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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: duane massey on May 28, 2020, 01:15:44 pm

Title: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on May 28, 2020, 01:15:44 pm
Yep, Murphy lives in mt garage.....
Planned to use the XR18 tonight for the first time (live streaming), and I've been working with it for a week or so getting it set up. Went thru it one more time to verify all was good, and now the laptop is dropping the connection repeatedly. Here's the set-up:
Laptop, Win 7
Cat 5 to XR18

Pretty simple right?

I'm going to use our standard rig for tonight (Yamaha powered mixer) just because I'm really apprehensive about using a new rig under these circumstances. Any thoughts on what could be hapening?
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: JohnPinchin on May 28, 2020, 01:34:52 pm
You haven't knocked the connection switch and it's connecting via the internal wifi?
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: brian maddox on May 28, 2020, 01:45:40 pm
You haven't knocked the connection switch and it's connecting via the internal wifi?

Yeah, the connection switch would be the first thing i'd look at.  even if it's just moved a tiny bit and causing an issue.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Scott Bolt on May 28, 2020, 08:31:57 pm
Also try a new Ethernet cable.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: John L Nobile on May 29, 2020, 10:05:08 am
First thing I do is restart everything. Fixes things most of the time.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 08, 2020, 06:29:43 pm
Quick update: started over from scratch, STILL the same issue. Found this page, will try what they are suggesting. It would be nice if things actually just worked when you plugged it in, right?
https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Recording/Losing-connection-while-direct-hardwired-Wth/td-p/230327

Going to try this tonight or tomorrow. Wish me luck......
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 08, 2020, 07:51:12 pm
Have you set a static IP on both the mixer and the laptop? 
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Brian Adams on June 08, 2020, 09:52:11 pm
What's the IP of the mixer and laptop?

Since you don't have a DHCP server of any sort in the chain, I'm guessing the units are assigning themselves automatic IP addresses. If the address starts with 169, this is the case. Things can work that way, but it's usually spotty. A much more reliable way would be to assign a static IP to each unit, where each is identical except for the last octet. An example would be 192.168.1.x, where each unit has a different value for x, between 0 and 255. Since the lowest numbers are usually used by routers and other network hardware, I typically use 11 as my first address.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Sam Costa on June 08, 2020, 10:37:00 pm
Yep, Murphy lives in mt garage.....
Planned to use the XR18 tonight for the first time (live streaming), and I've been working with it for a week or so getting it set up. Went thru it one more time to verify all was good, and now the laptop is dropping the connection repeatedly. Here's the set-up:
Laptop, Win 7
Cat 5 to XR18

Pretty simple right?

I'm going to use our standard rig for tonight (Yamaha powered mixer) just because I'm really apprehensive about using a new rig under these circumstances. Any thoughts on what could be hapening?

Are you using the internal wifi router? If so, NEVER USE IT AGAIN!
Get yourself an external router and never have that problem every again. Going on 2+years of using 2 externals on my 2 - MR18's and have never had any connection loss issues.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 09, 2020, 11:15:08 am
Are you using the internal wifi router? If so, NEVER USE IT AGAIN!
Get yourself an external router and never have that problem every again. Going on 2+years of using 2 externals on my 2 - MR18's and have never had any connection loss issues.
I am NOT using it wireless. Cat 5 from Laptop to XR18. No router.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Lou Kohley on June 09, 2020, 11:58:02 am
I suspect this is an IP issue. Are you using the wifi built in to live stream?
I think the software maybe trying to use the other connection. Are you using two different devices? i.e. Tablet for mixing, computer for streaming?

LOU
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 09, 2020, 01:47:56 pm
Okay, a recap: I am NOT using anything wireless. I am NOT streaming anything. I am connecting the laptop to the mixer via a Cat5 cable. The laptop is sitting on top of the mixer. The set-up worked initially inside the house without any issues for several days. When I moved it into the garage (approx 30') it worked fine for the first day. From that point on the laptop loses connection to the mixer.
Nothing else is connected.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Joris Jans2 on June 09, 2020, 02:35:38 pm
don't you need a UTP Cross Cable when you connect a laptop directly to the XR18?

if you have a simple switch (preferably a unmanaged switch, such as a Netgear GS105 or equivalent) you can put that between laptop and console to check.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 09, 2020, 02:54:56 pm
don't you need a UTP Cross Cable when you connect a laptop directly to the XR18?

if you have a simple switch (preferably a unmanaged switch, such as a Netgear GS105 or equivalent) you can put that between laptop and console to check.
I am using the cable that came with the XR18, and it worked perfectly at first.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: brian maddox on June 09, 2020, 04:27:04 pm
Okay, a recap: I am NOT using anything wireless. I am NOT streaming anything. I am connecting the laptop to the mixer via a Cat5 cable. The laptop is sitting on top of the mixer. The set-up worked initially inside the house without any issues for several days. When I moved it into the garage (approx 30') it worked fine for the first day. From that point on the laptop loses connection to the mixer.
Nothing else is connected.

Dumb question probably, but does your laptop have two ethernet ports? i do know this is highly unlikely.

Just looking for anything that changed between one location and the other.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 09, 2020, 11:31:04 pm
I guess I'm just too old for this. Set it up again, ready to try some different things, and it has worked flawlessly now for 6 hours. I am really confused.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 10, 2020, 02:34:17 am
I guess I'm just too old for this. Set it up again, ready to try some different things, and it has worked flawlessly now for 6 hours. I am really confused.

Of course it's working.  While you weren't looking, elves (or maybe Etta James) paid a visit and Got Your Mojo Workin'.  The next time, it will fail.

And failure is important because what I'm about to suggest is using WireShark to sniff the traffic between your computer and mixer.  With an apology to Dr Hook, we need a Gen-u-ine Networking Guru to show us a better way... maybe Scott Holtzman?  Looking at the traffic in WireShark maybe he can determine why the connection drops.

My list of questions is likely redundant to things you've already checked, I'm sure, so I'll offer this:  I like & buy Lenovo ThinkPad laptops.  Quality refurbs show up routinely and since most of *my* audio applications don't need ultra fast CPUs or mountains of RAM, life is usually good.  Usually.  One ThinkPad I use only for Audio Architect and walk in/set change music has developed an annoying habit of disconnecting from the wired audio data network (no Dante, closed network).  I have the WiFi radio physically turned off but the computer acts like it's looking for a network.  Can be 250' of CAT5e (FOH to amps) or a 10' CAT5e patch cable in ampland... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  I *think* I've tracked it down to the RJ45 connector on the computer...  The only thing I use this for at showtime is system telemetry (amp output, clip status, limit status etc) so I think on the next gig I might possibly, hope to do sometime this year... is to replace the CAT5e with WiFi and see if it stays connected.

Or maybe we need a good spell from the House of Voodoo...
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Robert Lunceford on June 10, 2020, 04:18:12 am
Yep, Murphy lives in mt garage.....
Planned to use the XR18 tonight for the first time (live streaming), and I've been working with it for a week or so getting it set up. Went thru it one more time to verify all was good, and now the laptop is dropping the connection repeatedly. Here's the set-up:
Laptop, Win 7
Cat 5 to XR18

Pretty simple right?

I'm going to use our standard rig for tonight (Yamaha powered mixer) just because I'm really apprehensive about using a new rig under these circumstances. Any thoughts on what could be hapening?

Could be the NIC card on either unit.
Try opening up both units and reseating the NIC cards. Clean the connectors with deoxit or 99% alcohol.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Chrysander 'C.R.' Young on June 10, 2020, 12:39:22 pm
I guess I'm just too old for this. Set it up again, ready to try some different things, and it has worked flawlessly now for 6 hours. I am really confused.

I work as an Network admin by day and suspect I may know the root of your issue.  If your wifi was enabled on the laptop and your wifi adapter made a connection and pulled a valid IP address, your computer may have been trying to use that connection to talk to the world instead of the wired connection.  This would be especially true if you had the poor luck of getting an IP address range via wifi that was in the same range as the one you are using on the LAN connection to the XR18. 

My suggestion: disable the wifi adapter on your primary wired device.  Go wired from the XR18 and the host laptop to an all-in-one wifi/router/switch boxes (I like Netgear stuff that supports AC spec) and you should be gtg.  You can have a secondary device on wifi as well for convenience.

Does your XR18 have a statically assigned IP address?  On your wired laptops, what are your network settings?  Do you have a gateway assigned on the wired adapter?


Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 10, 2020, 01:01:04 pm
My thanks to everyone for the responses. I am just going to admit defeat and find someone younger and smarter locally to help me with this. I'm good with analog stuff, and not afraid of audio- and lighting-related software, but I am totally out of my comfort zone when it comes to networking or anything under the hood.

Getting old is a great life-goal, but the side-effects can suck.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Alec Spence on June 10, 2020, 01:15:02 pm
My thanks to everyone for the responses. I am just going to admit defeat and find someone younger and smarter locally to help me with this. I'm good with analog stuff, and not afraid of audio- and lighting-related software, but I am totally out of my comfort zone when it comes to networking or anything under the hood.
The requirement to have at least a rudimentary understanding of networking for lunchbox mixers makes them a breeze for some people and a nightmare for others.

I'd agee with others that it'd be worth turning off the WiFi on your laptop, to be sure.

And, though you want to avoid additional kit, a cheap router sitting in the middle of this would make the configuration much easier to interpret and debug.

My last point - you sure you haven't plugged into the Ultranet port by mistake?  I did this while setting up for a gig once.  I finally twigged after I'd power cycled the router, swapped network cables, power cycled the tablet I was using.  I felt a complete dick when I realised!  As I never use Ultranet, a bit of tape over that socket saves me from making that mistake again.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Kemper Watson on June 10, 2020, 02:14:02 pm
My thanks to everyone for the responses. I am just going to admit defeat and find someone younger and smarter locally to help me with this. I'm good with analog stuff, and not afraid of audio- and lighting-related software, but I am totally out of my comfort zone when it comes to networking or anything under the hood.

Getting old is a great life-goal, but the side-effects can suck.


I have a network guy that can fix things remotely . He's a lifesaver. Always answers and knows my rig
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Brian Adams on June 10, 2020, 05:45:21 pm
You never answered our questions about whether or not you'd set a static IP for both units. I'm assuming you haven't, and that they're operating on automatic IP addresses, which isn't going to be reliable. You either need to put these on something with a DHCP server, like a typical home router, or assign static IP addresses if you'd like to use them without any extra equipment.

I think the lack of stable IP addresses is the direct cause of your problem, and I don't see any indication that you've taken any steps to resolve it.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Riley Casey on June 10, 2020, 07:05:50 pm
Down load an IP sniffing app ( IP Scanner is a Mac version ) and see if the app finds the Behringer.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 10, 2020, 11:27:58 pm
You never answered our questions about whether or not you'd set a static IP for both units. I'm assuming you haven't, and that they're operating on automatic IP addresses, which isn't going to be reliable. You either need to put these on something with a DHCP server, like a typical home router, or assign static IP addresses if you'd like to use them without any extra equipment.

I think the lack of stable IP addresses is the direct cause of your problem, and I don't see any indication that you've taken any steps to resolve it.
Tried to do it, obviously did it wrong, as nothing would work. I am willing to accept the fact that I just don't know enough to fix the problem, so I will call on my circle of frineds here in Houston and find someone with better computer skills. I really appreciate the advice.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: duane massey on June 11, 2020, 09:57:46 am
Hopefully this is my final update: Dug out a Netgear router from my pile of stuff. Hooked it up between the laptop and the mixer. It has been working flawlessly for 16 hours.

Thanks again for EVERYBODY who posted here. I learned (once again) how little I know about modern tech, but at least (hopefully) I can use my 12-month old new toy!
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Andrew Hollis on June 11, 2020, 10:27:59 am
Hopefully this is my final update: Dug out a Netgear router from my pile of stuff. Hooked it up between the laptop and the mixer. It has been working flawlessly for 16 hours.

This suggests that the original issue was simply an IP config issue that could be easily resolved.

Perhaps the router is acting as DHCP server, or it has simply randomly landed on the correct subnet; neither of which seem very reliable to me if it's not known why it is working.

The best solution could be arrived at without this random router, by providing the following information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4XUxMfbCoc
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Alec Spence on June 11, 2020, 07:05:28 pm
Hopefully this is my final update: Dug out a Netgear router from my pile of stuff. Hooked it up between the laptop and the mixer. It has been working flawlessly for 16 hours.
Glad to hear it - I was pretty confident that would get you working again unless you had a hardware problem.

I understand that you'd probably prefer the simplicity of simply laptop -> cable -> mixer, however...

To get this working you probably need to tweak a little more on the mixer and/or your laptop, as has been discussed, but is not always obvious what to do.  However, those settings may cause you problems if you later want to use an external router/access point. 

By using the external router, you also have a wireless connection, so you can hop on with a phone/tablet and enjoy the benefits of wireless control, while still having the resilience of the wired connection.  Admittedly, this may not be a benefit if you're doing no more than live streaming (i.e., not gigging), but worth having the flexibility.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Dan Mortensen on June 14, 2020, 04:34:45 pm
Hopefully this is my final update: Dug out a Netgear router from my pile of stuff. Hooked it up between the laptop and the mixer. It has been working flawlessly for 16 hours.

I wonder if this is related to the problem that I and others had using Airport Expresses with Behringer gear. Sometimes it would connect, sometimes it wouldn't, and sometimes when it wouldn't connect just letting it sit would result in it randomly connecting at some point.

Putting a switch in between ApExp and console, which I think is essentially what you've done between computer and console, solves it instantly and keeps it solved.

I've wondered if the Behringer interface behind the RJ45 has some kind of design flaw with impedance or something analogous, where it wants to see something other than what the Apple gear (or whatever) has. But I don't have the smarts or measurement gear to know what to look for or how to tell if it is or isn't there.

Regardless, glad you got it to work.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Andrew Hollis on June 14, 2020, 05:17:33 pm
I wonder if this is related to the problem that I and others had using Airport Expresses with Behringer gear. Sometimes it would connect, sometimes it wouldn't, and sometimes when it wouldn't connect just letting it sit would result in it randomly connecting at some point.

The Apple AirPort Express A1264 is not straightforward to configure for gear interconnection because it does not have a LAN port, nor the ability to create a local network, it just has a single WAN port. It's meant to be connected directly to a modem, or used as just an AP, and I think those modes confuse many in the setup.

I believe that's the source of most of the confusion when using the AirPort Express. The 'newer' A1392 version is a better choice because it has an independent switched LAN port.
Title: Re: XR18 issue
Post by: Dan Mortensen on June 15, 2020, 04:42:49 pm
The Apple AirPort Express A1264 is not straightforward to configure for gear interconnection because it does not have a LAN port, nor the ability to create a local network, it just has a single WAN port.

I have a couple of those that stopped being useful or fully functional quite a few years ago, long before the X32 was introduced.

The 'newer' A1392 version is a better choice because it has an independent switched LAN port.

That is the only version I have ever configured for use with the X/M 32 /XAir mixers. Everything I've ever said about this subject is about that one.

It, too, is no longer made but you can still exorbitantly buy refurbs on Amazon, which I haven't done. The ones I have are still working adequately.