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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Tracy Garner on July 13, 2020, 04:42:29 pm

Title: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Tracy Garner on July 13, 2020, 04:42:29 pm
I just got 6 ETC S419 at an unbeatable price. I'm not sure whether to put 375, 575, or 750 watt bulbs in them. They may be overkill for my podcast studio as the room is 12x16 with 10 foot ceiling. I have dimmers available.

Thoughts on which bulb I might purchase? Sorry for the novice question.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Patrick Tracy on July 13, 2020, 04:54:13 pm
I just got 6 ETC S419 at an unbeatable price. I'm not sure whether to put 375, 575, or 750 watt bulbs in them. They may be overkill for my podcast studio as the room is 12x16 with 10 foot ceiling. I have dimmers available.

Thoughts on which bulb I might purchase? Sorry for the novice question.

Nothing wrong with being a novice. I'm sure you'll get good advice here. By the way, they're called lamps. As a sound guy who sometimes helps on hang and focus jobs, I've been corrected several times on that.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Jeff Lelko on July 13, 2020, 06:35:33 pm
Hi Tracy, congrats on your purchase!  While there are a few technical ways that one could figure this out, I base my decision off two factors - your existing dimmers, and heat.  What are the existing dimmers that you have?  Most cheap dimmers won't be able to really run a 575w (or certainly a 750w) load with any longevity.  The other factor is that given how small your room is the halogen light source will really heat the room up, especially if you're going to run all 6 fixtures at the same time.  Based on that alone I'd side with the smallest lamp option you can find. 

Other considerations are often things like needing very dark gels or having to cover a very wide area, but in your case I can't see how the 375W lamp won't be plenty.  Good luck and hope this helps!
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: John Fruits on July 13, 2020, 06:47:53 pm
I think the whole "It's not a bulb, it's a lamp, dagnabbit!" is usually part of the first day's lesson in intro to stage lighting. LOL Among pros who actually use them they are also sometimes called globes, bottles and bubbles. As far as what wattage, one thing to consider is your lamp should be run at the top end of the brightness range.  Tungsten-halogen or quartz lamps rely on the generated heat to re-deposit the tungsten on the filament rather than the inside of the envelope (aka bulb........) resulting in longer usable life.  So I would vote for 375 watts.  Also there is a part two, what voltage?  In addition to the 120v models there is also a long life 130v models. 
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Erik Jerde on July 13, 2020, 10:50:55 pm
I just got 6 ETC S419 at an unbeatable price. I'm not sure whether to put 375, 575, or 750 watt bulbs in them. They may be overkill for my podcast studio as the room is 12x16 with 10 foot ceiling. I have dimmers available.

Thoughts on which bulb I might purchase? Sorry for the novice question.

Keep in mind that when you dim tungsten lamps (which is what these are) it changes the color temperature.  As you dim the lamp the kelvin color temperature will go down making the light more red/orange looking.  So you need to think about a couple things.  How much output do you need and at what color temperature.  You'll start out when full on at 3200K.  Dim it enough and you'll be closer to 2500K.  Unfortunately I'm not enough of a lighting guy to know how much you need in that space. 

Plus, if it's a podcast (audio) studio why does light matter?  I'd just slap up some LED fixtures (negligible heat) and call it done.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Jeff Lelko on July 13, 2020, 11:36:50 pm
Plus, if it's a podcast (audio) studio why does light matter?  I'd just slap up some LED fixtures (negligible heat) and call it done.

That thought definitely crossed my mind too.  If this is just general mood/ambient lighting then some LED ceiling lights and maybe a bit of accent lighting would be the right choice.  Heating aside, a 19 degree beam isn't going to light much in a room so small and probably be more of a nuisance than a benefit with such spotty results.  Tracy, do you have a specific intended purpose for the ellipsoidal-type fixtures that you bought? 
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Tracy Garner on July 14, 2020, 10:36:39 am
That thought definitely crossed my mind too.  If this is just general mood/ambient lighting then some LED ceiling lights and maybe a bit of accent lighting would be the right choice.  Heating aside, a 19 degree beam isn't going to light much in a room so small and probably be more of a nuisance than a benefit with such spotty results.  Tracy, do you have a specific intended purpose for the ellipsoidal-type fixtures that you bought?

The dimmer is capable of 4x600 watts 120v 30amp plug.


I am looking to trade a couple 19 degree lenses for wider beam at least 50 degrees.

Basically, I got these for the price of shipping from LA to ATL understanding the limited use at home. I have a few LEDs already to uplight the podcast area when I DJ.

The better use for these is:
Wedding DJ or other event - upsell a gobo on the wall
Comedy event or spoken word events -  Use them to light the comedian and the DJ or host
Podcast? - Sometimes people come over and use the space for talk interviews. I'm not sure even then putting that kind of beam directly at the talent is the way to go.

...edited to clarify its usually video podcast.

I think the 375 is a good start and easier on the electric bill too.




Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Jeff Lelko on July 14, 2020, 08:53:59 pm
The dimmer is capable of 4x600 watts 120v 30amp plug.

Unless the dimmer is rated for a constant full-load duty cycle such as certain dimmers from ETC and Leprecon I'd definitely stick with the 375w lamps.  Many of the cheaper (~$200ish) shoe box dimmers can tolerate the 575w load for a little while but tend not to last when being used for professional duty applications.

Otherwise, I think you're just going to have to play with it.  What you got is definitely the wrong tool for the job even if it was at the right price - you'll just have to see if you can shoehorn it enough to get a usable result.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Steven Cohen on July 16, 2020, 06:35:37 pm
ETC makes an LED retrofit for Source Four's. It's not cheap but juts wanted to make you aware in case it works for you. It seems like the retrofit would work for a hard to reach fixture where white light or only one color is needed.

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/507936-etc-s4wrd-x-led-retrofit-module-for-source-four-fixtures-with-no-connector

I just got 6 ETC S419 at an unbeatable price. I'm not sure whether to put 375, 575, or 750 watt bulbs in them. They may be overkill for my podcast studio as the room is 12x16 with 10 foot ceiling. I have dimmers available.

Thoughts on which bulb I might purchase? Sorry for the novice question.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Steven Cohen on September 24, 2020, 06:30:20 pm
ETC just came out with a RGBA retrofit for Source Fours,
https://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Lighting-Fixtures/S4WRD/S4WRD-C/Features.aspx


ETC makes an LED retrofit for Source Four's. It's not cheap but juts wanted to make you aware in case it works for you. It seems like the retrofit would work for a hard to reach fixture where white light or only one color is needed.

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/507936-etc-s4wrd-x-led-retrofit-module-for-source-four-fixtures-with-no-connector
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 24, 2020, 06:34:27 pm
Go with the 375's.

Thats a small room and they will get hot.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Don T. Williams on September 24, 2020, 07:38:22 pm
+1 on Tim's post.  I had a client that had 20 amp circuits with commercial grade quality brand 20A breakers.  The breakers would not tolerate four 575W lamps, even though they should have.  The dimming was 4 Leviton portable 4 channel packs.  575 X 4 = 2300 watts.  20 Amps at 120V = 2400 watts, so it should work, but those breakers wouldn't last 5 minutes.  Switching to 375 watt lamps saved the day and there was a barely perceptible difference in the illumination in this situation.
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Jeff Lelko on September 24, 2020, 08:23:49 pm
I had a client that had 20 amp circuits with commercial grade quality brand 20A breakers...

Two things come to mind with this - my guess is that the inrush current is what was causing the breakers to trip much sooner than expected, and the other has to do with “continuous duty” loading on a breaker.  Best practice is not to exceed 80% of a breaker’s rated capacity if the load will be applied in a “continuous” fashion - 3+hrs if I remember correctly unless the breaker is specifically designated for full-capacity duty cycle.  More than that can cause nuisance tripping, and my guess is that a combination of these factors (high momentary inrush plus near full capacity sustained) is what caused the problem. 

I saw the new LED retrofits as well.  Hopefully they’ll look good in person without any teething issues!
Title: Re: Source 4 bulbs
Post by: Nathan Riddle on September 25, 2020, 12:42:17 am
Fwiw, most breakers will work at 1x ampacity forever.

There is a curve for anything past that.

Don, I agree with Jeff it was either inrush or bad breakers.

https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?&p_enDocType=Catalog&p_File_Name=0730CT9801.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=0730CT9801