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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Subwoofer FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Matt Vivlamore on March 25, 2007, 09:47:24 pm

Title: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on March 25, 2007, 09:47:24 pm
other than the Tuba 36 Slim is there any other single 15" horn loaded subs out there?

I am looking at using Peavey Black Widows as the drivers (KADT model).

My tops are Yorkville U15s.

What about a UCS1 vs a Tuba 36 Slim?
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Antone Atmarama Bajor on March 26, 2007, 12:33:19 am
The New Danley Soundlabs TH-50 is a 15" driver I belive or is it 16".

Not DIY though.

I am curious about the TS params on that driver though.

Antone-
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on March 26, 2007, 08:07:55 am
Matt,
There is also the Titan series on the Bill Fitzmaurice website that can handle a 15:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/T48.html

http://billfitzmaurice.com/images/cabs/T48-01.jpg

There seem to be users that have built these, and like them. I can't vouch for their capabilites. Supposedly, they don't go quite as low as the Tubas, but have a bit more umph in their usable passband.. if I read the postings correctly.
Anyway, as far as your specific 15".. best to contact Bill and see if it will work.
(Personal rant here.. not directed at you personally, Matt.. BUT!)..
My advice to anyone: DON'T buy the drivers first! Do the design first in simulations and on paper.. THEN if it works out.. get the drivers. Too many folks posting here got a "deal" on a driver.. intending to do something with it for which is wasn't designed to do.
As far as whether the designs can keep up with the Yorkies.. no idea..
Regards,
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on March 26, 2007, 09:30:14 am
Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 08:07


(Personal rant here.. not directed at you personally, Matt.. BUT!)..
My advice to anyone: DON'T buy the drivers first! Do the design first in simulations and on paper.. THEN if it works out.. get the drivers. Too many folks posting here got a "deal" on a driver.. intending to do something with it for which is wasn't designed to do.
As far as whether the designs can keep up with the Yorkies.. no idea..
Regards,


These drivers started out in a Pair of SP4s... I lost a crossover network and a horn... so I turned them into front loaded subs...

I am leaning towards getting the UCS1s... but I would like to open up my options.
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on March 26, 2007, 09:48:11 am
Matt,
In spite of my rant, IMO, there is certainly nothing wrong with playing around with some 15's to see what you can do with them. I'm probably the first in line when it comes to doing that.
I'm simply saying that using the 15's in a DIY horn isn't a good way to "open up my options". There are too many guys that plan around using mismatched drivers, cabinets, and other sundry gear to make gigs happen. Sometimes when I have rolled the dice over the last 30 years, I've had good luck, but there are other times where I've wasted time, effort, and costs that could've been better applied to other equipment. Instead of wasting time on a DIY, I could've been earning the funds doing tech work, repairs, or cabinetry for a client.
I'm sure you know this already, but.. your best bet: figure out what you need to do. Get a list of models and makes together that meet the criteria. Price them out. Overcome the sticker shock. Find a way to finance, earn the funds, credit, whatever. Buy once, cry once. Enjoy the gear.. instead of worry about it..
Regards,
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Jeff Babcock on March 26, 2007, 07:53:15 pm
Matt,
The peavey driver won't be very great in a Titan48 or in a Tuba.  You should use the recommended driver from the plans (it's actually cheaper and a lot lighter than the black widows are anyway).  I'd find another use for those drivers.  Every box has drivers that work well or don't work well - and typically the designer of the box is very careful in choosing drivers, so it's best to stick with them in most cases.

I have built the Titan48 and it's a very good sub, particularly if you can set steep HPF's up.  High pass them 24db slope at 40Hz and they'll get pretty loud with ease.   A pair of them might be enough to go under your U15's depending on your requirements.  I'd rather have 4 for bass heavy gigs. They can be built cheaply but it's time consuming.  Yorkville UCS1's are pretty inexpensive and will come pretty close to a Titan48 in output with slightly smaller size (although they draw a bit more power).  Same thing, I'd want at least 4 of them to really get things moving down low.

I guess it comes down to how handy you are... if you are comfortable with cabinet building, fine, you can save a few bucks at the cost of a lot of your free time.  If you're not, I would just buy the UCS1's, or preferably the UCS1p as it is not only powered but the 15" driver has a 4" voice coil and higher power handling as opposed to a 3" in the passive version's driver.

Cheers
Jeff
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Les Webb on March 26, 2007, 11:25:36 pm
What are the specs on the drivers?  Gimme some more info and I can tell you what BF designs they would work in.  However, it would be best to go to Bill's forum and ask.

Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on March 27, 2007, 08:34:40 am
Jeff,
Thanks for reiterating to Matt about the Peavey 15"'s possible incompatibility with the Titan.
I just have seen too many guys get some drivers on the cheap, and then try to use them for an application for which the driver wasn't intended. Even if you are a seasoned cabinet designer and builder, it's a crapshoot sometimes as to whether a design will work exactly as you say it will - when built. My latest sub was 95% of what I expected on the first try.. now comes the real job of fixing that last 5%.. grr.. Mad  
So.. you're happy with the Titan 48? How well does it keep up? Is it solid enough down to 40 Hz?
Yep, I think buying something is probably better for 80% of the folks here.. but that's just my opinion..
Regards,
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Jeff Babcock on March 27, 2007, 05:03:53 pm
Mike,
Yes, I'm fairly happy with the Titan48.  I think if I were to do it again I would have loaded them with Definimax 4015's instead of the Neo based 3015LF.  It does not go as low as the tuba designs, I'm putting a steep crossover at 40Hz on them, actually most of the time I move that up to 45Hz.  I can seem to get a bit more out of them that way.  My main gripe about them is that the design is too large to fit a pair of them in the back of my SUV!  Trailer only..... but they sure are nice and light.

They didn't come out efficiency-wise quite as high as the charts on Bill's site, but they do pack a good punch, especially around 80Hz. I also don't find that they sound that good if you run them much above 110Hz (not that I normally would, I normally cross them at 90 with my tops).  They are very loud up past 110Hz but don't really sound very pretty as they get higher.  

I should also mention that as a single, they are not that useful.  You really need 2 or more before they start to give you that gut-wrenching low end.  And you really need a processor for them, they were much better once I ran them through my VSX26 - with proper crossovers and limiters in place I can push them harder without worrying as much about blowing them up.  So far so good with that 3015LF woofer despite it being pretty small and light with only 450W handling.

Cheers
Jeff
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Mark Coward on April 10, 2007, 05:06:52 pm
While the Peavey Low Rider is a good sub speaker, I wouldn't use the other BW models. They are quite limited by xmax for sub use.
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Alan Sielbeck on April 13, 2007, 05:31:31 pm
Jeff (or any Titan user),

How much power are you running to your Titan, and do you have any idea the SPL you're getting with them clustered in the sub frequency range?  I'm really struggling trying to decide to go with the labs vs. the Titans.  I would love to have that extra bump at 35 cycles, but at 2.5x the weight, and 2x the size I just don't know.  I'm not terribly concerned about build difficult as I know my way around a shop.  I would likely build 4 of either cabinet - If I went labs I'd likely use a PL6, don't know what the Titans would take, but I feel like the PL6 could eat 4 of them for breakfast.  I did notice the 4015 driver has more power handling, but the specs aren't identical to the 3015 - does it differ enough to affect the overall sound materially?  Here are a couple links if anyone wants to chime in.

http://www.usspeaker.com/definimax4015lf-1.htm
http://www.usspeaker.com/Kappa%20Lite-3015lf-1.htm

Thanks for any input
Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Les Webb on April 13, 2007, 09:51:48 pm
Tuba 36 goes lower than the titan 48 and it is definately a noticeable difference.  A Tuba 36 24" wide is not quite as loud as a Titan above 40hz but below 40hz the Tuba shows it's stuff.  Tubas and Titans should not be used in singles, especially the slim versions.  

I have Titan 48's and Tuba 36's right now in shop.  Four Tuba 36 slims in a block are formadable indeed.  Titans are just as formadable, but operate in different ranges.

If your music contains a lot of material below 40hz, I would go with Tubas.  If above 40hz go with Titans.

Les


EDIT

A PL6.0 is the best amp I have used for Tubas. Run in parallel four can be run off one side of the amp.

Title: Re: single 15" horn loaded designs?
Post by: Alan Sielbeck on April 14, 2007, 06:04:52 am
Hmm...  Looking at the 4-cluster comparisons, it didn't look like there was much difference in the low end-  It really looks like they become very similar in that range.  Perhaps the paper measurements are not quite reality.

On that note, I started the build process tonight on the Titan 48s.  Thanks for the input thus far.