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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Lounge FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Kevin Geen on October 08, 2008, 06:23:54 pm

Title: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 08, 2008, 06:23:54 pm
I am just curious to see what you guys think. I'm looking for opinions on what type of subs I should use. I basically DJ for crowds of 50-600 depending on the event and venue. I'm running EV eliminator on the top on my old school Peavey CS800. The big, 70 pound monster lol, and have a Peavey SP218 for the bottom on a bridged CE2000 amp. Although it fills a medium/small sized room, I know I need more.

I've been bumming around this site reading about all other subs out there, and i'm not sure if the Peaveys are right for me. But this is where I want your opinion. I am debating between another SP218, or I was looking at the Yorkville UCS1.

I was probably going to pick up the QSC RMX2450's, I figure I could run 2 UCS1's on 1 amp, or 1 SP218. For the music I play, it's mostly, 70's, 80's, rock, and hip hop. It's the majority of what I play. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 08, 2008, 06:35:50 pm
By the way, sorry if not all the right stuff is in the right spot, i'm still new on here.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Steve Hurt on October 08, 2008, 07:00:11 pm
My "opion" is that your signature line isn't going to win you any friends.

edit to add his signature line:
Quote:

Face the facts, there are just as many shitty sound techs as there are DJ's.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 08, 2008, 09:34:19 pm
Sorry if my signature came out wrong, it was meant to be taken as, there are as many bad sound techs are their are bad DJ's, which I posted as one of the sound techs tied into our system at our club and trashed one of our compression drivers in our Martin WT3's. I wasn't a happy camper. I guess I forgot I had that as a sig. so sorry everyone.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Dave Rickard on October 09, 2008, 12:28:13 am
The cheapest route is to buy another SP218.  
A better Peavey route would be two QW218's.

I haven't used the UCS1's, but threads indicate better results when two or more are coupled.  

I like LS808's too.

If you buy powered cabs, they'll have both proper power and limiting.

Just my thoughts...

P.S. your second sig is not spelled correctly yet.

Your second sig

If it's to loud, you're to old.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Josh Billings on October 09, 2008, 01:13:26 am
lol, i like the first signature better Smile

Go with the QW218 if you can find them used they will stand a bunch of abuse and put out quite a bit of SPL with any given power. I've said it before, i would go with 6-8 QW218s if i could do it all over again. The cabs get a LOT of respect around here and with a bit of tape they look like very professional cabinets.

http://www.cobrasound.com/files/Twins.jpg

-Josh
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 09, 2008, 09:46:42 am
Well I guess I should have also said that being that I have to move everything myself, I dont want a ton of weight, and I think with the QW218, i'll need one hell of an amp rack to run 4 of them. I've already gotten 1 hernia lifting up a rack with a macrotech 5000, 2 macrotech 2400's, and 2 crown XLS 402's. And that's not a road i'm going down again lol. So I was hoping like with the UCS1's, that I could get away with running 2 subs per amp, so subs that are 8 ohms per cab.
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Dave Rickard on October 09, 2008, 10:41:05 am
Kevin Geen wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 07:46

Well I guess I should have also said that being that I have to move everything myself, I dont want a ton of weight, and I think with the QW218, i'll need one hell of an amp rack to run 4 of them. I've already gotten 1 hernia lifting up a rack with a macrotech 5000, 2 macrotech 2400's, and 2 crown XLS 402's. And that's not a road i'm going down again lol. So I was hoping like with the UCS1's, that I could get away with running 2 subs per amp, so subs that are 8 ohms per cab.


Your logic is correct.

Welcome to the LAB lounge.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Jeff Babcock on October 09, 2008, 11:48:02 am
Kevin Geen wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 09:46

I dont want a ton of weight, and I think with the QW218, i'll need one hell of an amp rack to run 4 of them. I've already gotten 1 hernia lifting up a rack with a macrotech 5000, 2 macrotech 2400's, and 2 crown XLS 402's. And that's not a road i'm going down again lol.



There are plenty of lightweight amps available that sound great.  On the cheap, 2 peavey CS4080HZ will do a nice job of running 4 QW218's and not kill you with weight.  

Since you are a DJ I would expect you might like the sound of a dual 18 like the QW218 better than some horn subs.  That's not to say horns don't sound great and the UCS1 is a nice sounding inexpensive sub, but it has a different sonic character than some DJ's are accustomed to.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 09, 2008, 05:49:53 pm
I mainly run sound at a club, we use Martin Audio WT3's for tops, have 4 of them, and 4 Martin Audio Ws2a's on the bottom. For live music they are excellent, but for when I DJ they are a little flat to my taste. I like the sound of the folded horn better since unfort, all the younger kids are into the hip hop BS that no one likes. And personally, I feel that the folded horns hit those lows better than front loaded subs.

I guess for me, it's just hard to find a sub that works really well in both situations. I love the sound of the TH-115's, but can't afford them on my salary as of right now. To me, when 4 are used, they hit fairly well with the kicks, and play smooth with the bass, but when DJing, they can play all the hip hop BS without sounding like they are breaking a sweat.

I guess that's really what i'm looking for, something that is like the best of both worlds. Do the QW218's fit that? I mean, my SP218 is nice for live music, but just doesn't seem to have the low end stuff for DJing, and that's set up at 42.5hz (18 BW dropoff)-80hz at a 12 BW dropoff, but it just doesn't seem to go that low. And this is set on a driverack PA.

And so we are clear, the club has its own system, and I have my own.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Travis Watson on October 09, 2008, 07:00:00 pm
My opinion is the Qw218/CS4080 will give you what you need for live acts. I like the fact that they are built taller and not so much deeper so they get the tops up higher. As far as the hip hop or crap or what ever it's called today I have no long term idea of how well they would hold up. I try to avoid that music like, like,  the accordion Laughing nothing good can come from it. I have had it run through my subs and it will rattle things about the room and I guess if you put some kind of metal on the floor or something you could get that car trunk buzz they like.
On a lower note the Versarray 218 will go lower and hit harder and has tilt back wheels and will still run off the 4080 but more power would really wake them up.

On your last post is that "80hz at a 12BW drop off" the upper corner on your sub crossover? It seems a bit high for my taste, thats right in the middle of the kick. I would raise it to 100 or at least 90 with a LR24 but thats just me.
Title: My Opinion
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 09, 2008, 07:14:16 pm
My opinion is that there is far too little use of spell checking on these boards. It does no one's reputation any good to keep repeating the same misspellings. There are 24 hours to edit your post to correct it after the fact. If you think it is cute, or doesn't reflect on you or your perception because someone else started it, you are sadly mistaken.

Mac
made grumpy by repetition.
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on October 09, 2008, 07:42:05 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 16:14

My opinion is that there is far too little use of spell checking on these boards. It does no one's reputation any good to keep repeating the same misspellings. There are 24 hours to edit your post to correct it after the fact. If you think it is cute, or doesn't reflect on you or your perception because someone else started it, you are sadly mistaken.

Mac
made grumpy by repetition.


Hey Mister Grumpypants...  Very Happy

The spell-check feature here on LAB doesn't look at the thread's title. I ran spell-check on Kevin Geen's post and it didn't notice the incorrect use of grocer's apostrophes on "70's, 80's", "UCS1's" and "RMX2450's" [sic]. Mr. Geen did avoid the ugly apostrophe mistake on his plural use of "Peaveys", which adds points for being right but takes away points for consistency.  Razz   Spell-check did not catch his unbelievable opinion that a speaker that weighs 70 lbs. is a "monster"... heh heh. What it caught instead was the lower-case "lol" and the three quite correct spellings of manufacturer names: QSC, Yorkville and Peavey. The point I'm trying to make is that LAB's spell-check is an imperfect tool. What works much better is a strong foundation of English.

-Bink
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 09, 2008, 08:05:43 pm
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 19:42

Hey Mister Grumpypants...  Very Happy

The spell-check feature here on LAB doesn't look at the thread's title.

Au contraire. It found the misspelled word in the subject line when I ran it.

Mac
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on October 09, 2008, 08:19:27 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 17:05

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 19:42

The spell-check feature here on LAB doesn't look at the thread's title.

Au contraire. It found the misspelled word in the subject line when I ran it.

Mac


Wow, must be a difference between my WinXP Pro Mozilla Firefox and your, uh, whatever it is that you use. Still on Safari?

-Bink
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 09, 2008, 09:36:00 pm
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 20:19

Wow, must be a difference between my WinXP Pro Mozilla Firefox and your, uh, whatever it is that you use. Still on Safari?

Yes, Safari, but I think the spell checker is a function of the forum software, not the browser. Your original post mentioned the forum's lame spell check software. Are you sure it isn't recognizing the the subject line?

Mac
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Sam York on October 09, 2008, 09:54:44 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 02:36

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 20:19

Wow, must be a difference between my WinXP Pro Mozilla Firefox and your, uh, whatever it is that you use. Still on Safari?

Yes, Safari, but I think the spell checker is a function of the forum software, not the browser. Your original post mentioned the forum's lame spell check software. Are you sure it isn't recognizing the the subject line?

Mac


I'm on XP Pro SP2 Firefox 2, and it catches the error in the subject line but does a really annoying thing on loading where it automatically scrolls the 'spell checked' page down so you can't see the bit above the normal form where it's suggesting replacements. Never noticed it before as that's actually the first time I've pressed the spell check button.
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 09, 2008, 09:55:18 pm
Yup the website spell checker catches it in IE, FF, or Safari..  Perhaps some java script.

I think all the misspellings are cute, since I can spell to save my ass.. Thank god and/or Turning for computers.

JR

edit... TURING MACHINE  [edit]
edit-2... I can't spell to save my ass,, [/edit-2]
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Sam York on October 09, 2008, 09:56:22 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 02:55

Yup the website spell checker catches it in IE, FF, or Safari..  Perhaps some java script.

I think all the misspellings are cute, since I can spell to save my ass.. Thank god and/or Turning for computers.

JR




You have to be SO careful when criticising spelling JR....!  Laughing

(although I admit this may be a factual error rather than a spelling one)
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 09, 2008, 09:57:24 pm
Well I wont lie, I was a little drunk when I posted the first time, so the fingers were going a little faster than the brain at the time. You know, long days at work and you have to have a couple when you get home.
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 09, 2008, 10:56:41 pm
Sam York wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 20:56

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 02:55

Yup the website spell checker catches it in IE, FF, or Safari..  Perhaps some java script.

I think all the misspellings are cute, since I can spell to save my ass.. Thank god and/or Turning for computers.

JR




You have to be SO careful when criticising spelling JR....!  Laughing

(although I admit this may be a factual error rather than a spelling one)


Luckily I wasn't being the typical asshole,,, I said I can't spell..and thought it cute.

Turing/turning  yes I need to google my obscure references,,, I was actually a little distracted about the how the rest of the sentence would play, in this PC day and age. This is why editors are paid more than spell checkers, and an example of the kind of errors spell checkers can't fix.

Thank you for the heads up.. Accuracy is probably more important when dealing with the obscure.

JR
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Sam York on October 09, 2008, 11:08:48 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 03:56

Sam York wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 20:56

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 02:55

Yup the website spell checker catches it in IE, FF, or Safari..  Perhaps some java script.

I think all the misspellings are cute, since I can spell to save my ass.. Thank god and/or Turning for computers.

JR




You have to be SO careful when criticising spelling JR....!  Laughing

(although I admit this may be a factual error rather than a spelling one)


Luckily I wasn't being the typical asshole,,, I said I can't spell..and thought it cute.

Turing/turning  yes I need to google my obscure references,,, I was actually a little distracted about the how the rest of the sentence would play, in this PC day and age. This is why editors are paid more than spell checkers, and an example of the kind of errors spell checkers can't fix.

Thank you for the heads up.. Accuracy is probably more important when dealing with the obscure.

JR


Understood. I thought you were actually trying to be the typical asshole as you misspelt 'can't' as 'can'; that combined with the fact that the Turning was the only other misspelling in the post made me take it exactly opposite from how it was intended!
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 09, 2008, 11:49:20 pm
Sam York wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 22:08

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 03:56

Sam York wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 20:56

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 02:55

Yup the website spell checker catches it in IE, FF, or Safari..  Perhaps some java script.

I think all the misspellings are cute, since I can spell to save my ass.. Thank god and/or Turning for computers.

JR




You have to be SO careful when criticising spelling JR....!  Laughing

(although I admit this may be a factual error rather than a spelling one)


Luckily I wasn't being the typical asshole,,, I said I can't spell..and thought it cute.

Turing/turning  yes I need to google my obscure references,,, I was actually a little distracted about the how the rest of the sentence would play, in this PC day and age. This is why editors are paid more than spell checkers, and an example of the kind of errors spell checkers can't fix.

Thank you for the heads up.. Accuracy is probably more important when dealing with the obscure.

JR


Understood. I thought you were actually trying to be the typical asshole as you misspelt 'can't' as 'can'; that combined with the fact that the Turning was the only other misspelling in the post made me take it exactly opposite from how it was intended!


More like I fat fingered it, and I didn't even notice until you mentioned. Hard to proofread yourself...  One trick that helps is reading the copy upside down, but hard to do with my computer.

My mother once had a job as a newspaper proof reader back about a zillion years ago...

JR
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 10, 2008, 12:18:35 am
Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 18:14

My opinion is that there is far too little use of spell checking on these boards. It does no one's reputation any good to keep repeating the same misspellings. There are 24 hours to edit your post to correct it after the fact. If you think it is cute, or doesn't reflect on you or your perception because someone else started it, you are sadly mistaken.

Mac
made grumpy by repetition.


So some words were not spelled properly.....big deal. It was/is very easy to understand what he was saying. Side tracking threads with complaints about someones spelling seems more distractive than the misspellings themselves.

Thats my oh so humble opion reggarding tha mater.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Art Welter on October 10, 2008, 12:52:50 am
"If it's to loud, you're to old."

Try "too".

And shit that's too loud is too loud when you are one year old or 100.

Wish I had figured that out before I did permanent damage to my ears.

My "opion".
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 10, 2008, 07:37:49 am
No idea why people have to be such assholes on this forum. So I made a spelling mistake or two, big deal. All I can say, grow the fuck up, we all make mistakes, live with it.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 10, 2008, 09:51:08 am
It's my nature....   good luck.

JR
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Tom faderjockey Brandis on October 10, 2008, 11:10:05 am
Plus the misuse of the word "to" in the tag line. How about adding another "o".

Tom
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Vince Byrne on October 10, 2008, 03:42:12 pm
Kevin Geen wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 06:37

No idea why people have to be such assholes on this forum. So I made a spelling mistake or two, big deal. All I can say, grow the fuck up, we all make mistakes, live with it.

Think of this place like a bar. If you are so thin skinned that  a little light ribbing like this gets your panties all bunched up, then go home or find another bar more to your liking.

Or you could shrug it off and pull up a beer. After you fix your sig.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Dave Rickard on October 10, 2008, 03:58:16 pm
Kevin Geen wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 05:37

No idea why people have to be such assholes on this forum. So I made a spelling mistake or two, big deal. All I can say, grow the fuck up, we all make mistakes, live with it.


Yes, we all make mistakes, and I try to fix mine *quickly*, especially in public.

I try not to make people live with my mistakes.....or tell them they need to grow up and live with them.  Not good strategy.

We are all in the "people business", and people skills matter.

Chill, there's a lot to learn here at the LAB.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 10, 2008, 04:55:07 pm
well all I am saying, I did admit that I was drinking when I posted it, and yes I did make a mistake. Doesn't give everyone the right to jump on me for it. You could tell me how to edit it since i'm new on the forum, and don't know how to do everything, rather than shoot me down. How difficult would that be?
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Patrick Tracy on October 10, 2008, 05:02:40 pm
Kevin Geen wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 14:55

well all I am saying, I did admit that I was drinking when I posted it, and yes I did make a mistake. Doesn't give everyone the right to jump on me for it. You could tell me how to edit it since i'm new on the forum, and don't know how to do everything, rather than shoot me down. How difficult would that be?

View your message and click the "Edit" button. You get twenty-four hours to edit before it becomes permanent. Edited messages will be marked as updated with a date.

By the way, Firefox will underline words with questionable spelling. Right-clicking on the word will show a list of possible correct alternatives and also let you add words to your dictionary.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: SteveKirby on October 10, 2008, 08:44:38 pm
Kevin Geen wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 06:37

No idea why people have to be such assholes on this forum. So I made a spelling mistake or two, big deal. All I can say, grow the fuck up, we all make mistakes, live with it.

The regulars on this forum are professionals.  And conduct themselves as such.  Saying "I was drunk" is not an acceptable excuse in a professional endeavor.  If I forgot the chords to a song, or missed a cue in SR (or make any number of more egregious errors) and tried to pawn it off with "I was drunk, it's not may fault, you should cut me some slack".  I'd get some slack alright.  Right into the "we found someone else we can count on" unemployment line.

If you want to be taken seriously by serious folks, it helps to conduct yourself as professionally as possible.  And swallowing hard when you do something wrong and it gets pointed out.  Lashing back out is biting the hands you hope to be fed by.

It takes some time to build up some working respect on any forum.  I'll never understand folks who barrel in, guns blazing.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kevin Geen on October 10, 2008, 10:03:43 pm
well I told you my fault, and not denying that I made a mistake. I'm just here to learn from previous experiences of what people have seen/done. That's it. Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, but people could have cut me some slack. I just DJ and am a FOH engineer on the side. I won't say what I do for a real job, but I am very professional, in a very high stress job, as in dealing with lives of people. So, not using it as an excuse, I do sometimes drink after work to help relax.

I am just here to gain knowledge of what people have experienced and want to help build up my knowledge in this area. So i'm sorry if it bothers you, but that's what i'm here for, i'm not here to fight against anybody. So why don't we get back to the original subject from what I was first asking.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 11, 2008, 01:43:49 am
SteveKirby wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 19:44

The regulars on this forum are professionals.  And conduct themselves as such.  Saying "I was drunk" is not an acceptable excuse in a professional endeavor.  If I forgot the chords to a song, or missed a cue in SR (or make any number of more egregious errors) and tried to pawn it off with "I was drunk, it's not may fault, you should cut me some slack".  I'd get some slack alright.  Right into the "we found someone else we can count on" unemployment line.



While providing sound may be a "professional endeavor" for some people here, asking questions here is hardly such an endeavor. Being drunk and making big screw-ups while on the job behind a mixer or on stage playing guitar is not at all like being drunk and making spelling errors on an internet forum.

Being careless on the job matters. Being careless on a forum matters very little unless you are a dealer here with something to sell, a manufacturer with something to sell and promote etc. etc. and we all know both are present.

The folks on here with nothing but questions to ask and advice to give have little to nothing to lose here.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Caleb Dick on October 11, 2008, 09:19:38 am
Mark Hobbs wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 22:43

Being drunk and making big screw-ups while on the job behind a mixer or on stage playing guitar is not at all like being drunk and making spelling errors on an internet forum.



The assumption made by most is that one is a professional and detail-oriented in all aspects of their life, especially any/all interactions with others (in person, phone, online, PSW, et al).  Since talking in person is often not likely, other things like spelling and grammar are an 'indicator' of wider professional dealings.  

A misspelling or two on the internet is not a huge deal; what is a big deal is giving the public the impression that one is careless as an individual, and gives a negative impression of the poster, their employer/business, and the industry as a whole.

Caleb
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Scott Deeter on October 11, 2008, 12:39:38 pm
I guess this is the way to break in a newbie, but c'mon everyone this is the LOUNGE, not the LAB. According to my count, the last 25 now 26 replies (with mine) have nothing to do with the true topic at hand. I guess I felt the need as did with the last 24 replies to reply to the "New" topic at hand (The use of using the fucking spell checker). How many times have I read about adding noise to the board with wasted bandwidth since 1999 (when I joined originally) with all being asked in a nice way to help reduce it. Then we have this, that seems to show in multiple posts.

Hmm, talk about being Professional, I've also noticed the use of foul language being used a little more lately (as I have used above). Since when has the use of "Fuck" or Fucking" been Professional in a post or reply though it seems to be accepted in most of the forums that I've read Rolling Eyes

Since the Spell Checker seems to be an important factor now days, is anyone willing to go up to the LAB with copying and pasting all the posts in word and make replies for every post that has a mispelled or misused word with correcting whom ever the post or reply was made by Razz

Regarding "My" thoughts, I read a post or reply and if I can understand it, I'll then make a suggestion or to help in any way I can. I do it without putting it under a magnifying glass or running it through a spell checker first.

Fuck It, I'm posting this "As is", I don't feel like going through the spell checker to see if and then questioning myself on which words it gives to use. Hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to say (write) Rolling Eyes
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Scott Deeter on October 11, 2008, 01:23:45 pm
Since I'm still in a shit mood, I thought I'd bring this to the attention of some here regarding the Professional aspect of the site in general. The LAB was intended for the "Pro's" with the LOUNGE created more for the newbies & weekend warriors to help reduce noise in the LAB for the Professional's. I guess nubers don't lie or when seen makes a difference. Since the LOUNGE was created for us little guys, why are those trying to make it like the LAB, when there IS a place for the true professional?

Maybe when and if we reach the Professional state (as some have done), we then should be Professional in all aspects of life. Using words correctly and again using that fuking spell checker, but I don't think the Professional should need the spell checker as they should already know how to communicate in the Pro and correct manner already, as was mentioned.

Looks to me like the down under's have the ball rolling mostly.

index.php/fa/18381/0/

Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Tom faderjockey Brandis on October 11, 2008, 01:30:41 pm
Well said Scott.

Tom
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Randy Pence on October 11, 2008, 02:16:21 pm
Well, the domain for both the lab and lounge is "prosoundweb.":p

However, if we are really going to go off on what is professional and what is not, if i had to choose between 2 engineers with equal ears and skill sets, I'd pick the one that wasn't so fucking anal retentive.  Yes, there are some common errors, but if they really annoy someone enough to question all of their abilities, ignore the user and enjoy the smugness of never getting their input.
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Charlie Zureki on October 11, 2008, 04:47:53 pm
Randy Pence wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 13:16

Well, the domain for both the lab and lounge is "prosoundweb.":p

However, if we are really going to go off on what is professional and what is not, if i had to choose between 2 engineers with equal ears and skill sets, I'd pick the one that wasn't so fucking anal retentive.  Yes, there are some common errors, but if they really annoy someone enough to question all of their abilities, ignore the user and enjoy the smugness of never getting their input.



Randy,

If it's my Sound Co. or My Gig, I'd pick the guy that IS anal retentive. Especially in LIVE Audio. Fun is fun, work is work, and stupidity or ambivalence should be left at the door.

As you and many others have stated, spelling and grammatical errors do happen, even to the highly educated "Professionals". Although the computer cannot correct for grammatical errors, it can, with a simple keystroke, correct for most spelling errors.

If a Poster has the ability to get to this site, they should have the ability to use the spell-checker.

The Op did offer an apology... but, it was phrased as a New Millennium, "non-apologetic"- apology. And, I'd guess that the OP's detractors that responded are "just plain tired of hearing" this method.

The greater majority of the Posters to this Site take Audio seriously, and that is what separates this Site from most others.

Serious people get serious answers. Blathering, drunken/high, or inconsiderate posts should get the same inconsideration.

Hammer



 




 
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Randy Pence on October 11, 2008, 06:10:21 pm
I agree that posting in a coherent state of mind is a great advantage to users of the forum, but I doubt the OP is the first to come on here in a less than teetoller state, including users that we have collectively gained much from.

In a high pressure work environment, I prefer to have a team that is relaxed yet competent.  Semantics are not issues I want to worry about when getting a job done.  If it can be inferred that spelling errors result in sloppy work, I don't indulge in that.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 12, 2008, 01:10:04 am
I find it highly unlikely that spelling really was big deal to anyone here considering how easy it was to understand the errors of the OP.

My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.

Cliff notes: Spelling is not likely the real issue here. Egotism is likely the real issue at hand.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Walter Wright on October 12, 2008, 02:04:42 am
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:10


My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.

Cliff notes: Spelling is not likely the real issue here. Egotism is likely the real issue at hand.

dammit, my stupid computer must have logged me onto harmony central by mistake again  Mad
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on October 12, 2008, 10:05:54 am
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 07:10

I find it highly unlikely that spelling really was big deal to anyone here considering how easy it was to understand the errors of the OP.

My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.

Cliff notes: Spelling is not likely the real issue here. Egotism is likely the real issue at hand.


Oh come on you guys...I'll sum this up issue by issue:

"Mr. Moderator bad guy":
The complaint about spell checker appeared here but I suspect it was more a matter of the "drop that made the glass run over" than any especially bad mistakes made by any certain poster in this thread.  AND i believe that no poster was mentioned specifically in the initial complaint about spelling.

Spelling/grammar:
No, it doesn't mean that you are unprofessional just because you are a sloppy speller, but after all, the "spell check" is right there and may be used for free, why not (I know I will get better at this from now on)?  There are written and unwritten rules on this forum and that is what quite possibly makes it the best on the web.  There are so many forums that have an "accept all and everything"-policy and after a while they just turn to hogwash, including all kinds of spam, trolling and writing in dialects that can hardly be understood.  So what if it means that posting here demands a tiny bit more effort than on most forums?  The payback is worth it!

One of the "big boys" and long time posters on here was recently made aware of the fact that it was sometimes difficult to read his posts.  His reply?  "That would annoy me to, I'll do better".  If he handles (polite) criticism this well (I really respect that), I'm sure our newbie OP can also.

Profanity:
My mother always told me "if you swear it means you are not smart enough to word yourself politely".  There are many smart people on here that swear unnecessarily, I don't understand why.  If at least semi-correct spelling is a requirement here, why not extent this to using generally courteous language?

Drunk posting:
Posting drunk is not a good idea for several reasons, although it doesn't by any means indicate that you would go to work drunk.  If I have, let's say, car trouble, and a buddy of mine gives me the phone number of his friend that I can call for advice while fixing my car, I certainly would make sure I was sober when I made the call - it's just respectful towards the person being asked for advice.

Flaming newbies:
Although newbies sometimes get a harsh welcome here (SOMETIMES too harsh IMO) I think "we newcomers" need to adhere to the rules here, written as well as unwritten.  Making this into a name-calling match is taking this nowhere - let's all say sorry and get back to play.

I'm kinda hoping this sums it up, actually - have a nice day everyone Razz

Edit:  Spelling:  too/to
Edit:  Spelling g should be f
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Charlie Zureki on October 12, 2008, 10:36:04 am
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 00:10

I find it highly unlikely that spelling really was big deal to anyone here considering how easy it was to understand the errors of the OP.

My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.

Cliff notes: Spelling is not likely the real issue here. Egotism is likely the real issue at hand.



Mark,

 I've never met a "Professional" Sound Guy with more than 10 years of experience that didn't have some degree of an Ego.

But, I believe you're confusing Ego with the No-Bullshit, straight forward, attitude that many of the responders have displayed on this thread.

These posters that you and some complain of, have "made their bones", sweating, bleeding and making their living from the Professional Sound Reinforcement business for many years.

These "Egotists" as you claim, have learned from the long-hour days, the disorganized Events, the inexperienced or inept Producers/ Promoters, that have made stupid mistakes, stupid changes, or the "OOPs Omissions" over many hundreds or thousands of Gigs over the years.

They have learned that in their day to day work, they have little time trying to decipher blatherings, or the unclear ramblings of the people around them. IT MAKES MORE WORK FOR ALL INVOLVED, when a conversation is NOT CLEAR.

The requests of the many is simple in this FORUM:

1.) GET TO THE POINT
2.) Include all important Information
3.) USE A REAL NAME when registering
4.) Use the spell-checker

These are simple requests and apply to everyone. If a Poster respects the opinions of the Forum enough to ASK questions, the Poster should reciprocate by showing respect when Posting.

It's really very simple. To shift the blame of a lazy poster, while calling someone an Egotist is just lame.

Finally, I'm certain Mac can defend himself and this Forum's position without my help.

Hammer  








 
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 12, 2008, 01:21:37 pm
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:10

My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.
You are correct that this is not the first time I have made this point, I doubt it will be the last either. I'll assume you left the misspelling in your post to make a point.

Mac
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Jeff Babcock on October 12, 2008, 03:10:37 pm
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:10



My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined.

Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos.




Please tell me this is some sort of joke. Rolling Eyes

You are jumping to conclusions about people who you've probably never met, and then posting things that are the equivalent of burning a bridge.....

I don't need to defend Mac, my point is not that.  My point is that the pro sound industry is not a very large community relatively speaking.  If you have something against Mac or the other posters, that's fine - you are entitled to your opinion... but voicing that on a public forum read by a good percentage of pros in the industry is not doing yourself any favors.  Be careful what you post lest it come back to bite you later.


Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 12, 2008, 04:24:06 pm
Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:04

dammit, my stupid computer must have logged me onto harmony central by mistake again  Mad



Your brand of sarcasm isn't very professional. That may not sit so well with some people, myself not included.
Title: Re: Your opinion
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 12, 2008, 05:02:56 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 12:21

Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:10

My guess is that Mac Kerr has a big and fragile ego and his way of stroking his ego and at the same time building up his fragile ego was to debase the less literarily inclined. Other bandwagon bashers decided to jump in and take the side of our egotistical moderator to boost their own egos. This is not the first time Mac has made this kind of demonstration.
You are correct that this is not the first time I have made this point, I doubt it will be the last either. I'll assume you left the misspelling in your post to make a point.

Mac



For amusement purposes I copied, pasted and spell checked that message. Mind you, I did not spell check when I originally posted that message. Two words came up as misspelled. One was bashers which is slang anyways and the other was literarily. Interestingly, literarily exists in my dictionary (printed) and it is in dictionary dot com. It is a related form of literary and it is an adverb. So, either something isn't right with the spell check or something isn't right with my dictionary.

I did not leave any misspellings with the intention making a point. In fact, there were no misspellings.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Dave Rickard on October 12, 2008, 05:43:06 pm
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 14:24

Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 01:04

dammit, my stupid computer must have logged me onto harmony central by mistake again  Mad



Your brand of sarcasm isn't very professional. That may not sit so well with some people, myself not included.


Other people, however, may find it tastefully subtle, and a hilariously clever example of well placed irony.
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 12, 2008, 07:32:58 pm
My "opion" in that DJ posts belong somewhere else, preferably a different website.  I've said it many times before, but the ownership of PSW seems to feel differently.

It's also my opinion that FLAT view needs to be disabled on this forum; posters that don't use the appropriate "reply" button make it very difficult to follow a thread because their replies don't follow... but site administration seems to disagree with that, too, so I live with it.

Would you like another opinion?  I have lots of them! Cool

Have fun, good luck

Tim Mc
Title: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 12, 2008, 07:33:28 pm
Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 17:02

For amusement purposes I copied, pasted and spell checked that message. Mind you, I did not spell check when I originally posted that message. Two words came up as misspelled. One was bashers which is slang anyways and the other was literarily. Interestingly, literarily exists in my dictionary (printed) and it is in dictionary dot com. It is a related form of literary and it is an adverb. So, either something isn't right with the spell check or something isn't right with my dictionary.

I did not leave any misspellings with the intention making a point. In fact, there were no misspellings.


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Walter Wright on October 12, 2008, 08:41:51 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:33


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac

op*i*on (oh-pee-yun) n. an inappropriately defensive or hostile response by a neophyte or amateur to advice or correction from an expert, often accompanied by unwarranted profanity.
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Charlie Zureki on October 12, 2008, 08:48:39 pm
Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:41

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:33


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac

op*i*on (oh-pee-yun) n. an inappropriately defensive or hostile response by a neophyte or amateur to advice or correction from an expert, often accompanied by unwarranted profanity.




 Walter,

   thank you for the definition... seems to fit this thread very well.  Very Happy

I will try to get this definition entered into the Wikipedia, crediting you as the source.

Cheers,
Hammer
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Brendan Maroney on October 12, 2008, 08:53:37 pm
Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 20:41

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:33


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac

op*i*on (oh-pee-yun) n. an inappropriately defensive or hostile response by a neophyte or amateur to advice or correction from an expert, often accompanied by unwarranted profanity.



HA.

Brendan
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Dick Rees on October 12, 2008, 09:12:41 pm
Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:41

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:33


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac

op*i*on (oh-pee-yun) n. an inappropriately defensive or hostile response by a neophyte or amateur to advice or correction from an expert, often accompanied by unwarranted profanity.



Wright on!!!!!!!! Very Happy
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Andy Peters on October 12, 2008, 10:19:07 pm
Walter Wright wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 17:41

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 19:33


Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac

op*i*on (oh-pee-yun) n. an inappropriately defensive or hostile response by a neophyte or amateur to advice or correction from an expert, often accompanied by unwarranted profanity.


Fuck yeah!

-a
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Mark Hobbs on October 13, 2008, 02:28:48 am
Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 18:33

Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac


Since you did no specify which post you were talking about when you said "your post" I assumed you were talking abut the post you quoted. It's fairly clear that you were referring to a post unrelated to the one you quoted.
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Charlie Zureki on October 13, 2008, 08:32:57 am
Mark Hobbs wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 01:28

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 18:33

Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac


Since you did no specify which post you were talking about when you said "your post" I assumed you were talking abut the post you quoted. It's fairly clear that you were referring to a post unrelated to the one you quoted.



Mark Hobbs/Matt Collins.... what's the difference?

Hammer
Title: Re: Your opion
Post by: Stephen Payne on October 13, 2008, 09:08:12 am
I love a good argument but since this thread isn't related to sound reinforcement and may reflect on the forum, I think it belongs in the Basement.
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on October 13, 2008, 09:08:26 am
Charlie Zureki wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 08:32

Mark Hobbs wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 01:28

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 12 October 2008 18:33

Sorry, my dictionary must be missing something, The nearest spelling for "opion" I have is either opine, or opium.
index.php/fa/18398/0/

Mac


Since you did no specify which post you were talking about when you said "your post" I assumed you were talking abut the post you quoted. It's fairly clear that you were referring to a post unrelated to the one you quoted.



Mark Hobbs/Matt Collins.... what's the difference?

Hammer

Laughing  Laughing
Thanks for being the curmudgeonly gent, Hammer!
Mark, the thing that gets me here is you saying that Mac has too much ego, or is an egotist? (Actually, the only difference between him and his predecessors is the fact he uses the "lock" feature to greatly benefit the forums more often than either of them did.. Very Happy )
As Charlie points out, there are a lot of experienced folks out there who do have a right to a bit of self esteem for their paid years in blood, sweat, toil, and knowledge.
It would be nice if elders would give respect to their juniors.. but it ain't gonna happen in this biz. Just because an average 25-year-old has computer skills good enough to become CIO of a multibillion $ company.. doesn't mean I'll give them the nod for every other profession out there.. where experience and practiced skill count for a great deal.
Agree with Steve below; maybe this thread is ripe for the basement..  Rolling Eyes
Regards,
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Charlie Zureki on October 13, 2008, 10:28:45 am
Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 08:08



As Charlie points out, there are a lot of experienced folks out there who do have a right to a bit of self esteem for their paid years in blood, sweat, toil, and knowledge.
It would be nice if elders would give respect to their juniors.. but it ain't gonna happen in this biz.



Hello Mike,

Thanks for your confidence, but I didn't necessarily mean that "Experienced Folks" should not give respect to "their juniors", or that the "juniors" don't deserve respect.

Everyone that shows respect, deserves respect.

What I WAS trying to say, is that the longer a person has been in the Business, the more they have learned that wishy-washy conversations, unclear communications are not only disruptive, and time "wasters", but, can be the reason for resentments and anger from some. (ever experience a person on a Gig losing their temper?)

When I work a Gig, if I ask a DIRECT question, I WANT A DIRECT ANSWER.... if you don't know the answer... say so.

When I work a Gig...

Make sure any of your Paperwork, or Labeling is Legible:

PRINT

If it's your I 9's, W-2's or other payroll paperwork,and I can't read it, you may NOT get Paid in a timely manner!

Don't answer any questions from the client that may be a touchy subject, refer them to the PROPER PERSON.

Cute names that you've made up for common Sound Gear are great, but LEAVE them at home! If the rest of the Crew doesn't know what you're talking about, in an emergency, you're just going to piss everyone off.


That's what I was referring to, being Direct.

Cheers,
Hammer








 
Title: what may be a good title for Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Christian Tepfer on October 13, 2008, 11:11:27 am
Is it just me?

I would like to see a descriptive title, giving a bit more information than "opinion" well-spelled or not.

Something like "opinion on subs" would have made me more than happy above this thread.


Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Scott Deeter on October 13, 2008, 11:14:49 am
Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 09:08

Agree with Steve below; maybe this thread is ripe for the basement..  Rolling Eyes
Regards,


Yes I'd agree also now. It's a shame though as this thread really (to me that is) started out with a fairly basic question or two looking for a few opinions or suggestions that just turned into a bunch of bull shit. Even the original Sig may have had a little truth to it as this is a place to gain knowledge and to better yourself with running or understanding gear better. So there could possibly be many shitty sound techs out there, but what's wrong with that with them coming here to get better, isn't this the place to go to for information and the understanding of Sound Reinforcement.....correctly for the most part?

Just think, this all started with this:

Kevin Geen wrote on Wed, 08 October 2008 18:23

I am just curious to see what you guys think. I'm looking for opinions on what type of subs I should use. I basically DJ for crowds of 50-600 depending on the event and venue. I'm running EV eliminator on the top on my old school Peavey CS800. The big, 70 pound monster lol, and have a Peavey SP218 for the bottom on a bridged CE2000 amp. Although it fills a medium/small sized room, I know I need more.

I've been bumming around this site reading about all other subs out there, and i'm not sure if the Peaveys are right for me. But this is where I want your opinion. I am debating between another SP218, or I was looking at the Yorkville UCS1.

I was probably going to pick up the QSC RMX2450's, I figure I could run 2 UCS1's on 1 amp, or 1 SP218. For the music I play, it's mostly, 70's, 80's, rock, and hip hop. It's the majority of what I play. Any suggestions?


Then the sig line was hit (with apologies made for them I may add), then the spell checker, then in defense with having a few drinks, then the thread just swerved all over the place. Just think, if the question at hand was just answered, there would be many LESS pages to this thread, and also less noise added.

I'm under the impression that nobody is forced to reply to any post in any of the forums here, but if you choose to, I'd like to think it's in a helping way for the most part. There's a reply here that states "Simple Terms to post here", well I'd also like to mention if you don't like how a post is written, in very simple terms DON"T REPLY THEN (if it doesn't meet your criteria). We all have that choice don't we Rolling Eyes
Title: Topic swerves
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 13, 2008, 11:49:47 am
Scott Deeter wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 11:14

Then the sig line was hit (with apologies made for them I may add), then the spell checker, then in defense with having a few drinks, then the thread just swerved all over the place. Just think, if the question at hand was just answered, there would be many LESS pages to this thread, and also less noise added.

I'm under the impression that nobody is forced to reply to any post in any of the forums here, but if you choose to, I'd like to think it's in a helping way for the most part. There's a reply here that states "Simple Terms to post here", well I'd also like to mention if you don't like how a post is written, in very simple terms DON"T REPLY THEN (if it doesn't meet your criteria). We all have that choice don't we Rolling Eyes


I don't think topic swerves are a bad thing. That is how real conversations work. Sometimes you get led off in a different direction, and maybe you learn something new you didn't expect. If you don't want to follow the swerve it is easy to see where it happened, and you can just avoid that branch. There is no "noise" added here, just information that wasn't what the OP asked about. As far as responding or not, since you don't seem to like the way this thread turned, you could have followed your own advice. Of your 3 posts (so far) to this thread, not one of them addressed the OP's original question, all of them were part of the topic swerve you seem so opposed to.

These forums are for open discussion. They are not a free library where you get to ask your question and have 10 people answer it, with the answer you wanted to hear. It is also a moderated forum, not a Usenet group. The moderators are here to maintain a certain level of order, and professionalism. I think the respect that this site has in the industry is due, at least in part, to that level of professionalism.

You can respond or not to whatever topics you want, but I think the moderators here will continue to let discussions swerve in whatever direction they will. And the moderators will continue to maintain order as they see fit, including suggesting that members pay attention to what they're writing, and how that makes them appear to the community in general.

Mac
Title: Re: My Opinion
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on October 13, 2008, 05:31:22 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 17:05

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 19:42

Hey Mister Grumpypants...  Very Happy

The spell-check feature here on LAB doesn't look at the thread's title.

Au contraire. It found the misspelled word in the subject line when I ran it.

Mac


Yes, you are right. I wasn't looking in the right place for the PSW spellcheck function and was only seeing the same functions coming from Mozilla Firefox, the browser I use. Sorry to have misled you.  Confused

-Bink
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on October 13, 2008, 07:31:05 pm
Charlie Zureki wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 10:28

Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 08:08



As Charlie points out, there are a lot of experienced folks out there who do have a right to a bit of self esteem for their paid years in blood, sweat, toil, and knowledge.
It would be nice if elders would give respect to their juniors.. but it ain't gonna happen in this biz.



Hello Mike,

Thanks for your confidence, but I didn't necessarily mean that "Experienced Folks" should not give respect to "their juniors", or that the "juniors" don't deserve respect.

Everyone that shows respect, deserves respect.

What I WAS trying to say, is that the longer a person has been in the Business, the more they have learned that wishy-washy conversations, unclear communications are not only disruptive, and time "wasters", but, can be the reason for resentments and anger from some. (ever experience a person on a Gig losing their temper?)

When I work a Gig, if I ask a DIRECT question, I WANT A DIRECT ANSWER.... if you don't know the answer... say so.

When I work a Gig...

Make sure any of your Paperwork, or Labeling is Legible:

PRINT

If it's your I 9's, W-2's or other payroll paperwork,and I can't read it, you may NOT get Paid in a timely manner!

Don't answer any questions from the client that may be a touchy subject, refer them to the PROPER PERSON.

Cute names that you've made up for common Sound Gear are great, but LEAVE them at home! If the rest of the Crew doesn't know what you're talking about, in an emergency, you're just going to piss everyone off.


That's what I was referring to, being Direct.

Cheers,
Hammer


Hammer,
Thanks for the clarification and correction.. I don't wish to put words in your mouth that aren't there..  Embarassed
While I hear what you are saying about "direct" communications, the fact is the customer is the person we most often have the issues with (ever do a corporate or few, you know what I mean..), and getting impatient or mad at them can be a bad move - as I'm sure you know. Even with colleagues, I recognize that no 2 people think or understand everything the same.. therefore, a bit of diplomacy and show of polite respect is necessary.. Right up to the point where they clearly show a dispostion to do the wrong thing.. OR WORSE.. what they're asserting a point about stuff that is either unsafe, wrong, or will cause you grief with [your] customer.. then it's time to pull out the verbal hammers and nail pullers.. you will have to do a very fast bit of verbal demolition and rebuild in a hurry to save the customer, yourself, and the Tom Fool who just ate up your graciousness.. Mad  

Regards,
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Travis Watson on October 13, 2008, 09:09:54 pm
This thread has gone way wrong, at least I tried to give my opinion on the original topic. For all those that swerved it to never land you might try here, http://www.dailywritingtips.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4
and post that they have the wrong kick mic for that over head tambourine input. Or maybe there is to much comb filtering in homonymns, point is this is audio not a college English forum. What if you were from another country and you dont structure the sentences right wright rite. Exiled and off with their heads is that it. This is the lounge lets not get all over professional to show off to those who dont care how you spell. Not everyone goes to college and I have seen money wasted on some that did, and came out dumber than they went in but with a piece of paper that says I'm smarter than you. But maybe not smarter than a 5th grader. We have to deal with Please knock the door or one I saw today at the restaurant,  bathroom is closed to be clean. Or Jamins favorite, why you kick my dog he no bark you. Ahh South Texas.
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Dick Rees on October 13, 2008, 09:20:39 pm
Attention to detail is what sets the outstanding worker apart from the average.  Slipshod performance in any facet of the daily routine is indicative of a less than professional attitude. IMHO
Title: Re: A matter of opinion, or not
Post by: Scott Smith on October 13, 2008, 09:53:32 pm
I didn't find anything "professional" in the 2 pages of this thread.  And now I have lowered myself to the same level with my reply. Shocked