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Title: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 28, 2011, 05:53:52 am
I am looking for a very small portable sub that goes low for between sets dj'ing in very small venues. Sound quality and low distortion are high priorities but I don't need a lot of SPL, even the SRX718 might be more than I need. I am leaning toward powered but still considering passive, and came across the specs for the EAB SB150zR, a vented 15" direct radiating sub with great frequency response using DSP, and smaller than the SRX718 for transportation convenience.
http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Loudspeakers/SB150z/SB150zR_SPECS_revA.pdf (http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Loudspeakers/SB150z/SB150zR_SPECS_revA.pdf)

Right now my mains are a pair of ZX3s, great for live vocals but they need a sub for dj'ing. I have a PLX1804, PL236 and Xilica DSP I can use for this system. Between sets the dj music is Cuban timba with very melodic bass that goes low down to 40 Hz. Venue usually has 10-30 people dancing and another 20-30 sitting at tables talking. Target dance floor SPLs in the 95-100 dB range within 5 meters of the speakers, lower farther away. My car space is limited by the rest of the sound system and instruments.

Has anyone used the EAW SB150zR? A single SRX718 would be great for future expandability, but is pushing the space limit of my car and I would probably have to buy a new amp. Other possibilities that go low enough are QSC KW118 and JBL PRX618S-XLF, but they are also bigger and heavier than the EAW and I don't need the extra SPL. The JBL VRX915 looks small and light but is double the price of the EAW, with axial sensitivity 3 dB less than the EAW, although it can go almost as low without DSP. Can anyone compare the sound quality of the EAW SB150zR with that of the SRX718 or other smaller subs?
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Pat Latimer on September 28, 2011, 08:34:16 am
George, have a look at the Danley TH-Mini that Craig road tested. It may work for your needs.

Hope this helps.

Pat

Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Mark Long on September 28, 2011, 12:35:52 pm
Has anyone used the EAW SB150zR? A single SRX718 would be great for future expandability, but is pushing the space limit of my car and I would probably have to buy a new amp. Other possibilities that go low enough are QSC KW118 and JBL PRX618S-XLF, but they are also bigger and heavier than the EAW and I don't need the extra SPL. The JBL VRX915 looks small and light but is double the price of the EAW, with axial sensitivity 3 dB less than the EAW, although it can go almost as low without DSP. Can anyone compare the sound quality of the EAW SB150zR with that of the SRX718 or other smaller subs?

I found some used SB150s for a classic rock(60s & 70s) band that needed a better sub setup under their EV ZX5s.  I ran sound for them for about two years with that setup and got a lot of compliments on the sound. In most clubs, I was running around 105db at the board position(50ft back). It also sounded very good at small outdoor events(100-200 people). I used the suggested EAW settings in the Driverack for the crossover region.  You can see some discussion of the setup over on the DBX forum here.
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1918 (http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1918)
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Chris Davis on September 28, 2011, 01:50:21 pm
+1 on the SB150 as a recommended sub.  Also look into the updated SB150z, which sounds deeper to my ears.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 28, 2011, 05:15:17 pm
Thanks guys. I am considing the Danley TH-mini as well, but it looks like the EAW is down 3-4 dB at 40 Hz (with DSP) while the TH-mini is down 9 dB at 40 Hz (with no DSP). The EAW, which costs a bit more than half what the TH-mini costs, goes lower at the price of less SPL, larger size and need for a DSP boost at 40 Hz. Can I use a DSP boost on the TH-mini at 40 Hz and give a comparable frequency response to that of the EAW? Will that affect the sound quality?

Mark, the DBX thread is very helpful, it has DSP settings for the SB150z. It sounds from your description that a single SB150z would be more than adequate for the SPL needs I described. Are the EAW suggested DSP settings for the SB150z much different from the Driverack suggested settings?
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Mike Pyle on September 28, 2011, 06:44:28 pm
Danley CS30. You can get it passive or powered.

http://danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.asp?MODEL=CS 30

You'll have to copy & paste the link. PSW doesn't like the space between CS and 30.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Mark Long on September 28, 2011, 07:41:52 pm
Mark, the DBX thread is very helpful, it has DSP settings for the SB150z. It sounds from your description that a single SB150z would be more than adequate for the SPL needs I described. Are the EAW suggested DSP settings for the SB150z much different from the Driverack suggested settings?

The SB150(or the EV ZX series) isn't in the Driverack speaker tunings and per the guys on the DBX forum, the cheap measurement mic I used isn't flat enough to use under 100hz, so I stayed with the EAW settings in the chart and set the sub level by ear. The indoor auto EQ method described on the DBX forum worked very well for EQing the ZX5s. After that, I only had to do minor EQ on the mains from gig to gig. 
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 29, 2011, 12:35:39 am
Thanks. Mike, but the CS30 doesn't go up very high and the ZX3s don't go down very low. The CS30 rolls off on the top end and is down 5 dB by 75 Hz, 8 dB by 100 Hz and 10 dB by 130 Hz or so. The ZX3s are excellent for vocals but for dj'ing with a sub I think they would need a pretty high crossover. I am concerned that crossing over at 75 or 80 Hz would leave a very audible hole between 90 and 120 Hz. Is that true? Have you used the CS30 with ZX3s? How would they sound together without DSP or EQ, with just a simple analog crossover? Do you have any suggestions for a tiny powered sub to use with the ZX3s for the application I described?

Thanks, Mark. That method is similar to what I would be doing using the Xilica DSP and ear.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Pat Latimer on September 29, 2011, 11:33:39 am
George, have you looked into these yet:

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler/

Have a look. It may work well for your needs.

Pat

Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: cliff truesdell on September 29, 2011, 12:28:45 pm
I dont know how the spec's and performance measures up but the RCF 902as sub is powered and tiny in size.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Mike Pyle on September 29, 2011, 12:56:33 pm
I have NOT used the ZX3 and CS30 together, but according to spec the ZX3 is pretty flat to 70 Hz. I think they would be an excellent match. I've only heard the CS30 in Danley's demo room, but I was really impressed with it, as were many others there.

The ART902AS mentioned performs very well given it's size, but doesn't go anywhere near as deep as the CS30.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 29, 2011, 03:07:14 pm
Thanks everyone. Pat, yes I have considered the Growler, but JTR does not publish frequency response data and I don't know how to interpret +/- 3 dB at 41 Hz. It could mean down 3 dB at 41 Hz or down 6 dB at 41 Hz, or something in between, a graph would give more information. I have not heard the Growler and don't know where I could in northern NJ or NYC. At any rate, it is a bit bigger than the others I am considering. I would probably go with an SRX718S if I were to go that large, but I don't think either would fit in my car with all my other gear and instruments.

Cliff, the ART 902-AS is already down 10-14 dB at 40 Hz, although it is temptingly small and light. The ART 905-AS is a little better matched to my needs, but still seems to be down about 7 dB at 40 Hz, although the RCF FR graph conveniently skips the 40 Hz vertical line. Also the price is way above that of others that go lower.

Mike, on paper the ZX3 is only down about 2 dB from 75-90 Hz (from the mean SPL defined by the rest of the frequency response range), and is down almost 4 dB by 60 Hz. In my experience it is more than that and I sometimes need a PEQ boost of 3-4 dB at 100 Hz and crossover at 120 Hz to get a balanced bass sound when I use the ZX3s in my studio with a small sealed subwoofer that is pretty flat. The ZX3 has strong and clear midrange and works great for vocals, but is a bit weak in the lower midbass for dj'ing. I actually may want a sub with a 120 Hz crossover for that reason, to avoid needing to bring DSP.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: cliff truesdell on September 30, 2011, 12:53:45 am
There are some other small subs out on the market, how they perform is beyond my knowledge.

Carvin TRX118: http://www.carvinguitars.com/trxn/

Spec's look good, lightweight. Ive seen the box in the local store, the logo is removable so all your left with is a nice coated box with the "TRX" in the wood. The box construction is top notch from a visual perspective. Good price. No idea how it sounds. A few friends of mine love there Carvin subs (carpet model) and use them for small local festivals.

http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/subs/FL-1-18.html

This sub always gets me curious, very light, good specs. A few chaps on the forums like there Ramsdale products. I myself have never tried them.

Anyway, just a thought
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 30, 2011, 03:22:41 am
I am not familiar with Carvin products, but wow, that Carvin TRX118N looks great for size, shape, weight, price, made in USA, power handling and a max SPL higher than I need, but it has an unbelievably good frequency response. Literally unbelievable. There is a big discrepancy between the specs verbal description of -3dB at 35 Hz and the frequency response  graph which shows the -3dB point around 25 Hz. The specs say -10dB at 29 Hz and the graph shows a -10dB point at 21 Hz. The text mentions an internal crossover but the specs say no internal crossover. I am not sure what to think of the data they are providing. I may call Carvin to find out what is going on. I hope their production and service quality control is better than their marketing quality control. A PSW forum search on Carvin was not very encouraging with regard to other Carvin products. Does anyone else have any first hand experience with the Carvin TRX118N?
The Ramsdell Flylite 18 looks nice, it is lighter but not much smaller than the SRX718. I will have to go measure my car.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Brad Weber on September 30, 2011, 07:16:45 am
Thanks guys. I am considing the Danley TH-mini as well, but it looks like the EAW is down 3-4 dB at 40 Hz (with DSP) while the TH-mini is down 9 dB at 40 Hz (with no DSP). The EAW, which costs a bit more than half what the TH-mini costs, goes lower at the price of less SPL, larger size and need for a DSP boost at 40 Hz. Can I use a DSP boost on the TH-mini at 40 Hz and give a comparable frequency response to that of the EAW?
George, I would not get hung up on response charts that include processing unless that processing is integral to or provided with the speaker.  The response shown for both boxes unprocessed is rather similar and if you look at the SB150z unprocessed response it is also 8-9dB down at 40Hz relative to the 100Hz response with the processing shown to be applied peaking at about +8dB at 40Hz.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on September 30, 2011, 08:29:34 am
Brad, you are right, unprocessed the EAW frequency response is very similar to that of the TH-Mini, maybe an additional 1 dB down at 50 Hz. Because of the difference in the frequency axes on the two graphs, I had not seen how similar they really are, thanks for pointing that out.
So comparing them, the EAW is a little larger but 4 lb lighter, 1 dB less sensitive at 1 w/1m, and with slightly less power handling. I don't know how well the TH-Mini would do with a DSP bump at 40 to extend its FR to make it flat down to 40, but the EAW is designed to do that. The SRX718S goes down to 40 without DSP but is 10 inches deeper and probably won't fit in my car with everything else.
The EAW costs about half what the TH-Mini costs. So for a passive sub, that looks like the best move. The Ramsdell, Carvin, Growler, and others don't have published frequency response graphs and I don't know where I could audition them in the NJ/NYC area. So it looks like my decision is down to whether I want to go to a powered sub at this point, and I haven't yet found a powered 15" sub that goes low enough without external DSP.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Rory Buszka on September 30, 2011, 11:21:46 pm
Brad, you are right, unprocessed the EAW frequency response is very similar to that of the TH-Mini, maybe an additional 1 dB down at 50 Hz. Because of the difference in the frequency axes on the two graphs, I had not seen how similar they really are, thanks for pointing that out.
So comparing them, the EAW is a little larger but 4 lb lighter, 1 dB less sensitive at 1 w/1m, and with slightly less power handling. I don't know how well the TH-Mini would do with a DSP bump at 40 to extend its FR to make it flat down to 40, but the EAW is designed to do that. The SRX718S goes down to 40 without DSP but is 10 inches deeper and probably won't fit in my car with everything else.
The EAW costs about half what the TH-Mini costs. So for a passive sub, that looks like the best move. The Ramsdell, Carvin, Growler, and others don't have published frequency response graphs and I don't know where I could audition them in the NJ/NYC area. So it looks like my decision is down to whether I want to go to a powered sub at this point, and I haven't yet found a powered 15" sub that goes low enough without external DSP.

Understanding a bit about how both subs work can shed a little light on how either sub will behave if EQ'ed at about 40 Hz. The EAW is a vented box, which means that below its tuning frequency, if EQ'ed, it will go into driver overexcursion calisthenics and distortion (the 'wubba-wubbas'). However, a reflex box has a 'double-hump' impedance plot with a dip between the two humps, and the dip occurs at the enclosure's tuning frequency because the port is effectively putting the brakes on the driver as it absorbs the acoustic load, so the back EMF generated by the driver at that frequency is reduced and thus the impedance plot shows a lower impedance. In the case of the SB150z, that's occurring right at 40 Hz, so an EQ boost right around 40 Hz shouldn't increase driver excursion very much at all. Instead, the excursion of the air in the port will increase, because it's absorbing the acoustic load of that increased output.

(The reason why these small subwoofer designs tend to have output that rolls off at the low end is because the designer is using an enclosure that's smaller than the driver is most 'comfortable' with driving, so the pressure generated in the small enclosure volume is swamping the motor's available force, but a box large enough to optimally load most pro audio 15's or 18's would be much larger, and definitely larger than you can move around, so the designer chose the tradeoff of sacrificing a little output and requiring tailored processing to bring the sub into a 'flat' response. Neodymium magnetics help in building a 'stronger' driver, but they are expensive and the global supply of Nd is currently subject to some nasty market pressures.)

The Danley TH-Mini's impedance curve is a little tougher to decipher because of its tapped-horn design. However, the same electrical principles apply: the higher the impedance, the larger the cone excursion. The TH-Mini's impedance minimum occurs right around 50 Hz, and very slowly begins to rise around 40 Hz, but at 30 Hz, it's at its maximum for the design. This suggests that the TH-Mini would need a very steep HPF right at 35-40 Hz if any additional EQ were to be used at 40 Hz, to minimize the electrical drive from the amps at 30 Hz and prevent driver distortion or self-destruction at very high levels.

From this analysis, it looks like the EAW SB150zR is your preferred solution because applying the necessary EQ to make the sub flat to 40 Hz will have less of a negative impact on the sub's sound quality. Just be sure to have plenty of amplifier power on tap.

I'm not sure if there is a portable version of the Danley TH-112, but it would be better suited to efficient reproduction of the lower frequencies you're looking for.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 01, 2011, 12:24:32 am
Thanks Rory for your explanation of why I might not want to put a DSP bump at 40 Hz on the tapped horn TH-Mini. Although I could put a very low Q narrow boost a bit higher say at 44 Hz with a BW HPF slightly below 40 Hz, that might get a bit finicky and I don't know what the combination of DSP filters would do to the phase and group delay. So I agree with your logic and put the EAW at the top of my passive list. Certainly the Danley TH-112 would sound nice, but it is much heavier and bigger (and louder) than I want or need. I am not planning to push the SPL at all because I mainly play small venues and the sub is really only for between sets dj'ing.

However after all this discussion, a complication is that two of my nephews are party DJs and will no doubt want to borrow the sub at some point. One of them asked me tonight to borrow a speaker. I don't trust them to stick to my advice to avoid red lights or properly limit the SPL, and I think they are more likely to blow up a 15" passive sub with the amp I have than to blow up an 18" active sub that is more than adequate for my tops. I also measured my car and find I can fit the PRX618S-XLF (if I limit my passengers!) So my final decision, after months of consideration, was to go with the PRX, which has the lowest bass extension of the active subs I have been looking at, and has plenty of headroom for the small venues we will be using it in. I found a deal online and pulled the trigger tonight on a PRX618S-XLF (under $1k new shipped).

In this process, I actually got to really like everything I have seen about the EAW SB150zR. If the PRX sub is too big and does not sound good doing between-gig double duty in my basement rehearsal studio, I may still get the EAW for that. I still have not heard one and will be looking around for one to hear over the next few months. Thank you to everyone who helped me think this though.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Pat Latimer on October 01, 2011, 12:44:52 am
Thanks Rory for your explanation of why I might not want to put a DSP bump at 40 Hz on the tapped horn TH-Mini. Although I could put a very low Q narrow boost a bit higher say at 44 Hz with a BW HPF slightly below 40 Hz, that might get a bit finicky and I don't know what the combination of DSP filters would do to the phase and group delay. So I agree with your logic and put the EAW at the top of my passive list. Certainly the Danley TH-112 would sound nice, but it is much heavier and bigger (and louder) than I want or need. I am not planning to push the SPL at all because I mainly play small venues and the sub is really only for between sets dj'ing.

However after all this discussion, a complication is that two of my nephews are party DJs and will no doubt want to borrow the sub at some point. One of them asked me tonight to borrow a speaker. I don't trust them to stick to my advice to avoid red lights or properly limit the SPL, and I think they are more likely to blow up a 15" passive sub with the amp I have than to blow up an 18" active sub that is more than adequate for my tops. I also measured my car and find I can fit the PRX618S-XLF (if I limit my passengers!) So my final decision, after months of consideration, was to go with the PRX, which has the lowest bass extension of the active subs I have been looking at, and has plenty of headroom for the small venues we will be using it in. I found a deal online and pulled the trigger tonight on a PRX618S-XLF (under $1k new shipped).

In this process, I actually got to really like everything I have seen about the EAW SB150zR. If the PRX sub is too big and does not sound good doing between-gig double duty in my basement rehearsal studio, I may still get the EAW for that. I still have not heard one and will be looking around for one to hear over the next few months. Thank you to everyone who helped me think this though.

George, have you actually had a chance to listen to the Danley's? Depending on what your uses are, I think you should listen to everything before buying. Whoops, I think I'm too late. The XLF, is a respected piece but you should  listen to all comers before dropping the coin. IMHO, take your time before pulling the trigger.

My $0.02.

Pat

p.s.- good luck George, I hope it works our for you.


Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: cliff truesdell on October 01, 2011, 02:53:21 am
Interesting choice. Ive used the VRX918SP subs often and know that they perform very nice. While I havent used the XLF I guess they should be pretty close.
Report back after you have used it and let us know your thoughts.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 01, 2011, 05:27:16 am
I have been considering this decision for about a year. I have not found a place to demo the EAW SB150zR and would like to avoid carrying DSP to gigs if possible. I am still looking for a place to demo it, and am still considering it for my rehearsal studio. I tried several times to find a TH-Mini I could hear in my local NJ/NYC area, but couldn't. Since I don't know anyone who has a TH-Mini in my area, and have never seen or heard one, if I ever need to rent a second sub for a larger venue, finding a PRX618-XLF would probably be much easier than renting a TH-Mini or EAW. The VRX918SP is much higher priced than the PRX618S-XLF and the specs seem too similar to justify the difference in price for my needs. None of the Yorkville, EV, Yamaha or QSC subs I have heard are both small enough and go low enough. So it came down to a practical decision between the SRX718S and the PRX618S-XLF. The PRX has a built in amp and crossover (if 90 Hz works with the ZX3s), is 3 inches narrower, and should sound fairly similar to the SRX718S or VRX918SP. The SRX718S, which I have rented and liked a lot, would have required me to either bring a DSP to gigs or buy a new crossover, and the shape is too wide for my basement stairs. The only downside of the PRX is the overheating problem people have mentioned online, which I hope turns out not to be an issue for me. I will let you know how it works out.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: cliff truesdell on October 01, 2011, 01:11:09 pm
My reasons for really liking the VRX box is mainly for the size. Its very easy for me to move around. Loading is a breeze in a mini type van, tilt and slide or roll end over end. Sitting on its grill it takes very little valuable pack space.

I would like to try the XLF someday. Not only am I interested in its performance but how portable the box is. I like its 90hz highpass over the 80hz highpass on the VRX. You will most likely be getting some louder tops too down the road, any thoughts on the PRX612?

Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 02, 2011, 02:02:41 pm
One step at a time for me. I have been using the ZX3s without a sub, and they work great for vocals. Given the declining economy, I don't know how quickly our group will be moving into bigger venues that don't have their own sound system. For now, I will see how it goes with the sub for between-sets DJing. If the PRX618S-XLF with its built-in 90 Hz crossover works well with the ZX3s (which are a little light in the midbass), it should work well with other 12" tops too. I have not yet made a decision to go all active, and if I do, the PRX612m looks good on paper, but there would be other 12" or 10" top boxes I would consider as well, including the QSC K10, Yamaha DSR112, and several of the RCFs. I haven't started listening to top boxes yet.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 25, 2011, 10:34:10 pm
Update: the great deal on the PRX618S-XLF fell through, it really was too good to be true. Austin Bazaar had advertised the PRX618S-XLF for $999, I ordered it on a Friday night and called them Monday to check on the order because a few things in the ad looked funny. It was actually a PRX618S not XLF that they were selling, with very misleading advertising. On the phone I raised hell about their misleading advertising and within a day, they took off the XLF from the product title. They did not remove the "Extended Low Frequency" from the description, nor the mention of the JBL 2268FF driver that is in the XLF but not the S model, the mention of dual 500 watt amplifiers, or the 133 dB peak SPL, while keeping other items from the S model, such as 600 watt amplifier, 41 Hz -10 dB frequency response, 120 Hz crossover and a few other items. Someone must have written a description taking from both the XLF and the S models, and the resulting text is misleading and self-contradictory. At any rate, I cancelled my order and they did refund my payment to my credit card. Judge for yourself:
http://www.austinbazaar.com/JBL-PRX618S-Subwoofer-System-p/jbl-prx618s.htm

This all gave me the opportunity to try lifting the QSC and JBL and rethink, plus I have done some additional listening to the QSC KW181, PRX618S-XLF, and EV ELX118P. I liked the sound of the QSC the best, although not as well as the SRX718S I have used in the past. All of them, however, are larger, heavier and more awkward than would be convenient in my car, and that would be comfortable for my aging back on my basement stairs. I won't need even the SPL of a single powered 18" sub for most of my gigs. The rest of my system is passive, I have the amp I need (PL236) and tomorrow I plan to purchase the EAW SB150zR that I have been thinking about all this time. I am pretty sure that with my DSP I will be able to get the flat frequency response, low extension, SPL, and sound quality I need for my small gigs. Even without DSP, the FR goes lower than the KW181. The size is much better for my basement stairs and car, and it is lighter and less awkward than the powered subs or the SRX718. I can crossover at 120 or even higher if needed for the ZX3s, while the KW181 has a built in crossover around 100 Hz. Not having heard it is a concern, but I don't know anyone who has one in the NYC/North NJ area, it is $500 less than the JBL or QSC and I am willing to take the (small) chance that I won't like it.

Does anyone have any final advice against the EAW?
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Chris Davis on October 26, 2011, 01:48:19 pm
Does anyone have any final advice against the EAW?

No.  There is really nothing that bothers me about them - although the only other box I am familiar with in your list is the JBL SRX single 18.  The EAW's are just nice, small, heavy-duty subs. 

I think any downsides might be due to one's expectations if they were to compare them to something either larger or more expensive.  After all it is just a 15" sub.  But it is an above-average 15" sub.  This is definitely a box to check out since JBL doesn't have a 15" SRX sub.

Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Greg Harwood on October 26, 2011, 11:02:32 pm
George, I've not heard or used the SB150z, but I have used it's big brother the SB250z and I really liked the sub.  They sound good, get reasonably loud, and go low.  I would imagine the SB150z would have a similar sound, but not have the output of the 250z.  I think you'll like the sound quality SB150z...and you should be able to flatten out it's response with your dsp.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: cliff truesdell on November 14, 2011, 12:09:14 pm
JBL does have a small 15", VRX915s. Keep us posted amigo.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Stu McDoniel on November 16, 2011, 11:25:33 pm
I am looking for a very small portable sub that goes low for between sets dj'ing in very small venues. Sound quality and low distortion are high priorities but I don't need a lot of SPL, even the SRX718 might be more than I need. I am leaning toward powered but still considering passive, and came across the specs for the EAB SB150zR, a vented 15" direct radiating sub with great frequency response using DSP, and smaller than the SRX718 for transportation convenience.
http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Loudspeakers/SB150z/SB150zR_SPECS_revA.pdf (http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Loudspeakers/SB150z/SB150zR_SPECS_revA.pdf)

Right now my mains are a pair of ZX3s, great for live vocals but they need a sub for dj'ing. I have a PLX1804, PL236 and Xilica DSP I can use for this system. Between sets the dj music is Cuban timba with very melodic bass that goes low down to 40 Hz. Venue usually has 10-30 people dancing and another 20-30 sitting at tables talking. Target dance floor SPLs in the 95-100 dB range within 5 meters of the speakers, lower farther away. My car space is limited by the rest of the sound system and instruments.

Has anyone used the EAW SB150zR? A single SRX718 would be great for future expandability, but is pushing the space limit of my car and I would probably have to buy a new amp. Other possibilities that go low enough are QSC KW118 and JBL PRX618S-XLF, but they are also bigger and heavier than the EAW and I don't need the extra SPL. The JBL VRX915 looks small and light but is double the price of the EAW, with axial sensitivity 3 dB less than the EAW, although it can go almost as low without DSP. Can anyone compare the sound quality of the EAW SB150zR with that of the SRX718 or other smaller subs?
QSC KSUB  /DUAL 12"  /1000 WATT CLASS D
These are impressive little subs for sure
Price is right
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/qsc-ksub-powered-subwoofer/581519000000000?src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=334451500
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on November 17, 2011, 03:43:28 am
To update, I have a bit of a reprieve, the club we were playing every Saturday night lost its lease and closed down last Saturday, so I have some additional time to make this decision. Greg and Chris, thanks for your comments on the EAW subs.
Cliff, regarding the JBL VRX 15" sub, it is double the cost and has 3 dB lower full space axial sensitivity compared with the EAW. Although it is 15 pounds lighter, JBL recommends a HPF at 45 Hz, so I would be hesitant to put a DSP bump around 40 Hz with HPF at 35 or so, to extend its FR down to 40. It just does not seem to be designed for that.
Stu, the K-Sub I listened to in the store sounded very peaky, with some distortion and very low SPL at lower frequencies. Sound was reasonably good in the 60-90 Hz range. Although the form factor is great, QSC does not publish frequency response curves and the -6dB point is listed as 48 Hz, so it rolls off much higher than I need.
I got a PM from a LAB member telling me that Community just came out with a really tiny dual 8" front loaded reflex passive subwoofer, the VLF208LV, with rated axial sensitivity of 93 dB half space 1w/1m, and 119 dB SPL continuous output, FR pretty flat and only 5 dB down at 40 Hz. Specs here:
http://www.communitypro.com/files/literature/spec%20sheets/VLF208LV_SPEC.pdf
At 48 lb, 10x22x22, it is less than half the size of the EAW and two would be approximately equivalent to one EAW in SPL and FR, with better scalability, packability and carryability. Cost of 2 would be around 30% more than one EAW. I am thinking about getting one for my rehearsal studio, testing it out and considering using 1 or 2 for small venue gigs. If it is just too small for gigs, the EAW SB150zR or PRX618S-XLF are my current short list. The portable version (-BP suffix) is not yet in stock at Community or their dealers, they are saying 3-4 weeks more.
Title: Re: EAW SB150zR Subwoofer or other tiny subwoofer for EV ZX3s
Post by: Ben Lawrence on November 21, 2011, 07:42:29 pm
Keep your eyes out on ebay and the marketplace here. The SB150s come up occasionally. I have a couple of them and am pretty happy with the performance. Perfect little sub for weddings and small venues.