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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => Road Test FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Bennett Prescott on April 18, 2008, 05:11:25 pm

Title: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Bennett Prescott on April 18, 2008, 05:11:25 pm
It's always nice to come home to a present, and the upstanding folks at APB Dynasonics saw fit to let me demo one of their brand new ProRack Monitor model M1016 mixers for my birthday! I've literally just opened the box today and taken some photos, but I'll have plenty of use for it coming up, and of course anyone else who'd like to take a spin is welcome to borrow it.

Yes, that means these are now shipping and you can even have one for yourself.

If you haven't heard of the fine mixers coming out of Totowa, NJ on the LAB yet, I don't know what rock you've been living under. Many of us LABsters have been having extremely positive experiences with APB Dynasonics' excellent analog mixers, and there's no reason to expect anything but smiles from the new rack mount set, but that's my job to find out.

The M1016 offers the following features (shamelessly copied from their website):

I've played around with this unit on a few trade show floors already, and it's well built and feature packed... the ProRack series is really unbeatable in terms of quality and feature density. If you need to go small but still need a real feature set and the sound quality of a full frame analog board, I know of no alternative. 8 stereo/mono mixes plus 2 mono mixes, each with its own set of meters and little fader for a bus in (tracks, anyone?)... any show you could reasonably bring a compact mixer to, this mixer can handle. It would also make a great matrix, come to think of it.

For now, I leave you with some photos:
http://www.bennettprescott.com/images/apbapril08/Thumbnails/6.jpg
http://www.bennettprescott.com/images/apbapril08/Thumbnails/9.jpg
http://www.bennettprescott.com/images/apbapril08/Thumbnails/10.jpg
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 18, 2008, 11:46:55 pm
Bennett-

I'm amazed at how Olga gets all that to fit.  She's a tremendous part of APB.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on April 19, 2008, 07:12:55 am
Bennett,
 Cool pics!  Thanks for the excellent description of the ProRack Monitor.  One correction:  the M1016 does not use concentric knobs.  Instead they use these cute little mini slide faders mounted horizontally under each channel miix send pot.  (They use the same slide faders mounted vertically next to the master send pots to squeeze in a line return on every mix bus.  There is a LOT of stuff packed into a LITTLE space.  This thing is going to be a killer mixer for for touring bands that are carrying their own ear rig and can fit into 16 channels.  We got our demo copy this week and it's of to it's first show this weekend doing monitor duty for a "Jazz Giants of Tomorrow" festival we do each year.  I'll post a review after we have done a few shows.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: John Petrucelli on April 19, 2008, 02:25:24 pm
Steve,
You're right (of course), for each mix, there is a rotary level control and a mini slide fader for pan.
But to Bennett's defense, we actually have the wrong info on our website (how did that happen Embarassed ).
Thanks for the correction (we'll fix the error).

JP
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Bennett Prescott on April 21, 2008, 11:45:23 am
Oops, thanks, Steve! Teaches me not to nit-pick my stolen copy.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Langston Holland on April 21, 2008, 01:04:40 pm
Hi John:

What's the best castered "gig case" solution you guys have seen for the ProRack series? I'd like something that holds the mixer at the top with approx. 14 available rack spaces underneath.

Thanks!
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Chuck Augustowski on April 21, 2008, 06:00:05 pm
Sorry, I had this corrected in our literature but I forgot to make this correction on our web site.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics

index.php/fa/15408/0/
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Dave Muddiman on May 04, 2008, 07:03:47 pm
<img src= http://a615.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/36/l_c1a21b376 d47dc0cf59429b14381fd36.jpg>

I'm Dave Muddiman of Starground Audio Newark Delaware.  I sell a roadcase that is made for the APB ProRack line.  It's strong and heavy duty - made by a well recognized builder with high standards.

<img src= http://a732.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/41/l_138fec691 93e6e04a4d8eaef0c25d80b.jpg>

Shown is the design of the case and doghouse for my own use (I hope the images show, see more pictures at http://myspace.com/davemix ), but other features are also available, like rounder corners, 8 handles instead of 6, an area for labeling channels, and as much or as little foam as you desire.  You can also vary the thickness of the wood, and therefore the total weight It's hard to scratch the outside of the case, but when you do, you'll notice the color wont be changed and the box will look fine.

<img src= http://a908.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/2/l_f5f6eabb81 423cfa18d5ed295a946f03.jpg>
Monitor World - 2 APB ProRack-M linked by interconnect

As you may already know good people, APB has chosen not to sell a case for their products and they do not endorse any case manufacture. However John and Taz (the B and P in APB) have seen the case and were pleased.  There were also concerned that the case was 50 lbs, which added to the ProRack which they worked so hard to keep as light as possible (about 30 lbs) - So please understand the APB products are sturdy but not that heavy.

If you want your APB equipment to be safe on the road, I'd go with something strong like what I sell.  APB mixers sound great, and will last for years, so keep it safe.

Otherwise, there is a lot of cheap plastic road cases that fit both the Allen Heath Mixwizard and the APB ProRack series.  To me there's no middle ground when it comes to being tour-ready.

Best wishes.  I'm here to help.  Anyone interested can call me.

I'm also an APB dealer for my area.  I can sell complete customized road packages - again not officially recognized by APB.

David Muddiman
Starground Concert Audio
302-593-2621 cell/anytime

<img src= http://a98.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_c2467a95395 e563231e7379ae73936d1.jpg>
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Dave Muddiman on May 04, 2008, 07:15:14 pm
Lets see if I can add a few photos so you don't have to click links ...  Well just one.

index.php/fa/15658/0/
Title: Commercial messages
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 04, 2008, 08:36:06 pm
Dave, this post was in response to a question about a case for the ProRack, so it will stay, but commercial messages are not permitted on these forums.

Mac
Title: Re: Commercial messages
Post by: Dave Muddiman on May 05, 2008, 02:43:20 pm
Sorry about that, I'm still new to these postings.  I will stick within the guidelines of the forum in the future.  Thank you for your understanding. -Dave
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on May 12, 2008, 03:05:59 pm
We've put a dozen or so shows on the ProRack now and all of my guys are thrilled with it's performance.  It is quite simply a very high performance, full featured monitor desk packed into a 19" rack width package.  Typically, if a job required more than one monitor mix and and the budget didn't allow for 2 techs and an onstage monitor mix, I simply passed on the show.  Well, that's all changed now.  My guys came up with the setup shown in the attached pictures and they say they are completely comfortable giving a client 4 or even 6 mixes from FOH with this setup.  This means I can now put out very high quality small system packages with multiple monitor mixes and only one tech.  This opens up a whole new lower price strata to my clients for a flexible and compact package.  I am excited about this and the income potential it adds.  A tip of the hat and a thank you to my pals at APB!
index.php/fa/15791/0/
Title: Monitors from FOH - on steroids
Post by: Steve Payne on May 12, 2008, 03:07:27 pm
index.php/fa/15793/0/
Title: Re: Monitors from FOH - on steroids
Post by: Steve Payne on May 12, 2008, 03:10:13 pm
index.php/fa/15795/0/
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Sean Perryman on July 30, 2008, 12:35:58 pm
How does it compare with a Hear Tech MixBack or an A&H WZ3 12M?

http://www.music123.com/Allen---Heath-WZ3-12M-Mix-Wizard-Mon itor-Mixer-637567-i1276353.Music123?cm_mmc=$ (channel)$-_-Allen%20&%20Heath-_-Mixers-_-Allen%20&% 20Heath%20WZ3%2012M%20Mix%20Wizard%20Monitor%20Mixer&sou rce=ZWFRWXX&mr:trackingCode=D0425CA7-845D-DD11-98CA-0014 22107090&mr:referralID=NA

http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/mimomi16x12x.html
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on July 30, 2008, 01:53:01 pm
Sean Perryman wrote on Wed, 30 July 2008 17:35

How does it compare with a Hear Tech MixBack or an A&H WZ3 12M?

Favorably, IMHO.
More features and capabilities compared to both you mentioned.
Now, as for sound quality, I can only comment on comparison with A&H, which I've heard.
APB wins by .... well, much.

I can never make comment saying : Well, It's ok, if you consider how much it costs...'.

APB is very good, period !
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on July 30, 2008, 08:56:57 pm
Sean,
 I think you will find the APB ProRack is basically a major league console in a small frame.  Really quite a different animal than any other rack sized board I am aware of.
I agree with Alex, I tend to judge most products at this level of the market as better or worse considering the cost.  The APB simply stands out as good.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 01, 2008, 10:24:13 am
Am I missing something? Where's the actual "Road Test" of this thing?

Nick.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Bennett Prescott on November 04, 2008, 02:32:26 pm
Nick, this is my bad. I kept trying to shoehorn this guy into gigs, but it never quite worked out... nothing ever came up where I'd be able to get by with 16 channels. As Steve has attested above, it works great for him, but since I'm not doing my own gigs anymore and freelancing for others, I dropped the ball.

Unfortunately, the Road Test Pro Rack Monitor has been sold, another LABster mentioned to me that they were trying to get one but APB was backed up due to demand, so I arranged for them to get the one I had.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on November 05, 2008, 08:22:36 am
Hi Nick,
 Well, we have put a lot of miles on our House and Monitor versions of the ProRacks this season.  I have done a lot of small street festivals that fit quite nicely into the channel count of the ProRacks.  In fact, I would say that the channel count is the only "limiting' factor on these consoles (soon to be addressed by the ProDesk  Smile ).  These little desks have the features, build quality, and sound of a full sized mid/upper level console.  They are not for everyone.  If what you need is a real pro level console in a very small footprint, I think you will find the APB ProRacks are in a class of their own.
We truly love these little guys.  Hope that helps a little.  Feel free to email me if you have specific questions. All the best.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 10, 2008, 05:56:00 pm
That's about what I was expecting. I've been eying these boards since it was first announced (replacing the Crest XR-20 and XRM) and have been looking for negative reports. Haven't found anything short of "these idiots didn't put mutes on the aux masters!", which isn't a problem to me.
In regards to the limited channel count, if either of you (or anyone else, for that matter) has two of them, have you tried linking them together? I noticed that this was used by someone on APB's website. I've done this with a pair of the Crest boards a while back and it worked very well for what I was doing.

Nick.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Chuck Augustowski on November 10, 2008, 10:17:15 pm
index.php/fa/18896/0/

We have Mute Switches on all input channels and on each of the 8 Stereo Output master sections (but there was no room to put them on the two mono outputs).

The linking system works the same on both brands of consoles including the solo link system, but there are more buses on the APB ProRack-Monitor.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 11, 2008, 11:33:40 am
Chuck Augustowski wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 21:17

index.php/fa/18896/0/

We have Mute Switches on all input channels and on each of the 8 Stereo Output master sections (but there was no room to put them on the two mono outputs).

The linking system works the same on both brands of consoles including the solo link system, but there are more buses on the APB ProRack-Monitor.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics

I should have clarified better but, the mute on aux masters comment was directed toward the Prorack-House, no Monitor.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 11, 2008, 11:57:13 am
Nick Morgan wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:33


I should have clarified better but, the mute on aux masters comment was directed toward the Prorack-House, no Monitor.


More clarity and less pejorative is helpful in professional communication.

JR
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Chuck Augustowski on November 11, 2008, 01:23:42 pm
There simply was no physical room to include mute switches on each of the Aux Masters on ProRack-House and still have this product fit into a 10U space or without giving up other features. (But we did fit them onto ProRack-Monitor).

But the desk top version of this same mixer, ProDesk-4 includes mute switches on each of the aux master sections as shown below.

index.php/fa/18940/0/

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 15, 2008, 11:39:33 pm
John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:57

Nick Morgan wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:33


I should have clarified better but, the mute on aux masters comment was directed toward the Prorack-House, no Monitor.


More clarity and less pejorative is helpful in professional communication.

JR

Was that a dig? If so it was completely unnecessary.

Chuck Augustowski wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 12:23

There simply was no physical room to include mute switches on each of the Aux Masters on ProRack-House and still have this product fit into a 10U space or without giving up other features. (But we did fit them onto ProRack-Monitor).

But the desk top version of this same mixer, ProDesk-4 includes mute switches on each of the aux master sections as shown below.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics

Excuse me, again, but I was not complaining about the lack of Aux mutes on the ProRack-House. I mentioned it specifically as one of the few "complaints" that have been voiced. This post from the ProRack-House road test being the source of that opinion:
IsraelRaz wrote on Mon, 18 June 2007 16:44

Hi Bennet.
Did you compare the 1020 to the Venice 160 ?
I did, and I can tell you very simply that the Venice sounds warmer and better far away. description of so many features just covers up its weakness in sound quality and lack of mute buttons on all outputs and cheap chinese eq buttons.
 
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on November 16, 2008, 12:06:56 am
Nick,
 If you're going to site IsraelRaz as a source you'll be skating on thin ice.  I own a Venice.  A fine little board.  The APB ProRack kicks its ass on every front except channel count.   If you are thinking of buying a ProRack you just need to get your hands on one and then you can tell us your own opinion first hand.  If you're anywhere near Richmond, VA I'll loan you one of mine to try out on a gig.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 16, 2008, 12:55:10 am
This is actually kind of amusing at this point. I brought up the mute thing because it's the only complaint I've read. I never said I agreed with it. Just saying it's the only one.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Steve Payne on November 16, 2008, 09:06:18 am
Nick,
 Here's the rub.  Chuck Augustowski and John Roberts have decades of experience designing and marketing pro audio consoles.  They are well known and greatly respected here. Chuck has tried to respond directly to your complaint which you have so eloquently quoted by Mr. Raz.   IsraelRaz was a drive by that made a number of  bogus and rudely phrased complaints regarding the ProRack's performance based mainly on the fact that he didn't know how to operate a sweep hpf - and then wasn't man enough to publicly correct himself when he discovered his mistake.  He carries less than no weight here.  It's not really that amusing.
 Back to your original inquiry.  The APB ProRacks are both excellent professional tools of the highest caliber.  The only shortcoming I can think of in either of them is directly related to the constraints imposed by their physical size.  I have a copy of each in my warehouse in Richmond, VA and would be glad to let you use either or both of them on a real gig with no expectations of personal reward other than seeing the smile on your face when you returned them.  If I am not handy, there are likely other users here that would make the same offer.  Where are you located?  
 
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 16, 2008, 11:43:36 am
Nick Morgan wrote on Sat, 15 November 2008 22:39

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:57

Nick Morgan wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 10:33


I should have clarified better but, the mute on aux masters comment was directed toward the Prorack-House, no Monitor.


More clarity and less pejorative is helpful in professional communication.

JR

Was that a dig? If so it was completely unnecessary.




Consider it my attempt at helpful advice for future posts to keep the focus on getting answers to any accurately presented questions and away from clearly inflammatory speech like "idiots", which will just cause more responses like mine. Quoting or paraphrasing somebody else's pejorative remark does not make it any less objectionable in professional discourse.

"Clarity" is required to get useful answers. "Pejorative" just makes people defensive and less inclined to be helpful. If this doesn't make sense to you, then keep doing what you are doing, and you will keep getting what you get. At least you can be a good object lesson for others.

JR

Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Nick Morgan on November 16, 2008, 04:43:23 pm
I do not agree with IsraelRaz's opinions. The word "idiots" was used to convey the tone of his original post. I have nothing but respect for the people at APB and their products and I'm slightly irritated that I have respond to this. I also have respect for the professionals on this board. I've read thousands of posts and I am fully aware your skills credentials.

There was no reason for anyone to respond to me with any comment not directly related to the ProRack line. If you wanted to provide me with "helpful advice" you could just have easily sent me a PM and saved me the trouble of having to explain my actions. This will be the last post I make in this thread simply to avoid need to spend more of my time repeating this.

I still have every intention of purchasing a pair of ProRacks, however. If I'm ever in Virgina, I'll give you a call, Steve.

Nick.
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: Chuck Augustowski on November 16, 2008, 05:56:27 pm
I really don't see what the fuss is about.  Everyone has there opinions and we like to hear them.  I too would have like to have seen mutes on the ProRack-House aux outputs and we have listened to customers comments which is why they are on the desktop version of ProDesk.  I have given my explanation on why they were not there on ProEack-House.

I do not think Nick nor anyone else said anything out of line but were referring to what they had read, thought or experienced.  And everyone has the right to respond professionally which they did.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: bo putnam on February 19, 2009, 07:03:30 pm
Bennett / Steve...

Thanks for the posts, here.  I've read 'em over and over (and over).  

Just took delivery of one today - got tired of working medium sized halls with foldback and limited mixes.  

I'm getting the M1016 sorted out for a few gigs next weekend.  I've only trialed it a little bit in the shop but it is very impressive.  Overall quality and layout planning is genius.  Clearly marked, quick to visualize.  The sound quality is simply stunning.  Amazing stereo separation.

One question/comment for Chuck and or you'se guys: I knew ahead of time I was going to miss a talkback mic, but realize space is at a premium.  With everyone on IEM, it's going to be a lot of hand signals - no problem there.  But I've thought about using one of the last channels to get mixed as a talkback and then lastly adjusting that input into those mixes needing it.  How do you guys get around this?

I must admit, I'm getting jealous of our monitorgal...

Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: bo putnam on March 04, 2009, 07:27:18 pm
A solution found for a talkback mic.

I had a custom case made over at California Cases (Sound on Stage) - a real beauty.  I left the M1016 and the snakes with Cal Cases to make sure my design would fit everything.  When I was picking it all up, Jerry Pfeffer was admiring the design of the M1016 (Jerry sez "Hi", Chuck...), and I walked him through all the great features of the M1016, but lamented the lack of a talk-back mic.  Jerry proposed using the Mix 1-8 Line inputs - all we'd need was a mic preamp and line-level output which we could split.  "Yeah, an 8-way split - what could possibly go wrong?"...  

Instead, through some digging we found the RDL RU-MLD4 Mic/Line Distribution Amp - 1 in / 4 out.  I made a small fantail for the inputs, and wired back to the detachable terminal blocks.  Input gain to the RU-MLD4 is set with it's gain pot (+4 dB LED); individual Mix 1-8 input gains set by the faders on the control surface of the M1016.  

The talk-back loom (all white) is shown in the center of the patchbay - the RDL RU-MLD4 lives in the case bottom (left in the picture), right below the patchbay.
 
index.php/fa/21336/0/

Since I wasn't using the Mix Line inputs, this solution works really great.  
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: bo putnam on March 04, 2009, 07:29:41 pm
Here's a picture of the RU-MLD4 and input loom...

index.php/fa/21337/0/

Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: John Petrucelli on March 06, 2009, 02:57:35 am
Bo,
Nice job, glad you found a good solution.
Those Line-In jacks are handy for expanding the Mixer, or injecting line-level audio into any of the mix buses.
One thing though (maybe I should have responded earlier), you could have saved yourself some wire & plugs.
The Line-In jacks are daisy-chained normalled to each other (low numbered mix to high mix).
Just plugging into the Mix-1 line-in will feed all of the 8 mixes.
It's in the manual, but not indicated on the panel screening.
(Keep what you've got, of course, it works fine).

Post some pix of the completed rack; knob-side view for full effect!

Thanks,
JP
Title: Re: APB Dynasonics ProRack Monitor M1016
Post by: bo putnam on March 06, 2009, 02:18:55 pm
John Petrucelli wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 23:57

One thing though (maybe I should have responded earlier), you could have saved yourself some wire & plugs.
The Line-In jacks are daisy-chained normalled to each other (low numbered mix to high mix).  Just plugging into the Mix-1 line-in will feed all of the 8 mixes.


Rolling Eyes

See, it was a good idea!   Embarassed

FOTFL..  Felt oh-so-darn clever...  I spent a bunch of time on the block diagrams but apparently not enough "RTFM".  I somewhere saw they were normalled, but I guessed only wrt L / R but it never occurred to me normalled across all Mixes.  As I've said so many times with this beauty - genius! And, I didn't notice it on testing, as the Line inputs only meter post Mix fader - so, I only saw signal in the one channel I was testing.  

John Petrucelli wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 23:57

Post some pix of the completed rack; knob-side view for full effect!


Here you go.

index.php/fa/21398/0/

My case has a doghouse sufficient to hold all cables, without breakaways - I need everything together, no extra cable box.  That doghouse holds a 16/4 snake with stagebox (50-ft), 16ch fan-to-fan (30-ft; returns to house stage box), 16ch fan-to-fan (10-ft, Mix sends), built-in AC quad box, and loose AC strip (for IEM transmitters).  I stuck an Ashly Protea 4.24G beneath the M1016 (on inserts), for those times where someone might want a wedge - I can drive up-to 4 ch of wedge Monitor EQ from the M1016 position, when needed.   Smile

btw, the band is nuts about this upgrade.  Sound quality and mix control has elevated their game - it was grins all around last weekend.  

I gotta go - I'm gonna go dumb-down my talk-back loom and harvest some TRS...