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Church and H.O.W. Forums for HOW Sound and AV - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Church and HOW Forums => Church Sound => Topic started by: Jeffrey Turner on May 29, 2011, 05:39:13 pm

Title: suggestions on equipment and sermon recordings
Post by: Jeffrey Turner on May 29, 2011, 05:39:13 pm
I am new to this forum as a member. I have gained a wealth of info as a guest reader. I would like any suggestions on our church sound system as to making it better. It sounds great, but we would love any ideas to maximize its potential. We have a Midas Venice 240 with the stereo mstrs., aux.1, aux.2, mon.1 and mon.2 input into an Ashly Protea 24.24m. The mstrs. B stereo outputs into a Denon DNC550 cd recorder. The fx1 is temporarily being used for an assistive listening system. The fx2 is unused. Mon.1 and 2 is prefade, aux.1 and 2 is switchable, fx1 and 2 is postfade and the mstrs. B stereo outputs are switchable. The Ashly processor is as follows;
1.main l.------1. L/C/R
2.main r.----- 2. balcony 70v
3.aux.1-------3. pulpit mon.
4.mon.1------4. mon. A
5.mon.2------5. mon. B
6.aux.2-------6.lobby 70v
We have the inputs routed to the outputs just as listed with the exception of 1 and 2. Input 1 is routed to outputs 1 and 2. Input 2 is routed to inputs 1 and 2.  The breakdown of the outputs of the Ashly is as follows;
1.Crown xls802 inputs 1 and 2 paralleled-ch.1 to left and right (cluster) and ch.2 to center (cluster).
2.QSC isa300ti input 1- ch.1 to 4 EV Evid spkrs. wired parallel and 70v in balcony.
3.Crown xls402 input 1 (2 unused)-ch.1 to floorbox on each side of pulpit for 2 floor mon. wired parallel.
4.Crown xls602 input 1-ch.1 (mon.a) paralleled to floorboxes on stage for singers and musicians.
5.Crown xls602 input 2-ch.2 (mon.b) paralleled to floorboxes on stage for singers and musicians.
6.QSC isa300ti input 2-ch.2 to several 70v spkrs. in lobby.
I included this info because I am always looking for suggestions on making it even better. I'm sorry for the long post, especially because I'm just getting to my question. Would it be a good idea to process my recordings with the Ashly? We have the normal problems with recording straight from the mixer. Our preaching is lively with a wide range of volume. If you set levels for talking, it clips when the volume is higher. So, I've spent hours researching and don't know much more. I noticed that the autolevel and comp. functions in Audacity really cleaned up a bad recording I made. So, I remembered that the Ashly has these functions and we have two inputs and outputs available without having to purchase cards. I know that for FOH the output limiter on the Ashly does a great job when volumes are louder. If this is a good idea, what would be a good starting point on the settings? The input side of the Ashly has an Autoleveler with adjustments for target level, action (aggressive 10:1 normal 4:1 and gentle 2:1) and max. gain. This function has the described basic mode or an advanced mode with more settings. The output side has an output limiter with settings for threshold, ratio, attack and release. Should both of these functions be used? I plan to eventually do multi-track but this is the current setup. We basically record every sermon with copies duplicated and printed before the end of the service. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Title: Re: suggestions on equipment and sermon recordings
Post by: Jim Le Gros on May 30, 2011, 07:54:07 pm
Hi Jeffry,

I am going to offer what I think is a simpler answer:
You appear to be proposing to use an Ashly distribution/processor system to help reduce the dynamic range of just one input channel & that your main concern is to help reduce peaks on your recordings of the sermons?

As your Ashly has no easy to access to adjust the parameters of compression/limiting I personally would find this a cumbersome and inflexible method of achieving this. So personally (and I assume that your Church has the funds), I would buy an additional rack-mounted processor and connect it to the insert point on your Venice for the preach input channel; as various speakers voices can be hugely different as other people take the microphone it is vastly helpful to be able to quickly reach for a rack strip to adjust options like threshold, ratio, llimiting or bypass controls as necessary (on the fly). Anything like the Protea that can only be adjusted by a computer software (unless it is permanently available to you whilst in use) will leave you having to live with what ever is preset in to the feed of your recording device. Additionally you will benefit by having the specific preach channel dynamically controlled so that extravagant and excited preaching peaks do not become over-bearingly loud for the congregation who are listening to the main speaker system/s. One good quality is a dual channel dynamic processor by Drawmer a DL241 but there are many other good processors available on the market.

Hope this helps,

Title: Re: suggestions on equipment and sermon recordings
Post by: chuck clark on June 01, 2011, 07:27:49 pm
+1 what Jim said. I've had excellent results w/ a DBX 166 XL. The loudness contour button helps keep bass from prematurely triggering compression.
I suppose you COULD use 2 unused channels of the protea. I've had great results with them keeping monitors from blowing up under hard use. So, I like them, I've just had better results recording thru the DBX 166.
If you need to try the protea until you can get a decent outboard unit. Start w/ the 4:1 ratio. If it still over- loads either reduce your threshold a bit or try the 10:1 ratio. It sound like you have too extreme dynamics going on for 3:1 to do you much good. Good luck. Have fun!
Title: Re: suggestions on equipment and sermon recordings
Post by: Jeffrey Turner on June 06, 2011, 04:52:52 am
Thanks Jim and Chuck.

I appreciate the detailed answers. I really would like to try the Ashly first. Our rack is full without eliminating airspaces between equipment. We designed an identical rack space with a built-in but  removable drawer unit on opposite side of sound booth. Everything was designed for upgrades and additions. I would like to compare the recording through the Ashly to present setup. We have as good as can be expected recordings now, just the age-old low volume issue. I would like to try for more volume with some compression without getting into editing. I am the drummer plus sound guy, so I am a little busy. I may end up at the more professional Drawner or DBX option, but first I would like to try what we have.  Once again thanks for the detailed info.