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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 06:45:42 pm

Title: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 06:45:42 pm
Hi all!

Got an install where the customer wants to have something like the Bose L1 compact. (2 of them)

Since I am fairly impressed of the system, I want to deliver something as sleek but better sounding at a not too different price.

The system shall be active, have less of distortion, better freq. range and better sounding subwoofer(s).
Maybe a not so easy task since the L1's are pretty cheap and the form factor has to be "sleek". I think they will agree on 20-30% higher price on a better sounding rig and a little better SPL for DJ setups.

It will be used for piano bar / troubadour and DJ's for smaller crowds in a restaurant environment. This mobile system shall "not be seen, just heard".

Thankful for suggestions!

// Gustav

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 06:57:16 pm
It will be used for piano bar / troubadour and DJ's for smaller crowds in a restaurant environment. This mobile system shall "not be seen, just heard".

// Gustav

They really deserve the Bose.........
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 07:23:13 pm
They really deserve the Bose.........

Yep.. If I were the one to choose, I would put 2 SH Mini's and 1 TH Mini.

But I don't think they want to invest in anything not looking like a stick or as expensive as Meyer UPM-1P.

Something like the Meyer UP-4XP could be interesting. Any thoughts on them? The price to end customer is something like $2000 each if I got it right?
 
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 07:26:53 pm
Gustav.....


The deciding factor is probably the "mobile" qualification.  They'll be happier with the simple setup of the Bose (or something else with that form factor) until they're ready for something better.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 07:38:26 pm

Well.. Can't keep a natural smile up when somebody mention the L1's..  Sigh.. As long as it reinforces something and the customers are happy.. right?
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 07:53:06 pm
Well.. Can't keep a natural smile up when somebody mention the L1's..  Sigh.. As long as it reinforces something and the customers are happy.. right?

Jo.  Kund'r ä' korrekt i alla fall.........
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 07:57:35 pm
I knew that I have talked with you before ;)  You have relatives in Sweden right?
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 08:04:45 pm
I knew that I have talked with you before ;)  You have relatives in Sweden right?

Nej.  Bara vänner.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 08:11:46 pm
Någon inom ljudteknik man kanske känner?
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 08:15:41 pm
Jag har skrivet lit med Hasse Quesser i Stockholm.  Han jobber med Viktoria Tolstoy och flera.
Men jag känner mäst' folkmusiker bl. a. Mats Eden, Mats Berglund och Värmländska folk. 
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 24, 2011, 08:27:28 pm
Excuses for swedish chat everyone else reading ;)

Aha, jag känner inte Hasse personligen men ser honom på forum ibland. Viktoria Tolstoy har jag jobbat med flera gånger. Kul! Kommer säkert träffa honom någon dag, det brukar bli så förr eller senare. Folkmusik är mycket trevligt. Jag kör ljudet på en veckas vis-festival på somrarna, brukar träffa rätt mycket folkmusiker då. Alltid härligt folk och härliga efterfester, fiol och snaps :)
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 24, 2011, 08:52:41 pm
De' ä' mycket trevlig att forsöka att talar på Svenska.  De' ä' ganska länga sidan jag har varit is Sverige........hält för långt.  Tak för samtalet.

MVH

DR 
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on February 26, 2011, 04:56:09 am
De' ä' mycket trevlig att forsöka att talar på Svenska.  De' ä' ganska länga sidan jag har varit is Sverige........hält för långt.  Tak för samtalet.

MVH

DR

Yeah nice talking to you too, Swedish must be a strange language for foreigners. I went to Russia a couple of weeks ago. Man, I didn't understand a single word, trying to remember some standard words was very hard too.

Well, for everybody wondering about the Bose, I guess I have to let the customer decide what he wants, and that I think will be Bose.

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on February 27, 2011, 07:59:23 am
hey

There is at least one other company who makes a very similar product, i remember seeing one of their adverts in a magazine (L&SI i'm sure) but didn't pay a huge amount of attention so don't remember the brand name. I assume they would sound a bit better than the bose although haven't heard them myself so cant confirm that.

But at the end of the day, there is only so much you can do in these situations. As i'm sure you know in higher end clubs, restaurants and bars sound unfortunately tends to come a distinct last place behind décor, lighting etc etc  and they seem to have already decided on the "stick" form factor because of the way it looks.  All you can do is warn them that the sound isn't as good as it is in other more traditional products and that they are paying for the "look", and if they still decide they want it then you've done your job and all you can do is install it and move on.

Edit:  found the advert its by Renkus-Heinz, here's a link to the brochure pdf   http://www.renkus-heinz.com/support/marketing_sales-support/brochures/brochures_pdf/ICLive-Letter.pdf (http://www.renkus-heinz.com/support/marketing_sales-support/brochures/brochures_pdf/ICLive-Letter.pdf)


k
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Brad Weber on February 27, 2011, 09:34:55 am
Edit:  found the advert its by Renkus-Heinz, here's a link to the brochure pdf   http://www.renkus-heinz.com/support/marketing_sales-support/brochures/brochures_pdf/ICLive-Letter.pdf (http://www.renkus-heinz.com/support/marketing_sales-support/brochures/brochures_pdf/ICLive-Letter.pdf)
The ICLive is a steerable array and is on pretty much a completely different level than the Bose L1.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on February 27, 2011, 10:41:03 am
The ICLive is a steerable array and is on pretty much a completely different level than the Bose L1.

ha, isn't everything on pretty much a different level from Bose?   :P

lol, no in all seriousness i didn't really look into the product at all, just remember seeing it and thinking that superficially it reminded me of the Bose.

k
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on February 27, 2011, 10:43:26 am
oh and just saw it pictured next to a person for scale as well, MUCH bigger product than I thought it was from the press photo. Not really suitable at all for this application :)  lol

k

 
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 27, 2011, 10:59:43 am
Hi all!

Got an install where the customer wants to have something like the Bose L1 compact. (2 of them)

Since I am fairly impressed of the system, I want to deliver something as sleek but better sounding at a not too different price.

The system shall be active, have less of distortion, better freq. range and better sounding subwoofer(s).
Maybe a not so easy task since the L1's are pretty cheap and the form factor has to be "sleek". I think they will agree on 20-30% higher price on a better sounding rig and a little better SPL for DJ setups.

It will be used for piano bar / troubadour and DJ's for smaller crowds in a restaurant environment. This mobile system shall "not be seen, just heard".

Thankful for suggestions!

// Gustav


Community Entasys?

http://www.communitypro.com/index.php/product-list/102-entasys

JBL CBT?

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=89&MId=2

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 27, 2011, 11:02:16 am

Community Entasys?

http://www.communitypro.com/index.php/product-list/102-entasys

JBL CBT?

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=89&MId=2

Remember that the customer has stipulated a "mobile" system.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: drew gandy on February 27, 2011, 07:27:17 pm
Remember that the customer has stipulated a "mobile" system.

These are small and mobile. Never heard them but have a friend who has mixed on them and had good things to say. 

http://www.k-array.net/index.php?Itemid=255&option=com_zoo&view=item&category_id=30&item_id=154&lang=en

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 27, 2011, 07:50:42 pm
oh and just saw it pictured next to a person for scale as well, MUCH bigger product than I thought it was from the press photo. Not really suitable at all for this application :)  lol

k
It all a matter of compromise.  To some people not seeing "ugly loudspeakers" is more important than actual sound quality.

Now the people who are actually listening may not agree-but they are not the ones buying the system.

We have a customer who at the time of the install INSISTED that not seeing loudspeakers was the most important thing to them.

We explained the differences between what they wanted, the sound compromises as so forth, but they went for the "hidden" system anyway.

Now those people have moved on and the current owners are complaining about the sound quality.  We have explained to them what happened at the time-and they understand.

So now they are getting ready to buy another sound system.  One that will actually work well.  BUt it will be larger and will be seen, but they don't care.  THey just want it to work.

It is amazing what drives some people.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Geoff Doane on February 28, 2011, 12:48:04 pm
These are small and mobile. Never heard them but have a friend who has mixed on them and had good things to say. 

http://www.k-array.net/index.php?Itemid=255&option=com_zoo&view=item&category_id=30&item_id=154&lang=en

Definately have a look at these things.  I've only heard them demoed at a trade show, but at moderate volumes at least, they would seem to fit the bill.  I don't know how they compare in price to the Bose.

GTD
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Gustav Hedelund on March 03, 2011, 04:45:51 pm
Definately have a look at these things.  I've only heard them demoed at a trade show, but at moderate volumes at least, they would seem to fit the bill.  I don't know how they compare in price to the Bose.

GTD

I have looked at these K-array and heard good things about them, but the price of these are very high so it doesn't fit the bill size of 2x L1's.  Heard the Renkus-Heinz, well, it's a lot bigger system :P.

I ordered an HK Elements system for the customer, they were perfectly fine with the look and ease of setup. This is also a cheap system like the L1's and similiar form factor. I think in this case, this is the best I can do. Actually the dispersion fits the place a lot better than the wide-spreading L1's too.

Thanks for all input guys!

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Tim Padrick on March 20, 2011, 12:31:39 am
I've mixed on the big brother L1 M2 a number of times.  It can sound good, but is a terrible value.  And the sound varies more with distance that I would have thought.
Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Paul John Volzone on March 24, 2011, 03:11:19 pm
http://www.eaw.com/products/LS832.html  ?

Title: Re: Something else than Bose L1 compact?
Post by: Tom Young on April 18, 2011, 06:45:44 pm
http://www.eaw.com/products/LS832.html  ?

I'm not even sure it is still available (it is not listed on their website).

I have used these (and other CLA-series)  a few times for spoken word reinforcement systems and they were pretty good. I would never use one for music.

They also have no pole mounts or attachment points (threaded inserts) for pole mount plates. They're designed pretty much only for installation.