Band, Meat Loaf, Sonny & Cher, the Rascals, Willie Nelson, Diana Ross, , Kenny Loggins, James Gang, Dusty Springfield, Eddie Harris, Charles Mingus, Herbie Mann, Booker T. and the MGs, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, etc.

All those artists saw Tom mixing with "upside down" faders, but most probably were unaware "which way was up"  ;).

Art

Hi Art-

I was familiar with Tom's work as a producer but never knew about his life as a "reverse faderist."  Thanks for the additional info about his work. :)
Title: Re: Caljam74 Mixer for sale
Post by: duane massey on November 26, 2014, 11:57:25 am
You mean we weren't ignorant and stupid, just misunderstood? Maybe that 100' unbalanced hi-Z snake wasn't a bad idea either?