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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: lukebuckbee on April 28, 2011, 08:29:20 pm

Title: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: lukebuckbee on April 28, 2011, 08:29:20 pm
Hello all.
I'm currently mixing a band where the drummer does back up vocals, as well as some leads. He's a basher, has very loud cymbals, and we're playing mostly smaller rooms. My current method is a beta56, rolling off everything above 10ish K, and lightly compressing. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to reject enough of the cymbals for me to get a balanced mix.
I've searched the forum, as well as google and have found very little on this topic. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Luke
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Phil Hornung on April 28, 2011, 10:10:09 pm
Hello all.
I'm currently mixing a band where the drummer does back up vocals, as well as some leads. He's a basher, has very loud cymbals, and we're playing mostly smaller rooms. My current method is a beta56, rolling off everything above 10ish K, and lightly compressing. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to reject enough of the cymbals for me to get a balanced mix.
I've searched the forum, as well as google and have found very little on this topic. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Luke

I've had decent luck in the past with Sennheiser's e945. It's a super-card. The pattern has rejection at around 120deg from the business end instead of 180. Since cymbals are typically to the left and right of the center of the kit instead of directly in front, this can be helpful. Also, in general, I find sennheisers vocal mics a bit "duller" sounding (not necessarily in a bad way) than the Shure beta series which seem to have some boost in the mid range. This probably also helps.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Dan Sego on April 29, 2011, 02:30:12 am
Used on a lot of tours with hard hitting drummers.

http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/102546.pdf
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: MARK PAVLETICH on April 29, 2011, 03:25:05 am
+1 on the Crown CM311, If he won't wear a headset mic see if you can find the handheld differoid sister to the CM311, the CM310A.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Gordon Brinton on April 29, 2011, 07:58:42 pm
...and lightly compressing...

Compression is likely making the problem worse by bringing out the cymbals more. If you use makeup/output gain after the compression stage, this essentially raises the lower level content within the signal (such as background noise) and brings it more forward so-to-speak.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Jerry Turnbow on April 30, 2011, 02:08:42 pm
Hello all.
I'm currently mixing a band where the drummer does back up vocals, as well as some leads. He's a basher, has very loud cymbals, and we're playing mostly smaller rooms. My current method is a beta56, rolling off everything above 10ish K, and lightly compressing. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to reject enough of the cymbals for me to get a balanced mix.
I've searched the forum, as well as google and have found very little on this topic. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Luke

I've had good success with the Audix OM7 on drummer vocals.  You'll have to make sure they"eat" the mic, though.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Jim McKeveny on April 30, 2011, 02:57:45 pm
You say you are playing "smallish rooms". I have to assume that drum and cymbal content is making its way to front line mics also. Changing over to a differoid may not give you the magical isolation you seek. A singing drummer should think about his kit in context of its sonic signature all down the chain. In the past I have dampened cymbals with gaffers tape, which helps the entire stage, or simply make peace the imperfect nature of the live sound environment.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Cosmo on April 30, 2011, 06:43:11 pm

Another +1 for the Crown 311.  You won't be disappointed.

Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: Drew Curtis on May 01, 2011, 02:03:53 am
try very thin strips of gaff tape on the underside of the cymbals (a very small amount will change things drastically) to help with bleed. as thin as you can tear the strips, maybe 2 or 3 3 inch pieces per cymbal.
Title: Re: Drum vocal techniques
Post by: John Chiara on May 02, 2011, 02:30:44 am
You say you are playing "smallish rooms". I have to assume that drum and cymbal content is making its way to front line mics also. Changing over to a differoid may not give you the magical isolation you seek. A singing drummer should think about his kit in context of its sonic signature all down the chain. In the past I have dampened cymbals with gaffers tape, which helps the entire stage, or simply make peace the imperfect nature of the live sound environment.

I found a better solution than gaff tape...moon gel. Years ago had a drummer I didn't know and I asked if he had any tape I could use on the cymbals....he said all he had was moon gel. It cut the volume of the cymbals in half without changing the feel. Surprised me...much better than tape.