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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Giacomo Galassi on February 16, 2011, 07:51:11 am

Title: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Giacomo Galassi on February 16, 2011, 07:51:11 am
Hi everybody. What do you think about Electrovoice Phoenix PX2181?
I have a JBL Vrx rig (4+4 cabinets) and I've tried:
jbl srx 718
jbl srx 728
proel edge 121sp (with B&C 21'' woofer)
acoustic line B118

None of them had the sound I like. I've just bought, after years of tests, four PX2181.
What a SUB! Even at low volume..
I drive them with a pair of QSC PL380 (instead of Itech 8000 which were used with SRX).
Anyone with experience with these subs?
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 16, 2011, 10:10:16 am
At the 2007 NYC sub shootout, we did TEF sweeps of ~16 subs and decided which models we'd audition the next day.  Neither the Phoenix nor the L'Acoustics 218 made the cut.

What, exactly, is the sound you're looking for that nothing else has/had?

The Phoenix 2181 hasn't seen much discussion around here so you might have to wait a bit before someone has comments.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Art Welter on February 16, 2011, 11:55:25 am
Hi everybody. What do you think about Electrovoice Phoenix PX2181?
I have a JBL Vrx rig (4+4 cabinets) and I've tried:
jbl srx 718
jbl srx 728
proel edge 121sp (with B&C 21'' woofer)
acoustic line B118

None of them had the sound I like. I've just bought, after years of tests, four PX2181.
What a SUB! Even at low volume..
I drive them with a pair of QSC PL380 (instead of Itech 8000 which were used with SRX).
Anyone with experience with these subs?
The PX2181 has a lot of upper sensitivity, and with the presets it will play fairly low (at low level), but will run out of output in the bottom at less SPL level than the other subs you mention.

It is already 3 dB down at 50 Hz, and drops at 24 dB per octave from there.

That type of response works OK for some program material, I used cabinets in the 1980’s with similar response.
Edit: Looking at the response, again, I never used any cabinets for bass that rolled off that steeply, and high, other than Yamaha 4115H, but that was in the 1970's, for side fill.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Steven Norman on February 20, 2011, 05:48:17 pm
Hi,

The PX2181 subs do pack a lot of punch for 18" subs, but as in previous posts and the frequency response shows they do not play very low. The EV preset has a +5db boost at 45Hz Q2.0.

One massive flaw with these subs is that they have a 2.5" voice coil. I was rather annoyed with EV when I had to replace a driver! They are certainly not a sub that can be abused with some monster amplifier!

On a more positive note, they do fire a long distance when coupled together and do sound rather musical.


Steve
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Giacomo Galassi on February 21, 2011, 01:12:36 pm
You're right, EV settings have a boost at 45 hz and a cut at 100 hz (i think to shift the phase).

And yes, they don't play very low, but for "hi-fi" applications (eg. jazz, soft rock, lounge music) i still have JBL srx718 that sounds great at lower volumes.

But all that I want from them, was a big punch at high volumes and at far distances (up to 40 meters)..


Hi,

The PX2181 subs do pack a lot of punch for 18" subs, but as in previous posts and the frequency response shows they do not play very low. The EV preset has a +5db boost at 45Hz Q2.0.

One massive flaw with these subs is that they have a 2.5" voice coil. I was rather annoyed with EV when I had to replace a driver! They are certainly not a sub that can be abused with some monster amplifier!

On a more positive note, they do fire a long distance when coupled together and do sound rather musical.


Steve
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Steven Norman on February 21, 2011, 02:49:08 pm
I have PL380's powering my subs aswell.

Are you using the 32db gain setting or the 1.2 volt setting?

Also how hard are you driving the amp?

I am very wary of cooking the voice coils with them only being 2.5"!


Steve
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 21, 2011, 05:03:00 pm

Are you using the 32db gain setting or the 1.2 volt setting?

Regardless of the sensitivity difference, the maximum output voltage swing (and hence, power) remains the same.  Voice coils roasting is a matter of long term, applied power and has nothing to do with amplifier input sensitivity.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Rory Buszka on February 24, 2011, 08:49:38 am
Voice coil diameter isn't really a meaningful spec if the motor structure is competently designed. A 4" voice coil that is 12mm long has less dissipating area than a 2.5" voice coil that is 24mm long. Stay within the power specs and all else being equal, the smaller voice coil will undergo less Le(x) distortion.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Brian Wynn on February 24, 2011, 10:35:43 pm
I currently own 8 PX2181 subs.  My thoughts;  They throw far and stay loud doing it.  As far as going low I recall a gig I did this past summer it was a street fest downtown Chicago and we had a band that played 80's pop tunes and they had a sampler with 808 sounds on it.  And man I tell you what I didn't know my subs would go that low.  We had 3 stacked up per side about 40 feet apart and FOH was 75 feet out right of center.  And when they hit those 808 sounds the crowd would scream and the empty pop cans on the FOH rack would shoot off the rack.  I was amazed at the output.  They really shine when they are stood up vertically and crammed together in the middle 4 or 6 deep.  Spec sheets don't always tell the facts.  Demo what your looking at in a really world environment.  As far the 2.5" coil goes I believe as long as the drive can cool it self there is not danger.

BW
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Greg Harwood on February 25, 2011, 08:23:59 am
I've used the PX2181 for live music gigs for the past couple of years.  I think they are great subs if you're looking for sound quality and output.  They aren't going to go super low, but they sound great and get loud with minimal power (compared to some subs).

I have used these subs on and off for a while and haven't had the pleasure of hearing anything better in my area of the country.  They are a great product.

Regards.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Ian Appleby on March 06, 2011, 04:04:52 pm
I've used the PX2181 for live music gigs for the past couple of years.  I think they are great subs if you're looking for sound quality and output.  They aren't going to go super low, but they sound great and get loud with minimal power (compared to some subs).

I have used these subs on and off for a while and haven't had the pleasure of hearing anything better in my area of the country.  They are a great product.

Regards.

I would have to agree they sound great with little power.  But you must run at least two stacked on top of each other. That's when they really start to shine.

Ian
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Sheldon Harris on March 08, 2011, 03:53:39 am
Regardless of the sensitivity difference, the maximum output voltage swing (and hence, power) remains the same.  Voice coils roasting is a matter of long term, applied power and has nothing to do with amplifier input sensitivity.
+1
however, some operators do tend to overdrive amplifiers when they are used at their most sensitive settings.(read, some Djs with everything in the red  ;D)
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Giacomo Galassi on March 12, 2011, 04:36:37 am
+1
however, some operators do tend to overdrive amplifiers when they are used at their most sensitive settings.(read, some Djs with everything in the red  ;D)

Yesterday I had a problem with my PX.
One of the woofers sounded ugly. I've open the cabinet and... surprise!
The glue on one woofer cracked..

By the way, Italian reseller of EV has just send me another woofer on warranty.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Luke Landis on March 29, 2011, 06:46:57 am
I've heard Paul Lea's PX stuff. The Subs(at that time) were slightly underpowered, but with 2 per side, they hit very hard, and @ 50-60 feet back, they still pounded my chest hard. Quite impressive long range.
Title: Re: Electrovoice Phoenix
Post by: Paul Lea on April 05, 2011, 03:35:48 pm
I have 8 of them powered with four of the lowly Crown XLS5000's, one sub per side of an amp.  We have used them for over 400 shows over the past 3 year of owning them and NEVER had a failure. 

As far as the sound, very musical with decent low end.  However, we did do an outdoor street party here in Fort wayne with Coolio with over 1500+ people cramming the street and they blurred vision at 30-40' back for 2 hours straight.  Once again no failures. Plenty of "throw" to cover nearly 200'.

There have been times I have wanted to get into the mid 30hz/low 40hz but for the little amount of power these take to light them up and the volume they produce, it is tough to justify. I really like them and plan on getting 4 more.