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 1 
 on: Today at 08:51:45 am 
Started by Johannes Halvorsen - Last post by Johannes Halvorsen
So one explanation seems to be that the auto tune in Like a Prayer was set to chromatic and she was that much of that it chose the wrong note.
That would result in vocal in tune, only with the wrong notes, wouldn't it? Didn't sound that way to me.

 2 
 on: Today at 08:51:13 am 
Started by Wayne Smith2 - Last post by Scott Olewiler
I'll add that this doesn't have to be an exact science to make a big difference. If you just visually estimate how far your backline is to the mains and delay the mains accordingly, it 'll be close enough.

 I can still remember a hotel ballroom gig where I stupidly forget to delay the mains, then eventually realized it when mixing the 1st set on a tablet in the back of the room and things just didn't sound tight.  I quickly added the delay in the middle of a song and POOF!   Instant cohesion.

First time I ever got to A/B it live and it was quite eye opening how much of an impact it made.

 3 
 on: Today at 07:52:23 am 
Started by Bob Charest - Last post by Keith Broughton
Very amusing😄

 4 
 on: Today at 06:01:27 am 
Started by Jon Mulhern - Last post by Douglas R. Allen
DB Tech seems really great and they have some nice looking gear with nice looking specs.

Can anybody give me some real world, unbiased feedback on some of their offerings?  Items most interested in:
ES1203
ES1002
IG2T
IG3T
IG4T
Opera 10, 12
Sub 612, 615
Sub 15H, 18H

Please recommend anything similar to any of these.

The speaker I have been most impressed with by my own experience has been my DSR115s - which I regretted selling the second the guy drove away.

For context - I am a DJ who mainly does weddings and corporate events.  I occasionally work with a drummer and other live musicians. 

Speakers I can understand comparisons to:
Powered = K12, KW153, KW181, DXR12, DSR115, EV ELX122, JBL PRX710
Passive = EV Eliminator ii Dual 15, EAW 15

Curious about reliability and sound quality. 

Thanks community.  I am new here and looking forward to finally being a part of the many helpful discussions I have read over the years.

I was searching for something else and found this. A little late but here is something I did awhile ago.
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=168555.0

Douglas R. Allen

 5 
 on: Today at 02:20:27 am 
Started by Patrick Cognitore - Last post by Scott Holtzman
Pretty harsh, Mal, and also pretty off base, IMO.

I am a sideman in this band, doing my best to help make it sound as good as it can in any given circumstance. I have no say over bookings or budgets. I don't control how much the client decides to pay the band for a given engagement or whether they provide production when it's obviously desperately needed.

This particular gig is one the band does yearly in their hometown to be able to play publicly for local friends and fans. We mostly do regional private corporate/wedding work. I'm sure the band is taking a big pay hit just to do the gig. Since us sidemen get our standard rate for the gig, I'm guessing that the show may even be a loss for the business. In any case the bandleaders see a net benefit to doing the gig, despite the financial and logistical limitations.

This gig is not part of some nefarious plan to take work from a local sound company. Hell, in he past I've been that struggling local sound guy..I can assure you that I would not fault a band for doing this gig with their own gear.

I don't know all the specifics, but to bring on sound I'd guess it would double or triple the budget. But the budget for this gig is fixed by the client - a non-profit community event organization funded in part by the City.

How exactly is what we're doing taking work from a struggling local sound guy?

Are you saying the band should pass on the gig as some kind of principled stand against local non-profits not providing a big enough audio budget for their community summer concert series?

No Mal is exactly spot on.  This happens all the time, and the result is your band is not presented in the best light, the folks attending have a very fatiguing experience and overall it sucks.  I suppose you are going to mix from stage too?

It starts with the producer of the events.  They don't have the budget, don't know what questions to ask and have probably never hired production.

It then goes to an eager band that negotiates and accepts the gig.  Mal's point is very valid.  You guys could have said no.  If you are truly powerless I would do my job, play the bass, stay out of site as much as possible and watch the shit show ensue.

Then once the gig is accepted you end up earning way less than you should have and abuse your PA equipment by pushing it way outside it's design limits.

The problem is the same attitude usually extends to safety and other important issues.  Someone will pay $1000 for portable toilets without a thought but comes unglued at that same amount for someone to bring in 50k worth of production gear and labor.

It doesn't have to be this way.  We do these lawn chair gigs all summer long.  The good ones properly fund production (some even go too far hiring in Stagelines for poorly attended gigs, good salesmanship I guess) and start off with safe staging and power.  It's really a drop in the bucket compared to other expenses and done correctly the guests have such a better time.

Mal wasn't insulting you, you are trapped in a paradigm that you think you "have to do the gig".  No is a powerful word.  If enough people used it the world would be a better place.


 6 
 on: Today at 02:07:49 am 
Started by dave briar - Last post by Scott Holtzman
Yes, but to a different point I believe. The article as I read it focuses on whether hiding the SSID increases security or not. What appears to be more relevant here is whether hiding the SSID reduces the number of scans it will encounter by other devices or not.  I remember reading (probably in this forum?) the contention that hiding the SSID will actually increase the workload due to other devices repeatedly “trying harder” to identify a source that won’t identify itself.  Either way, I’ve left mine exposed.

This is exactly correct.   We are not doing this for security concerns, we are doing it for stability.  Capacity is also not a concerning for our applications.

Different requirements mean different options.  There is no good reason other than convenience to broadcast a SID.

If you have talent that wants to mix their own monitors that should be on a seperate AP anyway, not just a seperate VLAN and SSID on the same AP as you only have so much processing power and from a layer 2 perspective broadcast storms on one vlan can take down another.



 7 
 on: Today at 01:07:15 am 
Started by Jonathan Barrett - Last post by Tim McCulloch
I've had this idea in my mind for a long time now that dispersed sound may be the only way to mitigate huge reflections in tough rooms, would it make sense to deploy more relays and fills at a lower volume as to not "excite" the space? I also feel like drape might help a little but to what degree and placement (first reflection points?)

Trying to stay on topic, I'm assuming at this point that the DBX 360 needs a lot of human intervention in order to pull out EQ adjustments that were maybe incorrectly suggested, 50hz bumps because of poorly placed subs, timing issues etc, etc..

Side story: I just finished a show where my room was fairly large (170'x80'x24') but and I was getting the oddest, really short, flutter echo? It sounded almost exactly like a spring reverb, even from a single source of sound like a clap...odd.  :-\ The room was airwalls on all 4 sides.

Distributed systems are a valid approach to system design; when there is no practical point source design (hotel ball rooms/salons) and when a point source system cannot achieve sufficient intelligibility are a couple of good reasons. :D

Regarding your hotel acoustics:  many acoustic "charms" can be heard with simple impulse excitation - hand claps, dropping a book on a table or hard floor - but a lot of the time the noise floor of the room masks it.  A little "for instance" moment:  I had to do some physical measurements of our PAC's concert hall auditorium and under balcony area.  I've been in that space hundreds of times, but always with the air handling system running.  At 2am, it was silent and the flutter echo under the balcony (side to side, the up/down wasn't as bad) was plainly audible.  Similar acoustic charms were found in the middle of the house, too.  {/moment}  I'd encourage you to do a 'walk/clap/listen' next time you encounter something like that, it's very revealing.  Here's another "when you have the chance" things - hook up 1 subwoofer put it on a cheap furniture dolly and set it against a physical boundary like a wall (ideally in the center of a 40' long wall, but we can't be picky here), play some pink noise and listen as a helper moves it away from the wall (closer to you).  Baby baby, where did our sub go?  This is something I mentioned earlier - you don't need a DSP for physics to bite your butt here - and is how Otto Eq and a lot of humans get fooled into thinking the problem can be fixed with Majik Electronik.  Remember:  acoustic solutions to acoustic problems.

Marty McCann, the now retired clinician from Peavey Electronics has a white paper on boundary cancellation here:
http://assets.peavey.com/pv/support/soundsystems/new_boundary_cancellation.pdf

Getting back to tuning - tuning is getting the system to play nicey-nice with itself and my preference is that it exhibit linear operation.  That's when a change in the electrical input to the system results in an identical change in the acoustic output of the loudspeaker system.  That's the tabula rasa of PA.  Notice that I didn't say "flat", either...  With most "top box over a sub" type systems tuning is a one-time thing, or at least not a routine exercise.  It's the idea that you have a consistent and acoustically valid starting point every time.  The room may change but until you see what the room presents you, don't automatically assume the *PA tuning* must change.

Next comes voicing, making the PA tonally conform to your sonic desire.  This is where we might haystack the subwoofer send, where you might decide less 400Hz in L/R is what you need, or that with your band maybe a cut at 6.3kHz is the thing to do... but these are mostly subjective, artistic decisions you make based on how the rig sounds to you and how you want the band to be presented.  This is also where you'd make temporary main EQ changes based on venue variables.

Finally, if you need more gain before feedback, this is the time you ring out those last 2 or 3 feedback points.  Corrective EQ, so to speak.

PA tuning - transducer/pass band delays, drive levels, polarity, etc, once determined, get set in your 360.  If you find the system *always* needs a particular EQ change, make that at the 360's input EQ.  Do your voicing EQ with the console output EQs.

The way I might do things is certainly not the only way to achieve the desired result and I encourage thoughtful experimentation.

 8 
 on: Today at 12:38:07 am 
Started by Wayne Smith2 - Last post by Kevin Maxwell
I usually delay the mains to match where the drums are on stage for rock and pop. When doing a Big Band event or orchestra with delayed mains I have played with turning the delay on and off in a rehearsal and to me it really makes the sound more cohesive, I like to say it makes them sound more natural not like they are coming out of speakers. I also use it for almost everything that I do.

 9 
 on: Today at 12:32:25 am 
Started by Wayne Smith2 - Last post by Dave Garoutte
I like to delay any miced amps and the drums.
My SC performer has delay available on every input, so it's easy.
1.1ms per foot, from the sound source (amp, snare, etc) to the line of the mains; 10ft =11ms.
The allows the direct sound from the back line to approximately coincide with the miced signal coming through the PA.
Any vocals don't have enough direct energy to cause problems, so I don't delay them.
I find even on a small stage that the improvement in clarity is readily apparent.

 10 
 on: Today at 12:22:01 am 
Started by Wayne Smith2 - Last post by Wayne Smith2
I'm participating in a weekly small 'in the park gig coming up. We provide our own sound, in this case amplified acoustic instruments and vocals. We'll be covering few hundred people mostly on the lawn or seated to the side.
I visited last night's gig to get a taste of it from the audience side of things and perhaps ways I might improve on our gig.
The main thing I’d like to address is the sound stage image from the mains and the sources from the stage seeming like two disjointed things –rather than the one blending and reinforcing the blend from the stage.
I thought about our running stereo and using some panning, but frankly I have doubts about the approach. Whether by level differences or precedence effect, most of our audiences don’t even ‘hear the other speaker’ correct?

They say ‘sleep on it and see it refreshed :>)  This morning it occurred to me to revisit the precedence effect. The QU16 has delay options on its buses.
Where the goal is to reinforce and enhance a unified interesting ‘stereo sound stage image, would not letting the stage amps be first arrival do just that?

The trouble is I’m hardly ever out there’ to work things like this out. So here I am come to the source again.

I’ll add I also have us place our amps as far back as practical. Been doing this for quite a while now. Rather than ‘up near us at the mic, having them at some distance a bit more realistic view or their tone and balance.


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