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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Debbie Dunkley on May 27, 2020, 02:21:01 pm

Title: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 27, 2020, 02:21:01 pm
I will be providing sound and generators for a smallish show this coming weekend...I hope everyone behaves...

Because of this I went on my usual Googling trip and I have a question.
I will be using a Yamaha Ef3000 (PA) and a Yamaha EF2000 (backline). Both generators have open neutrals.
If I will be grounding my generators (copper rod and together), would there be any benefit to me to use neutral/ground plugs ( like the one Mike Sokol recommends) to bond them to their frames?
 bonding plug (https://www.campingworld.com/portable-generator-bonding-plug-118090.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn7j2BRDrARIsAHJkxmzjbfs-Ln0ndA8rQfmfjaUR59SnZxXVwMvtC0dlyrBsaZbYrWqsfxYaAj_JEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: frank kayser on May 27, 2020, 03:45:00 pm
I will be providing sound and generators for a smallish show this coming weekend...I hope everyone behaves...

Because of this I went on my usual Googling trip and I have a question.
I will be using a Yamaha Ef3000 (PA) and a Yamaha EF2000 (backline). Both generators have open neutrals.
If I will be grounding my generators (copper rod and together), would there be any benefit to me to use neutral/ground plugs ( like the one Mike Sokol recommends) to bond them to their frames?
 bonding plug (https://www.campingworld.com/portable-generator-bonding-plug-118090.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn7j2BRDrARIsAHJkxmzjbfs-Ln0ndA8rQfmfjaUR59SnZxXVwMvtC0dlyrBsaZbYrWqsfxYaAj_JEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Quick question, Debbie
Have you used the grounding plug in the past?  Ever?
I know I've hooked to 120v gens where I had 60v on hot, and 60v on neutral.  My Honda 1000 is also wired that way.  If it is, grounding plug should not be used.
Congrats on openiong a show!
frank
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 27, 2020, 08:09:42 pm
Quick question, Debbie
Have you used the grounding plug in the past?  Ever?
I know I've hooked to 120v gens where I had 60v on hot, and 60v on neutral.  My Honda 1000 is also wired that way.  If it is, grounding plug should not be used.
Congrats on openiong a show!
frank

Hi Frank - no I have never used a grounding plug.
I came across the threads discussing this on different forums and discovered this device. I took it seriously when I read it was Mike who developed it.
The Osha fact sheet document I have states that no grounding rod is necessary with a generator IF it is bonded neutral AND the receptacles on the generator are directly used.
This made me think that even though I would normally use the rod and connect the grounds between the 2 genies, adding the bonding plug would be a step up on safety - no? OR...... maybe even...as per the Osha doc, no rod necessary when using the bonding plug???


"Grounding Requirements for Portable and Vehicle-mounted Generators

Under the following conditions, OSHA directs (29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)) that the frame of a portable generator need not be grounded (connected to earth) and that the frame may serve as the ground (in place of the earth):

The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator and/or cordand plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, § 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(A), and
The noncurrent-carrying metal parts of equipment (such as the fuel tank, the internal combustion engine, and the generator’s housing) are bonded to the generator frame, and the equipment grounding conductor terminals (of the power receptacles that are a part of [mounted on] the generator) are bonded to the generator frame, § 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(B).
Thus, rather than connect to a grounding electrode system, such as a driven ground rod, the generator’s frame replaces the grounding electrode.

If these conditions do not exist, then a grounding electrode, such as a ground rod, is required.

If the portable generator is providing electric power to a structure by connection via a transfer switch to a structure (home, office, shop, trailer, or similar) it must be connected to a grounding electrode system, such as a driven ground rod. The transfer switch must be approved for the use and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions by a qualified electrician.

Grounding requirements for generators connected via transfer switches are covered by Article 250 of the National Electrical Code (NEC)."

Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: frank kayser on May 27, 2020, 08:43:38 pm
One thing you can do to see if using a neutral-ground bonding plug is safe to use.
To check,  take a measurement between H-G, N-G, H-N.
H-G should read 120v
N-G should read zero.
H-N should read 120.v


If the reading is as above, a neutral-ground bonding plug can be safely used on that genny.
Do this on both gennys.



The Honda I have runs:
H-G should read 60v
N-G should read 60v.
H-N should read 120v
It is not safe to use a neutral-ground bonding plug on this setup.
Most gens are not set this way.


Mostly grounding rods are to dissipate near-strike lightning, as I understand it.
As far as what The Code says, or what the local jurisdiction says is WAY above my pay grade.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 27, 2020, 09:16:09 pm
One thing you can do to see if using a neutral-ground bonding plug is safe to use.
To check,  take a measurement between H-G, N-G, H-N.
H-G should read 120v
N-G should read zero.
H-N should read 120.v


If the reading is as above, a neutral-ground bonding plug can be safely used on that genny.
Do this on both gennys.



The Honda I have runs:
H-G should read 60v
N-G should read 60v.
H-N should read 120v
It is not safe to use a neutral-ground bonding plug on this setup.
Most gens are not set this way.


Mostly grounding rods are to dissipate near-strike lightning, as I understand it.
As far as what The Code says, or what the local jurisdiction says is WAY above my pay grade.

I will start them up tomorrow and test them just to be sure even though the manufacturer states they are floating neutral models.
I have a receptacle tester I can use which will indicate the wiring status of the units.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Mike Monte on May 28, 2020, 08:12:54 am
I will start them up tomorrow and test them just to be sure even though the manufacturer states they are floating neutral models.
I have a receptacle tester I can use which will indicate the wiring status of the units.

FWIW: I have two Honda eu3000is generators and searched the "floating ground issue" over the winter.
Since my units have always worked well for my rigs/applications I never thought to check their ground status.
After reading much about floating neutrals (there is alot of info, mostly on RV forums, one such: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=86203.15;wap) I decided to check using a basic 3-wire receptacle tester.
Sure enough, one of the yellow lights (I can't remember which one) "flickered"....as I understand, indicating a floating N-G
so
I made a N-G bond plug (really easy to do), plugged it in, and no more flickering.
I assembled one of my PA's (using the gen) in the back yard and all worked well...

..mind you, my PA had always worked well using a single gen but last fall I added a second gen (same model) with the parallel wires for a larger gig (originally scheduled for last month [sob]) and wanted more certainty about grounding.

...this raises a question: Is there such a thing as too much grounding??

Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Chris Hindle on May 28, 2020, 08:40:12 am

...this raises a question: Is there such a thing as too much grounding??

After someone gets bit from not enough grounding, it's a little too late.
Just sayin.
Mo is better. Over the top may be just about right.
Chris.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Steven Cohen on May 28, 2020, 08:46:56 am
Frank,

My takeaway from a discussion a few years back was that a generator with a floating neutral, one can use a ground to neutral bridge plug. Please correct me if I am wrong but I think you are describing a floating neutral with your Honda generator where you measured "H-G should read 60v
N-G should read 60v.
H-N should read 120v"

 I understood (possibly incorrectly) that if one measures H-G should read 120v, N-G should read zero, and H-N should read 120.v then the generator has a bonded neutral and a ground to neutral bridge plug should not be used. In addition, if a bonded neutral generator is connected to a home's load center, the bonded neutral should be disconnected in the generator.

Here is a link to the discussion,

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,164927.0.html



 
One thing you can do to see if using a neutral-ground bonding plug is safe to use.
To check,  take a measurement between H-G, N-G, H-N.
H-G should read 120v
N-G should read zero.
H-N should read 120.v


If the reading is as above, a neutral-ground bonding plug can be safely used on that genny.
Do this on both gennys.



The Honda I have runs:
H-G should read 60v
N-G should read 60v.
H-N should read 120v
It is not safe to use a neutral-ground bonding plug on this setup.
Most gens are not set this way.


Mostly grounding rods are to dissipate near-strike lightning, as I understand it.
As far as what The Code says, or what the local jurisdiction says is WAY above my pay grade.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 28, 2020, 11:06:16 am
I made a plug yesterday and will check the gennys today using my receptacle tester. If they show floating N - which I am convinced they will - then I will try the plug and make sure all works well.
reply #1 in the PSW thread Steven references would indicate that it is in fact a BAD idea to connect a generator with floating neutral like the Yamaha EF3000 (in a standalone fashion) to a ground rod - I did read that it is UNNECESSARY.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 28, 2020, 11:55:19 am
Just tried both generators (actually all 3 - I have 2 of the EF2000 also which can be in parallel).... tester showed 'open ground' on all 3 generators which is exactly what I expected.  I then plugged in my bonding plug and the tester showed 'correct'. I believe it works and as long as I connect the grounds to the gennys as I always do, then I assume I only need the one bonding plug.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 28, 2020, 01:53:58 pm
I have another quick question for you guys regarding generators and power....
Is there a power advantage either way to using either of the available outputs on the generators:
1) The 2 NEMA 20 amp receptacles ...or
2) The 30 amp twist lock receptacle and then splitting 2 ways.
Running amps total 23a.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Mike Monte on May 28, 2020, 02:13:31 pm
I have another quick question for you guys regarding generators and power....
Is there a power advantage either way to using either of the available outputs on the generators:
1) The 2 NEMA 20 amp receptacles ...or
2) The 30 amp twist lock receptacle and then splitting 2 ways.
Running amps total 23a.

My eu3000is generator is rated at 23 amps.
There are two circuit breakers: one is labeled 20 and the other is labeled 30.  I assume that they are for their appropriate outlets.

I always go from the 30 amp outlet and split from there to have the extra 3a available.

..this is the way I do it and it works for me...

Your unit may be much the same.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 28, 2020, 02:22:15 pm
My eu3000is generator is rated at 23 amps.
There are two circuit breakers: one is labeled 20 and the other is labeled 30.  I assume that they are for their appropriate outlets.

I always go from the 30 amp outlet and split from there to have the extra 3a available.

..this is the way I do it and it works for me...

Your unit may be much the same.

I have the pigtail 30amp>nema triple tap so I can use this method. I tend to choose the NEMAs because I have 10AWG 50ft cables which eliminates another connection if I use the pigtail adaptor. I suppose NOT splitting the outs and using the 30amp gives me more flexibility on power draw though.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Mike Monte on May 29, 2020, 06:36:54 am
I will be providing sound and generators for a smallish show this coming weekend...[/url]

Congrats on actually getting a show (smallish or otherwise) with all that's going on!

I'm up here "hunkered down" in Massachusetts, a Covid hotspot......no shows (or much anything else social-wise) for the foreseeable future.....:(

Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Mike Sokol on May 29, 2020, 07:50:20 am
I will be providing sound and generators for a smallish show this coming weekend...I hope everyone behaves...

Because of this I went on my usual Googling trip and I have a question.
I will be using a Yamaha Ef3000 (PA) and a Yamaha EF2000 (backline). Both generators have open neutrals.
If I will be grounding my generators (copper rod and together), would there be any benefit to me to use neutral/ground plugs ( like the one Mike Sokol recommends) to bond them to their frames?
 bonding plug (https://www.campingworld.com/portable-generator-bonding-plug-118090.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn7j2BRDrARIsAHJkxmzjbfs-Ln0ndA8rQfmfjaUR59SnZxXVwMvtC0dlyrBsaZbYrWqsfxYaAj_JEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)

I believe that both of the generators you mention are indeed floating neutral, so you can safely bond the neutral to the generator frame/ground by using a bonding plug. I consider this best practice for any stage since it also allows you to confirm all stringers and quad boxes on stage as having a proper ground using a simple 3-light outlet tester. And while there's lots of loopholes about running generators without a grounding rod, for any shows I've done with a trailer generator we were always required by the AHJ to put in a grounding rod and bond it to the generator frame/ground. This is largely to reduce lightning damage in the event of a nearby ground strike, but it also pulls the local ground plane you're creating close to earth potential, which is a good thing.

In addition, I always bond any metal stage and steps to the generator grounding point. This is really the only way to make a stage totally safe from shock. Without that bonding its possible to have different voltages on the chassis of the backline amplifiers as well as microphone and the metal railing/steps on the stage. I had that once and it measured 90 volts AC, which would have been quite shocking for the musicians and a contract breaker.   

However, the main questions is what do you really need to do for a few small inverter generators? I would say at the very least (just to protect your equipment and prevent ground loop hum) you will want to bond the two generator grounds together. And bonding the generator ground to the metal stage does help reduce 60-Hz hum from guitars and such since it provides a local ground plane at a common potential.

I consider a lot of this as CYA engineering since you may not really need it unless something goes wrong and an artist gets shocked and hurt. At that point it would be good for you to be able to show that you used best practices for grounding and bonding, mitigating your own blame (and liability). 
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 29, 2020, 10:23:28 am
I believe that both of the generators you mention are indeed floating neutral, so you can safely bond the neutral to the generator frame/ground by using a bonding plug. I consider this best practice for any stage since it also allows you to confirm all stringers and quad boxes on stage as having a proper ground using a simple 3-light outlet tester. And while there's lots of loopholes about running generators without a grounding rod, for any shows I've done with a trailer generator we were always required by the AHJ to put in a grounding rod and bond it to the generator frame/ground. This is largely to reduce lightning damage in the event of a nearby ground strike, but it also pulls the local ground plane you're creating close to earth potential, which is a good thing.

In addition, I always bond any metal stage and steps to the generator grounding point. This is really the only way to make a stage totally safe from shock. Without that bonding its possible to have different voltages on the chassis of the backline amplifiers as well as microphone and the metal railing/steps on the stage. I had that once and it measured 90 volts AC, which would have been quite shocking for the musicians and a contract breaker.   

However, the main questions is what do you really need to do for a few small inverter generators? I would say at the very least (just to protect your equipment and prevent ground loop hum) you will want to bond the two generator grounds together. And bonding the generator ground to the metal stage does help reduce 60-Hz hum from guitars and such since it provides a local ground plane at a common potential.

I consider a lot of this as CYA engineering since you may not really need it unless something goes wrong and an artist gets shocked and hurt. At that point it would be good for you to be able to show that you used best practices for grounding and bonding, mitigating your own blame (and liability).

Thanks Mike.
Yes - CYA is the most important thing.
There will be no metal stage at the show - the band was to play on grass but now due to the forecast they will play in a 3 car garage.
The reason we are using generators is because the owners of the property are renovating and say the shore power is a bit 'iffy'.
I am hoping there will be an obvious place to ground but if not I'll use a rod.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on May 29, 2020, 11:53:41 am
Thanks Mike.
Yes - CYA is the most important thing.
There will be no metal stage at the show - the band was to play on grass but now due to the forecast they will play in a 3 car garage.
The reason we are using generators is because the owners of the property are renovating and say the shore power is a bit 'iffy'.
I am hoping there will be an obvious place to ground but if not I'll use a rod.

If you're in a 3-car garage, there's a good chance that's where the building's main electrical panel ("service entrance") is. If so, there's probably a ground rod just outside the wall opposite the panel that you could bond to.

Bonding to the building's electrical system ground is a really good idea as you will bring your system's reference ground potential to the same as that of the building's grounding system. In the event that someone plugs something into a garage outlet (even though they say they won't, don't trust people not to!), not having that bond could create a voltage potential between devices.

Also, if the main panel is there, any chance of getting power tied directly into that, so you don't need the generators?
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 29, 2020, 01:30:21 pm
I have the pigtail 30amp>nema triple tap so I can use this method. I tend to choose the NEMAs because I have 10AWG 50ft cables which eliminates another connection if I use the pigtail adaptor. I suppose NOT splitting the outs and using the 30amp gives me more flexibility on power draw though.
I have a heavy gage 30a to 30a extention and plug my pigtail into that.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 29, 2020, 01:49:47 pm
If you're in a 3-car garage, there's a good chance that's where the building's main electrical panel ("service entrance") is. If so, there's probably a ground rod just outside the wall opposite the panel that you could bond to.

Bonding to the building's electrical system ground is a really good idea as you will bring your system's reference ground potential to the same as that of the building's grounding system. In the event that someone plugs something into a garage outlet (even though they say they won't, don't trust people not to!), not having that bond could create a voltage potential between devices.

Also, if the main panel is there, any chance of getting power tied directly into that, so you don't need the generators?
Maybe - that would be nice and save me a job. However, I am not sure what the 'iffy' part is concerning power at the meter - they didn't elaborate and also I have never had to 'tie-in' to a main panel so not sure what to do there.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 29, 2020, 01:52:02 pm
I have a heavy gage 30a to 30a extention and plug my pigtail into that.

I'm going to use the 30a pigtail that has a triple tap and use the 10AWG extensions into the garage from there. There is a window apparently in the garage and I'm going to see if I can run the cables through that and use some foam to seal the window gap.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 29, 2020, 02:06:20 pm
A few months  ago I came across this cable in the garage that I had with my old frame generator years ago but obviously I must have kept the cable when I sold the genny.
Can I use this with any generator that has the duplex 120v receptacles? Any advantage?

Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Steven Cohen on May 30, 2020, 09:54:39 am
Debbie,

I use the 30 Amp Nema L5-30P twist lock lock with 75' of 10 AWG on my Yamaha EF3000iSEB as my main feeder cable. I have a quad box on the end with two duplexes that are individually breakered at 20 Amps. My advantage of going with the 30 Amp connection over the 20 Amp duplex on the generator is that I need 75' of cable to reach the place I need power. By using the 30 amp twist lock I can use 10 AWG wire. I would not be able to use 10 AWG with a NEMA 5-20P.

As far as any additional power advantages of using the 30 Amp connector, my generator is limited to around 2800 watts using just the 30 Amp connector or using a combination of the 20 Amp and 30 Amp connections. Some generators are different where the current is breakered on both the 20 Amp and 30 Amp individually so your generator may be different.

For me, the main advantage of using the 30 Amp connection is that I can use a larger wire size for the feeder cable


 
A few months  ago I came across this cable in the garage that I had with my old frame generator years ago but obviously I must have kept the cable when I sold the genny.
Can I use this with any generator that has the duplex 120v receptacles? Any advantage?
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 01, 2020, 01:11:14 am
I used the 30 amp pigtail into a 10 awg 50ft on the EF3000 and powered most of the stage on that one - the 2 guitar backline amps, pedals etc got  their power from one of my EF2000's using 2 cables from the Nema receptacles.
Used house ground, connected grounds on both gennys and plugged in my bonding plug. Felt pretty safe to me! Thanks peeps.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Mike Monte on June 01, 2020, 08:35:49 am
Used house ground
Please clarify
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 01, 2020, 02:28:06 pm
Please clarify

The actual grounding rod to the house.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Steve-White on June 01, 2020, 07:19:19 pm
^  Well done.  I picked up a Honda EB2800i for smaller outdoor jobs.  Used it for a garden wedding small PA and walkway lights.  Works well, very quiet and easy to move around.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 01, 2020, 08:32:47 pm
^  Well done.  I picked up a Honda EB2800i for smaller outdoor jobs.  Used it for a garden wedding small PA and walkway lights.  Works well, very quiet and easy to move around.

Nice. I'm seeing more and more open frame inverter generators - much easier to afford  with only a few db more than the enclosed inverter style.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 01, 2020, 10:52:11 pm
I just remembered something from saturday that perhaps someone could explain.

Before I connected the first generator to the house ground, I wanted to check each generator with my neutral bonding plug first.  I connected the generator grounds together then I plugged in the neutral bonding plug into the first generator. I checked my receptacle tester and I got 2 yellow lights so all was good on genny 1. However, I tested the second generator with the tester and although the ground was connected to the first,  it still showed open neutral - 1 yellow light....
I pulled the bonding plug from the first genny and plugged it in the 2nd one directly  and  it showed grounded neutral.
I read that I should only need one bonding plug if the generators have their grounds connected.
I went on to connect to the ground rod as an extra safety measure anyway.

Do I need to make 2 more bonding plugs for when I run all 3 generators?
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Steve-White on June 02, 2020, 01:38:09 am
Nice. I'm seeing more and more open frame inverter generators - much easier to afford  with only a few db more than the enclosed inverter style.
I picked open frame thinking - easier to pack in truck, can stack on it, will probably run cooler, large gas tank & easy access for maintenance.  I used a 100' run of 12ga to power the small PA and put the 60" flat cart (used for moving equipment) on it's side in front of the genny.  There was open space behind it, couldn't hear it at all any time in the evening.

I wasn't initially a big fan of inverters because of the cost.  Reading some of your comments on how you are setup got me thinking about it.  I have 9KW & a 13KW regular gas rigs.  I'll probably add a mid size inverter in the 5-7KW range to the mix.

How the inverters manage the engine RPM, based upon load demand makes them superior in applications where you need quiet.  It's not about all that fluff of "clean sine wave" for electronics.  My other generators run electronics just fine.  It's about engine management and noise control.  For PA uses they definitely have a place for smaller operators.
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on June 02, 2020, 12:47:20 pm
I just remembered something from saturday that perhaps someone could explain.

Before I connected the first generator to the house ground, I wanted to check each generator with my neutral bonding plug first.  I connected the generator grounds together then I plugged in the neutral bonding plug into the first generator. I checked my receptacle tester and I got 2 yellow lights so all was good on genny 1. However, I tested the second generator with the tester and although the ground was connected to the first,  it still showed open neutral - 1 yellow light....
I pulled the bonding plug from the first genny and plugged it in the 2nd one directly  and  it showed grounded neutral.
I read that I should only need one bonding plug if the generators have their grounds connected.
I went on to connect to the ground rod as an extra safety measure anyway.

Do I need to make 2 more bonding plugs for when I run all 3 generators?

If you are not using parallel kits, then yes-otherwise the neutrals are separate.  Sometimes it helps to draw yourself a picture. (At least that's what I do :) )
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Frank Koenig on June 02, 2020, 01:28:36 pm
Sometimes it helps to draw yourself a picture. (At least that's what I do :) )

Me too. Draw the picture, then verify it with the Ohmmeter (power off) and Voltmeter (power on). Once you have a picture you're confident in you can think about all the failure modes (shorts, opens, overcurrent) and their effect on safety.

I've been drawing pictures of electrical puzzles both large and small for ~55 years. No shame in it. -F
Title: Re: Generators and grounding and bonding etc etc etc ..... again....
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 02, 2020, 03:11:32 pm
If you are not using parallel kits, then yes-otherwise the neutrals are separate.  Sometimes it helps to draw yourself a picture. (At least that's what I do :) )

Thanks Stephen - I'll make 2 more just to be safe. I can parallel my 2 smaller units but just in case I used them all separately at any point I'll have one for each generator.