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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => DJ Forum => Topic started by: Mike Henderson on July 24, 2020, 01:33:56 pm

Title: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mike Henderson on July 24, 2020, 01:33:56 pm
Hey guys, is there any full range 18" 2 or 3 way speaker which has the bass of a sub? I have a dual 18" sub and tops which I run a crossover but I am thinking of getting a full range speaker which can give deep powerful bass.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: David Allred on July 24, 2020, 01:59:52 pm
Hey guys, is there any full range 18" 2 or 3 way speaker which has the bass of a sub? I have a dual 18" sub and tops which I run a crossover but I am thinking of getting a full range speaker which can give deep powerful bass.
Separate sub & top cabs give you 2 manageable pieces and the ability to get the top cab up in the air (stacked or on a stand).
Sub included cab would be monstrous to manage and no good (easy) way to get the mid/high up in the air.
2-way... no way.
3-way as a minimum.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on July 24, 2020, 03:08:19 pm
There are but they are just as big if not bigger than your dual 18 subs. There is no free lunch when it comes to sub bass.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Nathan Riddle on July 24, 2020, 03:12:20 pm
Danley J1... 6x18" drivers ;)
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 24, 2020, 03:33:51 pm
Hey guys, is there any full range 18" 2 or 3 way speaker which has the bass of a sub? I have a dual 18" sub and tops which I run a crossover but I am thinking of getting a full range speaker which can give deep powerful bass.

Meyer MTS4. Discontinued, but a great sounding "full range" 4 way speaker. Big and heavy but sounds great with plenty of deep bass.

Mac
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: John L Nobile on July 24, 2020, 03:44:31 pm
Danley SM80F might do the trick. And it "only" weighs 215 pounds.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Don T. Williams on July 24, 2020, 04:44:10 pm
One important question.  What dual 18" sub do you have?  If it is passive, what amp is it powered with?  Not all dual 18s" are created equal!  There may be some smaller cabinets that can equal (or exceed) the output and frequency range of what you have.  I said "may".  What is your system used for?  Gotta know what the starting point is.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on July 24, 2020, 05:39:13 pm
FWIW, one of my earlier PA systems involved main speakers using subwoofer drivers. 15" 2-ways.
Because the 15"s were capable of great excursion and lots of power handling, the >100Hz efficiency suffered. A good 12" midbass unit would keep up just fine in that region.

A 2x18"+12"+1", possibly using a coaxial, might be fun, but I'd rather put the mid-high box above people's heads and get the projection.

Chris
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mike Henderson on July 26, 2020, 08:36:50 am
One important question.  What dual 18" sub do you have?  If it is passive, what amp is it powered with?  Not all dual 18s" are created equal!  There may be some smaller cabinets that can equal (or exceed) the output and frequency range of what you have.  I said "may".  What is your system used for?  Gotta know what the starting point is.

Thanks for all of the info guys. I have my DJ rig setup for myself but I was just thinking of getting a full range set of speakers for the family here which anyone of them can use on their own without having to interfere with mine.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on July 26, 2020, 04:14:17 pm
Thanks for all of the info guys. I have my DJ rig setup for myself but I was just thinking of getting a full range set of speakers for the family here which anyone of them can use on their own without having to interfere with mine.

The Danley SM80F comes fairly close, but even that doesn't play deep 'sub' bass.  d&b GSL sort of does, but only makes sense for large areas and if you have very healthy pockets.

Soundbridge many years ago made a three way box for this exact purpose, but it's a step down from any decent separate box solution. 

Two big issues - you can't get the mids/highs above people's heads for even front to rear coverage, and the physical size and power requirements for bass are much higher than for mids/highs.  While it is possible to build a true full-range speaker - the logistics of putting huge heavy boxes in the air doesn't make sense for small SoS size setups, only for larger installations and shows. 
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Lee Douglas on July 26, 2020, 08:32:24 pm
Out of production, by a long shot, but a pair of old JBL 4699s might do the trick.  Just under 200lbs, IIRC, but very affordable on the used market.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on July 26, 2020, 10:04:29 pm
Out of production, by a long shot, but a pair of old JBL 4699s might do the trick.  Just under 200lbs, IIRC, but very affordable on the used market.


A pair of STX-835's may be what you are after. They are heavy bitches.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mark Wilkinson on July 27, 2020, 04:18:01 pm
Meyer MTS4. Discontinued, but a great sounding "full range" 4 way speaker. Big and heavy but sounds great with plenty of deep bass.

Mac

I have a pair of the updated/discontinued mts4a's that have only seen home use.  Still my reference standard to compare stuff to, after I've tied together various subs and mains.
Must admit, it makes me smile to hear you think they sound great....I don't get to hear all that many rigs to compare to......
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Don T. Williams on July 27, 2020, 04:37:06 pm
EAW made an 18" 3-way back in the mid 1980's.  I don't remember the model number but is was similar the the JBL SR or SRX box.  Vented 18", sealed 12", large format horn.  It was a reasonable side fill, but you had to elevate the box to get the horn at head level or above, and it was BIG.  A two or three man lift.  I never got an answer as to what current gear Mr. Henderson has.  And, if it's just for "family" and easy of use, I would think an active two-way box over an active sub (left stacked and plugged together?) would be easier to use than anything passive unless the amp(s) are racked up and a Speakon or other multi-pin speaker cable is used on both ends.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on July 27, 2020, 07:20:40 pm
The mother of all full range boxes, a little tough to stack by yourself though!
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Caleb Dueck on July 27, 2020, 10:59:54 pm
If this is for home use - the Danley SM100F or SM100B (the F has a stronger mid/high coax) might work.  The -100B is good down to 40Hz. 
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on July 28, 2020, 07:08:09 pm
I was just thinking of getting a full range set of speakers for the family here which anyone of them can use on their own without having to interfere with mine.

So just something for the kids to play with at home? Get on Craigslist and look form a set of "Monkey Coffins".. '80's floor standing home audio speakers. Cerwin Vega made a bunch of different models for the home market with 12" or 15" drivers that could get quite loud and were much more full-range than most PA speakers.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Matthias McCready on July 28, 2020, 07:32:59 pm
So just something for the kids to play with at home? Get on Craigslist and look form a set of "Monkey Coffins".. '80's floor standing home audio speakers. Cerwin Vega made a bunch of different models for the home market with 12" or 15" drivers that could get quite loud and were much more full-range than most PA speakers.

I have pair of Cerwin Vega's RE-30's sitting in my basement. Haven't used them in years. They are loud enough to be "gig-worthy" and have a lot of bass if that is what you are after. They have been used as subs, and a for jamming with a bass synth. While they certainly don't win any awards in the fidelity department they do sound better than most cheap PA speakers in my opinion. As bonus there is a fuse between the amp and drivers, should you do something stupid.

They can usually be found for $50-400 a pair on craigslist. If memory serves they are not to picky on the amp (they are efficient) so most any home amp should do the trick.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Rob Spence on July 28, 2020, 11:56:51 pm
I have pair of Cerwin Vega's RE-30's sitting in my basement. Haven't used them in years. They are loud enough to be "gig-worthy" and have a lot of bass if that is what you are after. They have been used as subs, and a for jamming with a bass synth. While they certainly don't win any awards in the fidelity department they do sound better than most cheap PA speakers in my opinion. As bonus there is a fuse between the amp and drivers, should you do something stupid.

They can usually be found for $50-400 a pair on craigslist. If memory serves they are not to picky on the amp (they are efficient) so most any home amp should do the trick.

Wow, brings back memories. Way way way back, long ago, I had a pair of V20s over V30s. Drive was DC300s. I am better now, thank you.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Mike Henderson on July 29, 2020, 09:14:03 am
I never got an answer as to what current gear Mr. Henderson has.  And, if it's just for "family" and easy of use, I would think an active two-way box over an active sub (left stacked and plugged together?) would be easier to use than anything passive unless the amp(s) are racked up and a Speakon or other multi-pin speaker cable is used on both ends.

Oh sorry Don. I use 2 Crown 3600's with DBX 2231 eq, Ashly XR1001 Crossover, Allen and heath Xone 23 DJ Mixer. Sonic R218 Subs and EV Eliminator i Tops.

Yes, just a separate simple 2-3 way speaker system with heavy bass for family use is what I am thinking with it's own amp/receiver and eq.

Thanks for all of those suggestions guys.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: John L Nobile on July 29, 2020, 10:33:53 am
Wow, brings back memories. Way way way back, long ago, I had a pair of V20s over V30s. Drive was DC300s. I am better now, thank you.

I used to use CV V35's in the 70's. Loved them back then. Not sure I would today.

Nah, I wouldn't like them today. Honky and no low bass. But that's what speakers sounded like back then.
Title: Re: Any full range speakers with the bass power of a sub?
Post by: Don T. Williams on July 29, 2020, 05:01:15 pm
Oh sorry Don. I use 2 Crown 3600's with DBX 2231 eq, Ashly XR1001 Crossover, Allen and heath Xone 23 DJ Mixer. Sonic R218 Subs and EV Eliminator i Tops.

Yes, just a separate simple 2-3 way speaker system with heavy bass for family use is what I am thinking with it's own amp/receiver and eq.

Thanks for all of those suggestions guys.

Mike I think you might really be surprised by some of the self-powered (active) 2-way speakers available now.  Some if these have "bass or deep" modes that do a pretty good job of making you think there are subs.  We use to have a 10" active set in its "deep mode" that we would demo sitting on top of the companion sub.  After a short demo, we would ask the customer if they would like to hear it with the sub connected.  Most were very surprised that the sub had not been on for the initial demo.  Of course the speakers DID sound better with sub on!